Thoughts on old school versus new amps?

The reason I ask this I had a older onkyo for years since the late 80s finally it went I bought a harman kardon hk 3490 the onkyo seemed to blow this new amp away even though the hk is 120 per channel where as the onkyo was 60 and to me the onkyo sounded better so I have looked into what some had said on here on another thread of mine and also went to a shop and listened to some new marantzs and even a new onkyo gotta say im not too impressed does not mean I cannot be impressed my friend has a carver 125 watt amp from the late 90s to me sounds better than the hk as well my cousin has a vintage pioneer that sounds great but its only 35 watts per channel any input could be helpful here and I have been looking at tube amps watts the difference in class a watts compared to others??????

There are so many variables and ways components can interact with one another. I am not sure if you are talking about a receiver or an integrated amp. When you say amp and I do not know the model numbers of your equipment without looking it up I am not really sure what you have. I also do not know your sources and speakers. A receiver, integrated amp or preamp and power amp can react differently with different speakers.

I checked your profile and you have no equipment listed. The more information you provide the better answers we can give. Some speakers are hard to drive and some electronics do not have good power supplies to really drive a speaker. HK usually have good power supplies. Of course we also do not know how large a room you are trying to fill with sound and the efficiency of your speakers. Tell us more.

got ya well I have right now polk monitor 50 series speakers which im not crazy about at all the hk is a integrated amp but so was my onkyo? I know these speakers suck but they sounded better when the onkyo was hooked up to them I have a pioneer pl 518 turn table I spin my wax with I bought a pair of psb t6 speakers but I didn't pick them up yet

In fact other than the advent of class D, amplifier technology hasn't changed all that much in the last 50 years since class AB solid state became predominant. There have been some improvements in the quality of components, (i.e. notably capacitors and integrated circuits). These improvement have improved sound and made components more affordable; (not necessarily better & cheaper at the same time).

There have been sound difference in amps of every era, but in my strictly personal opinion the attraction for some the old amps -- and tube amps, old or new -- is the common preference for a warmer, somewhat "fatter" sound than is strictly accurate.

well if you had to pick the Harman kardon hk3490 or a old carver tfm 25 which would you guys choose I hear the carvers have a somewhat tubey sound

I personally would rather have the HK. Carver is mostly unreliable. As JohnMichael mentioned there are a lot of variables. The HK may be in a lower price range compared to what the Onkyo was in it's day. There's no blanket statement which is better vintage versus current amps. This could be a different story if you are talking receiver, today's receivers are mostly for home theater and most do not emphasize stereo listening or have to cut corners some where to meet a price, with home theater they cram a lot into a receiver. There are a few stereo only receivers but they cost. You might try looking around for some used Adcom which are generally a good value used. Same with Parasound.

I am looking on ebay for a used parasound classic

Check out AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community for used power amps. There are some good deals on Vincent, Cary, Arcam, Primare and Rotel amps under $1K right now. The Vincent monoblocks are a great deal. There is also a Belles Hot Rod 150A which is an excellent amp, better than a Parasound Classic.

John, did you buy an amp?

I did buy a jolida jd302b but the kid wanted me to pay outside of the audiogon website he seemed really shaky so im back to square one it seems he wanted me to do a money transfer that would've negated any protection I would've got but I do have my hk up for sale there why? did you see something somewhere I think to after I went and listened to a couple newer amps a Marantz and a rega and a block im not really sure if im digging the sound don't get me wrong they are not bad but im still comparing it to me old onkyo which my cousin got fixed for a mere 45 bucks lol I should've gotten it fixed lol I did stop by a friends house who has a carver tfm 25 I know many people here dismayed the carver lol but it did blow away the newer amps I did listen to that particular amp is 225 watts per channel at 8 ohms I thought it sounded great especially I wasn't sold on the new Marantz or the rega the block to me was the best sounding out of those 3 I asked my buddy if he had any trouble with the carver the only thing he had happen was one of the lights burned out on one of the vu meters he bought a spare on ebay for 15 dollars anyone want to make me a deal on the hk its listed on audiogon lol

Give a listen to Parasound, Peachtree and Rotel amps. You could use the HK as a preamp for them. You might also want to consider an Emotiva amp.

I haven't found dealers around me within a reasonable driving distance and I mean by that is 2 hrs each way is my cap on that would love to hear those though and just a note the carver did definitely blow away this hk in every way power and sound
3 people agreed that was with me and the 4th is the guy that owned the carver im in no hurry so I will see if I can find a chance to listen to other amps as I just want to be happy at the end and not have to shop anymore for this stuff???? lol would rather spend time and money on wax

Very wise decision on the Audiogon thing.

