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  1. #51
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    I guess the b&w sub is only 120 watts rms. The model number will fool you sometimes... But it is the biggest sub I've ever had!
    VTL Pure Tube ST 85
    Audio Research model LS15
    VAC Model CLA-1 MK2
    McIntosh MC 250
    Mctintosh MX113
    Marantz 2245
    Marantz 2230
    Marantz 2216
    Pioneer SX-1250
    Klipsch KG4
    Klipsch RB-5
    B&W DM2000
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  2. #52
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Father Time...check your PM.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  3. #53
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    pm'd you back.
    VTL Pure Tube ST 85
    Audio Research model LS15
    VAC Model CLA-1 MK2
    McIntosh MC 250
    Mctintosh MX113
    Marantz 2245
    Marantz 2230
    Marantz 2216
    Pioneer SX-1250
    Klipsch KG4
    Klipsch RB-5
    B&W DM2000
    B&W DM580
    B&W ASW1000
    Infinity crescendo 3008
    4 Advent Heritage towers
    etc...

  4. #54
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    Well poppachubby, I went ahead and got the ARC LS15... I couldn't help myself. Sounds awesome!, But, so does the VAC! I actually like the vac very much. Running it with the VTL st85 amp, through some B&W dm580's and that B&W ASW1000 sub.... Very sick. I will keep one of them and maybe trade the other for some super sick speakers. I like the sound of the martin logans. Also have been looking at some PSB speakers that caught my attention.
    BTW, the B&W ASW1000 sub is absolutely stunning. I can't turn it past 9 0'clock at 80 hz. Loving it. Makes a major difference even though the bass was good. IF you come across one of these for a deal on CL I would snatch it up.
    VTL Pure Tube ST 85
    Audio Research model LS15
    VAC Model CLA-1 MK2
    McIntosh MC 250
    Mctintosh MX113
    Marantz 2245
    Marantz 2230
    Marantz 2216
    Pioneer SX-1250
    Klipsch KG4
    Klipsch RB-5
    B&W DM2000
    B&W DM580
    B&W ASW1000
    Infinity crescendo 3008
    4 Advent Heritage towers
    etc...

  5. #55
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Wow...awesome!! It's funny, I was just comparing my own preamp's phono specs with other esoteric phono stages today. I figure I am good up to $1000. Once at that level, the specs get silly.

    I decided to look at some ARC specs for fun. They quite simply shame everything out there, fully functional pre or external phono stage.

    You will never need another preamp again. While I am sure that the VAC sounds great, and you are enjoying it, the SNR in the ARC should absolutley topple the VAC. It should be more than audible.

    Anyhow, you made a great purchase and are now seated amongst audio royalty (you lucky SOB!!!).

  6. #56
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    Hey Poppachubby,
    The thing is I was thinking that the ARC was gonna smoke the VAC, but it didn't! I really like the vac, the way it sounds, etc... But at this point it's too close to tell They both sound so nice I don't know at this point. They are both kick ass for sure! I will probably keep the ARC and sell the VAC as the blue book is higher and it's in such primo cond. Although the ARC looks brand new and is newer period. The arc seems a tad brighter also.
    So poppachubby, if I don't like the brightness, what do I do? Put something like a mullard tube in the amp or the arc? Like I said, I'm new to the tube thing
    VTL Pure Tube ST 85
    Audio Research model LS15
    VAC Model CLA-1 MK2
    McIntosh MC 250
    Mctintosh MX113
    Marantz 2245
    Marantz 2230
    Marantz 2216
    Pioneer SX-1250
    Klipsch KG4
    Klipsch RB-5
    B&W DM2000
    B&W DM580
    B&W ASW1000
    Infinity crescendo 3008
    4 Advent Heritage towers
    etc...

  7. #57
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Tube characteristics can help, but aren't any guarantee. If the ARC is truly bright, it will impose itself on just about anything you do.

    Figure out which tubes you are using and visit this site. Not only does he sell them, but he will discuss their sound. Might be a good start, and an education.

    http://www.audiotubes.com/

  8. #58
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    Thanks a bunch, poppachubby! I gotta say, it's not overly bright enough to cause fatigue problems.
    VTL Pure Tube ST 85
    Audio Research model LS15
    VAC Model CLA-1 MK2
    McIntosh MC 250
    Mctintosh MX113
    Marantz 2245
    Marantz 2230
    Marantz 2216
    Pioneer SX-1250
    Klipsch KG4
    Klipsch RB-5
    B&W DM2000
    B&W DM580
    B&W ASW1000
    Infinity crescendo 3008
    4 Advent Heritage towers
    etc...

