Taking the Hi End Plunge?

[harley .guy07]

Good Purchase!!! I will tell you that getting a Pass amp has been the single best audio experience I have ever had and I know that I need to upgrade speakers to really get to the best this amp can do. I did hear myself that the x250 is better than the x150 but I also heard that when they started making the x150.5 version like mine the differences got much smaller or not at all compared to the x250.5 except for the power differences. I am glad that you chose the 250 because from what I hear the older 150 is not even on the same level as my 150.5. I will be looking forward to what you think of this amp when you get it home. I think you will be floored with the shear musicality that these amps are capable of and the amount of emotion that they show. Specs aren't everything and the Pass amps prove it.

[blackraven]

Harley, the guy at Pass Labs that I talked to, said that the 150.5 has much better sound than the older X-150. I have looked for a used 150.5 but haven't been able to find one. Supposedly the 0.5 series have a slightly warmer sound and are more tube like.

You are right about specs. My A21 amp has higher current, slew rate and a dampening factor over 1000 along with lower THD than the X250. On paper it looks great. But in the real world it can't compete with amps like the Pass.

[harley .guy07]

The guy at Pass labs said it just like the people I have talked to. the 150.5 is much better than the original 150 and more on par with the upper level .5 amps. I found mine just looking one day and thought I better jump at it while this lasted. the price I got mine at was a steal compared to new and almost too good to be true. I must say though that the 150.5 does not seem to come up for sale very often. The prices you mentioned for the 250 seems very good though and I would not hesitate at all if the amp checks out as been taken care of. Unless a person has severe upgraditus or just have a whole in there wallet bigger than most I would say most audiophiles would be happy ending their journey at the Pass .5 series amps. I know I have never heard an amp in my life that gives music this kind of life and energy while keeping all the detail and dynamic slam. I recently added my XLR connectors back into the chain between the preamp and amp and also changed the interconnects between my dac and preamp. made much difference and now I know why people say to use the balanced connectors on Pass amps. It really opened up the sound and let the detail and lifelike realism flow. I really noticed it with the dynamics of the music between soft and loud passages.

[blackraven]

I wish I could add XLR's but my preamp is not balanced. That may be my next upgrade to a balanced preamp. Some time in the future I would like to find a used CJ or AR tube preamp with XLR's.

[Feanor]

I wish I could add XLR's but my preamp is not balanced. That may be my next upgrade to a balanced preamp. Some time in the future I would like to find a used CJ or AR tube preamp with XLR's.

I'm pretty sure CJ only make single-end, RCA only output preamps. AR makes mostly balanced but some single-ended only. BAT only makes balanced, (true to their name, Balanced Audio Technologies).

But I wanted to get back to a pre with balanced i/o at least and preferably fully balanced hence the ARC LS9 (which should arrive tomorrow or Monday). Previously I had an Adcom GFP750 then a Sonic Frontiers Line 1; both were fully balanced. The LS9 has two balance inputs and two balanced outputs.

As you observed about the Pass Labs, some amps are optimized for balanced connection. The Pass Labs, Ayre, BAT (of course) ... and my humble CDA SDS.

[blackraven]

I was browsing Audiogon earlier and there are a couple of preamps that caught my eye-

There is an ARC LS16 with HT by pass for $1,600 and a BAT VK 3iX for $1,650. I could be happy with either one. But unfortunately I can't afford either one right now. I may sell my Van Alstine Ultra plus Hybrid Preamp. I will just have to see how things sound with the Pass.

[harley .guy07]

I tried the balanced connectors when I first got my Pass amp and I did not like them when I had my PS audio Digi link in my system because it did not have enough low end to keep up with the more detail in the midrange. Now that I have upgraded to the NuWave dac the low end is quite a bit better and now the sound is awesome with the balanced connectors. I was very happy with the sound with the RCA's but I can tell that XLR balanced cables are the way that both the Pass amp and Nuforce preamp were meant and designed to use.

[blackraven]

Harley, how do you like your Nu Force preamp? I really like the Model 9se amps, they are very tube like with great air, transparency and control. Does your preamp seem tube like?

[Feanor]

I was browsing Audiogon earlier and there are a couple of preamps that caught my eye-

There is an ARC LS16 with HT by pass for $1,600 and a BAT VK 3iX for $1,650. I could be happy with either one. But unfortunately I can't afford either one right now. I may sell my Van Alstine Ultra plus Hybrid Preamp. I will just have to see how things sound with the Pass.

No doubt your X250 will sound great even with the RCA connectors. Balanced would gilding the lily.

I would have preferred a tube preamp but, new or used, they are more expensive than solid state, especially balanced and with remote control. So an LS16 seems pretty ideal for me but at $1600 it would be almost twice what I paid for the LS9.

By reputation ARC tube stuff is relatively cool and closer to solid state; BAT is warmer and darker, so they say. Sonic Frontiers, e.g. the Line 1 which I owned, is relatively cheap but the reason for that is that it's very solid state-like; also the company is out of business though if can be repaired by Parts ConneXion.

[harley .guy07]

Harley, how do you like your Nu Force preamp? I really like the Model 9se amps, they are very tube like with great air, transparency and control. Does your preamp seem tube like?