All amps do not sound the same as you are finding out, the Marantz and Rega would sound different from the Onkyo, I would suspect some warmer without the bass slam. If you want an amp that comes close to the Onkyo you'll have to listen to amps with similar character or design. The Jolida would have also been a shock to your ears. I can't imagine the Carver having the bass control or slam of the Onkyo although it may have played louder. The Parasound Halo gear is a good suggestion, as well used Adcom gfa-5500 or 555, Vincent Audio I think you'd also find would do the job. Still a bit expensive used but Bryston amps would be great, as well as used Krell integrated, both of these would kill the Onkyo. Although conservatively rated at 80 watts into 8 ohms Onkyo has a new Reference amp that looks good with a retro finish complete with power meters, it sounds good as well if you like the Onkyo sound.

Actually, take a look at the new Onkyo Reference gear, if you thought you might be interested there is a dealer in my area who has a demo unit he wants to sell but I'm not sure if he would sell the amp separate from the preamp, I can check though. The gear would have full warranty.

Also, keep in mind what ever you listen to in a store will sound different in your own room and associated gear. The problem is to get the type of performance the vintage Onkyo delivered costs so much more today.

I found my buddies carver to be well rounded I did like it it was very clear as with my onkyo my onkyo was rated at 60 watts per channel I did listen to a new onkyo rated at 85 wpc again didn't like the sound of it I want to do this once I do want a tube amp for different listening moods and also a solid state
I want to take a trip to Cleveland to see don better and listen to some stuff up there
im just holding off to find what I could be happy with as it does stand right now the carver is ahead so far my friend has that tfm25 paired up with a carver ct 7 pre amp his speakers are Vienna acoustic mozarts he doesn't have to even turn it up at all to get power out of that thing I was a lil impressed is it the perfect sound I like not 100 percent but very tolerable I will try to find a dealer around here that has the amps you listed above also I do not know how the carver would sound paired up with my psb t6s

The Onkyo Reference is not the same as the regular line, I'll try to find a link, the amp retailed for over $2k. Will your friend let you hook the Carver up to your speakers?
Onkyo M-5000R 2-channel power amplifier at Crutchfield.com

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

The Onkyo Reference is not the same as the regular line, I'll try to find a link, the amp retailed for over $2k. Will your friend let you hook the Carver up to your speakers?
Onkyo M-5000R 2-channel power amplifier at Crutchfield.com

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Or with the same $2500 and a little patience you might just get a Pass Labs X150.5 on Audiogon.

yes ive already arranged that next week to hook up the psbs to his amp I have seen that onkyo you are referring to in ads etc need to find somewhere close enough to hear one

If you are wanting tubes, give the Vincent a listen. Audio Advisor has a 30 day money back guaranty.

Vincent Audio - SP-331 Hybrid Power Amplifier-Audio Advisor

that guy with the jolida wants me to pay with amazon pay anyone know if I would be covered under any protection ????? on audiogon etc

If you can go to Amazon under the amp's model and the guy is listed under the "used" link as a seller you should be able to see his feedback and MAY have some protection through Amazon, you'll have to check. Otherwise, I would not trust this guy, why would he list on Audiogon then try to avoid their rules? Does he have any feedback onAudiogon?

As an example, if I wanted to buy an item on Amazon, search for the model, you'll receive search results, click on the amp you are looking to buy, normally you will see Amazon's price, along with "new" & "used" prices where you can buy from other sellers. I doubt Amazon can sell Jolida but they still might show the amp from other sellers.

Parasound HCA-1201A anybody know about these?

It is supposed to be a good amp. I have a Parasound Halo A21, built like a tank and sounds great but I can't comment on the sound of the HCA.

Discontinued Products > HCA-1201A High Current Mono-Block Power Amplifier

whats the advantage or disadvantage of mono blocks?

I have a HCA-750, it's not the last word in bass but the sound is very clean. It seems from prior posts clarity was a concern for the new amp, the Parasound would provide that. The 1201 should be a step up, typically monoblocks are companies better performers. However, a weight of only 12 lbs each seems pretty light.

Monoblocks are one channel per chassis so they each have their own power supply which is an advantage. Some say monoblocks provide better channel separation and less crosstalk type distortions. On the other hand two chassis are more expensive, two chassis, two power supplies, which is the heart of any good amplifier. And as mentioned in a prior post the monoblocks are typically the top of the line.

yes I noticed the weight of those and then the uot put doesn't make sense

The Parasound HCA-1201A's minimal, no-frills chassis could account for its light weight, as could the possibility of it being a balanced-bridged design, like the Adcom GFA-1/GFA-1A, Soundcraftsmen PCR-800, PM-840, etc., models which deliver output in the 200 watt per channel range, in a package barely over 20lbs. In a balanced-bridged design, each channel is really two smaller stereo amps run in bridged mode.

HCA-1201A inside view:
Attachment 9591

I would think that the Adcom 5500 series would be a better amp than the Parasound HCA in my opinion. I heard a HCA years ago when I sold audio and a guy traded one in for a big Adcom and to me the Adcom seemed to have better bass and overall a warmer more musical presentation. Now the Parasound Halo is a whole other story as they are on a different level. But you are not going to find a Parasound Halo for the few hundred dollars that you can find a used Adcom 5500 these days.