  9. #59
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Time
    Thanks a bunch, poppachubby! I gotta say, it's not overly bright enough to cause fatigue problems.
    No problem, I learned alot just reading on that site. Brent Jesse is reachable by email for any questions, he's a super guy. He has NOS black glass 6L6's I am thinking about buying.

    I would say if your back end is bright without fatigue, be happy!! Alot of tube set ups have a darker quality, with rolled off highs. It's all a matter of taste.

    Put a nice set of tubes into those things and get ready to fall in love. Vocals will be simply untouchable. Anyhting that lives in the mid range will be too infact. You have some very nice gear...

  10. #60
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Time
    Thanks a bunch, poppachubby! I gotta say, it's not overly bright enough to cause fatigue problems.
    What tubes are currently in the ARC?

    Tube rolling can and does make a large difference.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  11. #61
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    thanks again poppachubby! And JoeE SP9, I will take a look a little later and let you know.
    I must say that after much listening last night, it sounds much better than I thought... I'm just very anal about this stuff. I had my friend over and he liked the arc much better. He just wants to come and listen to my stereo any chance he can! He's hooked!
    VTL Pure Tube ST 85
    Audio Research model LS15
    VAC Model CLA-1 MK2
    McIntosh MC 250
    Mctintosh MX113
    Marantz 2245
    Marantz 2230
    Marantz 2216
    Pioneer SX-1250
    Klipsch KG4
    Klipsch RB-5
    B&W DM2000
    B&W DM580
    B&W ASW1000
    Infinity crescendo 3008
    4 Advent Heritage towers
    etc...

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Time
    thanks again poppachubby! And JoeE SP9, I will take a look a little later and let you know.
    I must say that after much listening last night, it sounds much better than I thought... I'm just very anal about this stuff. I had my friend over and he liked the arc much better. He just wants to come and listen to my stereo any chance he can! He's hooked!
    This is all very interesting since the VAC sold for 2X that of the ARC unit.

  13. #63
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    I would love to be able to properly audition that VAC. I'm not stuck on a look or a manufacturer. If it sounds better to me then it is.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    I would love to be able to properly audition that VAC. I'm not stuck on a look or a manufacturer. If it sounds better to me then it is.
    Joe, I just noticed the CD63SE in your siggy. I have [edit]a 67SE [edit] that recently just stopped spinning the disk when loaded. I loved the player and have been trying to decide if I should have it repaired, and by who, or toss it.

    I was also using an Audio Alchemy DDE1.1 with it and that was recently hooked to my DVD player and on all the time. When I swapped my new rack in and plugged it back in, nothing. Not sure if that is worth the repair either.

    Any thoughts?

    Where did you say you were in Philly? Maybe when things settle down and summer is over, we can come up with a way to listen to the VAC. Mind you, I am not running expensive fancy tubes, just newer JJs recommended by Quest For Sound in Bristol.
    Last edited by Hyfi; 08-31-2010 at 05:18 PM.

  15. #65
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Time
    ...if I don't like the brightness, what do I do? Put something like a mullard tube in the amp or the arc? Like I said, I'm new to the tube thing
    Sorry to step in, but I might be of assistance as well. Like Joe, I also have also been a long term ARC user and likewise have an SP-9 MKIII. Tubes can make a difference for sure (I use Amperex 7308s), but brightness can also be caused by untrapped RFI downstream from the source and/or the cabling used. This false brightness can be power or signal borne. For source components, I use either aftermarket power cords or use a power conditioner. I prefer well shielded ICs as well. A side benefit to banishing the noise is increased low level resolution.

    BTW, I also use VTL amps and find a synergy between the slightly lean character of ARC products and the slightly warm character of VTL stuff.

    rw

  16. #66
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Hyfi; I live in Germantown. I like your idea. I'd love to hear the VAC. When my CD63SE dies I won't be repairing it. If I was in the market for a new CD player I'd be looking at one of the new Marantz players. I bought a Yamaha DVD S1800 earlier this year. I wanted SACD capability and the price ($80) was right. For RBCD's my MSB DAC does the job. A Marantz is in my future,

    I have a supply of NOS Telefunken and Sylvania tubes. I was allowed to clean out a closet full of tubes years ago when HUP (Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania) was getting rid of the last of their tube monitors and other related gear. I was a Biomedical Engineer there for 8 years. I got tired of being around sick people and went back to school for a MS Computer Science. It's all in the past as I'm now retired.

    Yes, different tubes can and do make a large difference in the sound of a preamp or any tube based gear. More things to tweak. He he!