Per the link supplied by Blackraven to the 1201 it doesn't sound like a bridged design. The basic specs look similar to my 750.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Per the link supplied by Blackraven to the 1201 it doesn't sound like a bridged design. The basic specs look similar to my 750.

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I agree. Transformer just large enough to do the job, modest sized caps, lightweight chassis, no frills, all can save on weight considerably. I was commenting mostly for John's benefit, that it is not impossioble to have high class AB power in an exceptionally lightweight package.

Here is a positive blurb on the parasound

Parasound HCA-1201A Monoblocks in Super Shape w/Low (03/19/2012)...

would I be able to bridge these mono blocks with another power amp and run 2 sets of speakers 1 off the 2 mono blocks and one off say the other amp is this possible ?

I don't think you mean "bridge". To bridge is an option on certain stereo amps to switch them to mono. A monoblock is already mono.

You can run a set of speakers from the monoblocks then another set of speakers from another amp. To do this your preamp would need two outputs or you'd have to use a Y adapter from the preamp with one leg of each Y to the stereo amp with the other legs going to the monoblocks. However, I wouldn't recommend this if both sets of speakers were in the same room, just because one amp may have more gain or one set of speakers more efficient which would make it difficult to blend or you may not even hear one pair. That's not even taking into consideration the frequency doubling and canceling you'd experience.

I have 1k to 1500 to blow on a amp and then I would need a pre amp

im looking at those parasound mono blocks and a adcom 200 watt pc and a legacy amp made by coda and a emotiva give me some thoughts ?

what would also be a good pre amp for around 300 bucks used?

Hands down get the Coda if it's in your budget. Some of the guys who worked at Threshold with Nelson Pass started Coda. This preamp would be way better than Emotiva or anything else you could find at $300.00.

The 1201's or Adcom depends on your taste. The Parasound will be clear, extended highs, I'd say with highs being prominent, there would be bass but it wouldn't call attention to itself. The Adcom will have a strong robust bass, lean to the warmer side by comparison, won't seem as open and airy as the Parasound.

As a side note Nelson Pass designed the early Adcom amps, later generations received some deviations from those original amps but still are basically similar. So the Coda and Adcom should have good synergy. If you don't like big bass you may want to go with the 1201's to balance the sound more. I've heard one of the higher end Coda preamps, so one of those with an Adcom amp will definitely provide some bottom end. So if you only need one preamp I strongly recommend the Coda. If you want a preamp in addition to the Coda at $300.00 pick up an Adcom. In another system I use an Emotiva USP-1 opposed to an Adcom but it's for the crossover features.

well the fellow wants 900.00 for the coda versus 400.00 for the adcom versus 250,00 for the parasound versus 750.00 for the emotiva 80 pound big arse amp at 300wpc my listening style is I like rush pink Floyd beatles stones some jazz classical some folk sometimes like it loud sometimes not but want great sound at low volume levels what do you think is the best buy ? bang for the buck?

I think I misread your post, I thought the Coda was a preamp. The Coda amp would be worth the extra money, overall sound would be in another league over the other 3. Next it would be hard to beat the Emo on power but I find them void of timbre, sort of like a black & white picture versus color. If not really wanting to invest in the Coda, I'd buy the Adcom and look for an Adcom preamp, the package would have you probably under $700 unless you got lucky enough to snag a gfp-750 preamp. The Adcom are really hard to beat as cheap as they come used, it's odd because they really perform well. The Coda would be an amp you could hang onto and build your system around. What model number of Legacy and Adcom?

Adcom GFA-555 II legacy coda la96 how much better is the coda over the adcom is the extra money worth it ??

If you have up to $1500 to spend, I would give a listen to a brand spanking new Peach Tree Nova 125 integrated hybrid tube digital amp and DAC. It has 220wpc at 4 ohms, a state of the art Sabre DAC along with fantastic reviews. There is a guy on the audiocircles forums that has a pair of Magnepan 3.6's that bought one and sold his high dollar mono block amps.

Here are some great reviews-

Peachtree Audio Nova125 Integrated Amp/DAC/ Headphone Amp | The Absolute Sound

Peachtree Audio nova125 Integrated Amplifier ? Reviews | TONEAudio MAGAZINE

6moons audio reviews: 3 integrated amplifiers for Magnepan's MMG

I have heard the $5000pr digital NuForce model 9se monoblocks with a pair of PSB Synchrony's and they sound like they were made for each other. I think that your T6's would sound great with the Peachtree. I have a pair of PSB B6's that sounds great with a Class D Audio CDA 254 digital amp and a Grant Fidelity DAC-11/Preamp/tube buffer.

Audio Advisor sells the Nova 125 and they have a 30 day money back policy. I think that the Nova will sound better than any thing you will buy used for your money.