    E-Stat is absolutely correct about RFI. I tried some Kimber Silver Streak a while back. Although I don't have a lot of overt RFI what was there was quite evident with the unshielded Kimber. I've since switched to DH Labs BL-1 Silver plated Copper.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Hyfi; I live in Germantown. I like your idea. I'd love to hear the VAC. When my CD63SE dies I won't be repairing it. If I was in the market for a new CD player I'd be looking at one of the new Marantz players. I bought a Yamaha DVD S1800 earlier this year. I wanted SACD capability and the price ($80) was right. For RBCD's my MSB DAC does the job. A Marantz is in my future,

    I have a supply of NOS Telefunken and Sylvania tubes. I was allowed to clean out a closet full of tubes years ago when HUP (Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania) was getting rid of the last of their tube monitors and other related gear. I was a Biomedical Engineer there for 8 years. I got tired of being around sick people and went back to school for a MS Computer Science. It's all in the past as I'm now retired.

    Yes, different tubes can and do make a large difference in the sound of a preamp or any tube based gear. More things to tweak. He he!

    E-Stat is absolutely correct about RFI. I tried some Kimber Silver Streak a while back. Although I don't have a lot of overt RFI what was there was quite evident with the unshielded Kimber. I've since switched to DH Labs BL-1 Silver plated Copper.

    I'd love to roll some tubes but can't justify the cost at the moment. As far as cables go, I am using Synergistic between cdp-pre-and amp. I have several different Tara Labs cables I can play with.

    I have also been playing with the Passive setting as to rule out the tubes altogether. I also just put the Danes back in the mix utilizing the Stratos, so I am getting a totally different sound than with the CFs.

    Germantown is not too far from Southampton so we will have to try and hook up for a listening session some time in the near future.

  18. #68
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    HyFi please take your camera to Joe's!!!! He has no digital camera and I have been dying to see his gear...

  19. #69
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Time
    Thanks a bunch, poppachubby! I gotta say, it's not overly bright enough to cause fatigue problems.
    Hey Father Time...congrats of the LS15. I have a buddy who has a LS15 preamp. It was sounding kinda boring. He said all it needed was new tubes. So he changed the tubes andnow the the thing has so much sophistication...it has a velvety kinda quality to the sound and it set the instruments in its own space with depth to the sound stage. I feel in love that night with the LS15. What was driving the LS15 was a McIntosh 225 tube amp...only 25 watts per channel.

    He also has an Electrocompaniet CDP and some home made speakers with Morel tweets and Vifa woofers. The guy is very good with wood working and actually measured and cut his own wood and rubbed the finish....and built his own crossover. I guess the only thing on the speaker he did not build is the drivers. Speaker cables and interconnects where also home made by him.

    Now I've heard systems costing thousands more, but I have yet to listen to a system that sounded better than what I heard that night. The sound was not saturated with tube sweetness nor was it edgy as some SS. This is not a laid back or borring system at all....but one that gets your attention and just pulls you into what is happening on the huge stage before you.

    Like I said, I have yet to listen to a two channel system sounding better...and while living on the east coast, before moving to the mid west, I heard systems costing into the $100.000 's and none of them, SS or Tube sounded better that that combo of the McIntosh/ARC combo. Not saying there are none, ima sure there are, but I have yet to hear one.

    I dont think it was the LS15 alone that produced that sound, but it sure added to what his system can do. In the LS15, which is not the top of the line in the ARC family, is without a doubt a very good preamp. So if I where you, I would build around it with good synergistic gear...you can shoot for the ceiling with that preamp.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  20. #70
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    HyFi please take your camera to Joe's!!!! He has no digital camera and I have been dying to see his gear...
    Sorry PC. I've been looking for a digital camera to replace my antique Nikon F-2. The Olympus Pen E-PL1 is getting my attention. Unfortunately my discretionary funds have been depleted by the recent purchase of two Crown XLS402's. Right now I'm using one on my subs and the other to drive my stats. My tube mono blocks need some new output tubes so the Crown is a nice substitute. When I get the new tubes the Crown's will be bridged and put to work on my subs.

    BTW: The Crowns were an absolute bargain; $199 each with free shipping. That's 300 WPC @ 8 Ohms and 900 Watts bridged, so Crown says. I know they have lots more power than the Hafler DH-200 they are replacing.

    I have had the clip lights blinking at a measured +106dB at one meter. This was measured with my Rat Shack meter set to slow on the 100dB range. The meter needle was gently bouncing off the stop which is just past the +6 reading. It sounded very very good.

    I hadn't realized it was that loud. I saw the clip lights blinking and pulled out the meter out of curiosity.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  21. #71
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Sorry PC. I've been looking for a digital camera to replace my antique Nikon F-2. The Olympus Pen E-PL1 is getting my attention. Unfortunately my discretionary funds have been depleted by the recent purchase of two Crown XLS402's. Right now I'm using one on my subs and the other to drive my stats. My tube mono blocks need some new output tubes so the Crown is a nice substitute. When I get the new tubes the Crown's will be bridged and put to work on my subs.

    BTW: The Crowns were an absolute bargain; $199 each with free shipping. That's 300 WPC @ 8 Ohms and 900 Watts bridged, so Crown says. I know they have lots more power than the Hafler DH-200 they are replacing.

    I have had the clip lights blinking at a measured +106dB at one meter. This was measured with my Rat Shack meter set to slow on the 100dB range. The meter needle was gently bouncing off the stop which is just past the +6 reading. It sounded very very good.

    I hadn't realized it was that loud. I saw the clip lights blinking and pulled out the meter out of curiosity.
    Nah, it's cool. I will eventually make it over to your place. Remember my aunt lives in Pittsburgh, but the kids are too small for a road trip.

    You must admit, there's been a couple of conversations where a pic from your end would have been good.

    As for the amp scenario, I have been giving more thought to amping my mains and sub in my HT.

  22. #72
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    Well, I'm bummed! I have to move so I will probably have to sell my VAC pre amp... blue book is $1860.00 so I plan to sell them for around $1700.00, or else I'll have to sell my arc which I'm liking. I actuallylove them both, but need to make some $, so will sell the VAC. So if you know someone, let me know ...
    .
    VTL Pure Tube ST 85
    Audio Research model LS15
    VAC Model CLA-1 MK2
    McIntosh MC 250
    Mctintosh MX113
    Marantz 2245
    Marantz 2230
    Marantz 2216
    Pioneer SX-1250
    Klipsch KG4
    Klipsch RB-5
    B&W DM2000
    B&W DM580
    B&W ASW1000
    Infinity crescendo 3008
    4 Advent Heritage towers
    etc...

  23. #73
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Time
    Well, I'm bummed! I have to move so I will probably have to sell my VAC pre amp... blue book is $1860.00 so I plan to sell them for around $1700.00, or else I'll have to sell my arc which I'm liking. I actuallylove them both, but need to make some $, so will sell the VAC. So if you know someone, let me know ...
    .
    I suspect if you use Audiogon, it will sell quickly.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Time
    Well, I'm bummed! I have to move so I will probably have to sell my VAC pre amp... blue book is $1860.00 so I plan to sell them for around $1700.00, or else I'll have to sell my arc which I'm liking. I actuallylove them both, but need to make some $, so will sell the VAC. So if you know someone, let me know ...
    .
    Good luck with that. Before I became the owner of the VAC I have, I couldn't even sell it for $500. (the original owner asked me to help him sell his whole system together or separately) Maybe the economy is a little better than in the weeks after the downturn, but not much.

    Bummer you can't keep them both. I wish I still had my old Sound Valves just to swap them once in a while like I do with my amps. Between 2 pairs of speaker, 2 amps, and a pre that does passive and gain, I get 6 different sounding systems by only moving a pair of speakers.

  25. #75
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    Well, I'll try CL first as I'm not a subscripted member of audiogon yet. And if I can't get what I want for it, I'll just get another tube amp and set up yet another system. I just found a bad assed house to move in to with lots of room and won't have an ole lady telling me to turn it down when it's not even at 9 O'clock! I got all my tube stuff in my office so I won't "bother" anyone with the beautiful sound of my valve equipment!
    It's funny, my brother in law is kind of an audiophile type, and he auditioned my new set up and I asked him what he thought... He said "I think it is the nicest I have ever heard".
    When people come over, all the guys are in my office listening to my stereos and the women are in the house.... Typical I'm sure!
    I think that I may get another VTL st85 and run bi-amped as monos as I gather it sounds extremely good that way...
    VTL Pure Tube ST 85
    Audio Research model LS15
    VAC Model CLA-1 MK2
    McIntosh MC 250
    Mctintosh MX113
    Marantz 2245
    Marantz 2230
    Marantz 2216
    Pioneer SX-1250
    Klipsch KG4
    Klipsch RB-5
    B&W DM2000
    B&W DM580
    B&W ASW1000
    Infinity crescendo 3008
    4 Advent Heritage towers
    etc...

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