I really like the P8 preamp. If you read any of the reviews online about it they will talk about how this preamp shows some qualities of tubes and I would have to agree. The midrange has a liquid type musical flow that would remind a person of listening to tubes but without the highs or lows being diminished or the bass not tight. I have hears some people say that the highs are bright with this preamp but I wounder what other components they were using because it is not bright at all in my opinion and a lot of reviewers have this opinion as well. This is one such review and even though he does say that the highs are dry compared to a tube pre he also said the P8 did things that most tube pres can't

NuForce P8 Preamplifier | AVguide

This review is the one that made me look for one of these back when I was shopping for preamps. I was actually looking at the Rogue Audio Metis or Perseus when I read this review then I liked what they said about the sound character of the P8. I liked that it had tube like qualities in the area where tubes are at their best, the midrange. And it had solid state qualities in the areas which they are better, the bass, treble, and the inner musical detail, and of coarse the noise floor. I know there are better preamps out there and I would love to have a Pass Preamp Like Mr. P's but I am happy with the Nuforce for now and my next move will be an upgrade in speakers. I am still in school for another year or so so I am trying to hold off until I get out to throw down a chunk on speakers. I know I should wait because I don't want to mess around with the step process I want to really upgrade into something I can own for years and cherish and if that means spending more so be it.

[blackraven]

I just paid for the amp today. It should ship out on Thursday. Its time to get energized about my system again. During the summer I sort of lose interest in listening to music due to the nice weather. Now that fall is here and the temperatures are dropping, I will spend a lot more time listening to music. The summers here are just too short to spend it indoors.

I will finally post some pictures of my gear once the Pass is set up.

Feanor, I tried to send you a PM but your box is full.

[Feanor]

I just paid for the amp today. It should ship out on Thursday. Its time to get energized about my system again. During the summer I sort of lose interest in listening to music due to the nice weather. Now that fall is here and the temperatures are dropping, I will spend a lot more time listening to music. The summers here are just too short to spend it indoors.

I will finally post some pictures of my gear once the Pass is set up.

Feanor, I tried to send you a PM but your box is full.

I'd be frantic waiting if I were expecting an X250. As it is, I'm going to stick with my CLD SDS for a while, at the very least 'till after Christmas. I'll be getting my ARC LS9 preamp tomorrow with any luck.

My PM books is now less full, BTW.

[blackraven]

Well the amp arrived safely today according to my son. However, I am stuck in Vegas till tomorrow night. I would like to get on a plane now and go home. I will post my initial impressions late tomorrow or early Thursday. My son opened the box and found a certificate of authenticity from Pass Labs showing that the amp was sent back to them and that it checks out in perfect condition. He says that the amp is in perfect cosmetic condition. I am psyched about this amp. I just hope that my preamp and dac measure up. I don't have the most resolving tubes in my preamp and DAC right now, just the warmest sounding, I am sure I will have to do some tube rolling.

I would like this amp to be the last amp that I purchase till I am old and deaf and have to give it to my son.

[harley .guy07]

That's the way I feel about my Pass amp. I hope it will be the last amp I purchase for many years to come as I am very happy with it. A lot of wealthy audiophiles start off with the x.5 series then trade up to the XA series and if that isn't enough they now have the XS series to upgrade to which to say the least is way over any price I would pay for a power amp. Heck the XA series is probably more than I would pay unless somehow I come into way more money that will allow me to let go of that king of money for one component.

I hope you like the Pass and I am excited to see what you think of it compared to what you have been listening to or have tried recently

[Feanor]

Well the amp arrived safely today according to my son. However, I am stuck in Vegas till tomorrow night. I would like to get on a plane now and go home. I will post my initial impressions late tomorrow or early Thursday. My son opened the box and found a certificate of authenticity from Pass Labs showing that the amp was sent back to them and that it checks out in perfect condition. He says that the amp is in perfect cosmetic condition. I am psyched about this amp. I just hope that my preamp and dac measure up. I don't have the most resolving tubes in my preamp and DAC right now, just the warmest sounding, I am sure I will have to do some tube rolling.

I would like this amp to be the last amp that I purchase till I am old and deaf and have to give it to my son.

With due respect to your AVA preamp, the X250 probably doesn't need added warmth but might benefit from balanced input.

I'm seriously thinking about an amp upgrade but am not sure what I can rationally and fairly spend; (my wife would prefer the money go towards a vacation trip). I don't foresee replacing my MG 1.6's at least.

[Feanor]

That's the way I feel about my Pass amp. I hope it will be the last amp I purchase for many years to come as I am very happy with it. A lot of wealthy audiophiles start off with the x.5 series then trade up to the XA series and if that isn't enough they now have the XS series to upgrade to which to say the least is way over any price I would pay for a power amp. Heck the XA series is probably more than I would pay unless somehow I come into way more money that will allow me to let go of that king of money for one component.

I hope you like the Pass and I am excited to see what you think of it compared to what you have been listening to or have tried recently

More expensive is the trend in high-end equipment. I firmly believe it's part of the increasing separation of the rich from the middle class. The latter have less money to spend so they buy nothing or resort to value products from Far East. High end makers see the middle class shrinking as a source of revenue and compelled to target the top end of the market where margins are higher.

[harley .guy07]

More expensive is the trend in high-end equipment. I firmly believe it's part of the increasing separation of the rich from the middle class. The latter have less money to spend so they buy nothing or resort to value products from Far East. High end makers see the middle class shrinking as a source of revenue and compelled to target the top end of the market where margins are higher.

You are very correct with your thought about how they are starting to market and sell their products. I believe even though I am a music lover and an audiophile and will be till my last day I also believe that there is a limit to what I will spend on a single component in my system. I know that some of this is relative to income level but also I thing it has to do with the my feelings that I will not be able to get that much more performance from my system compared to the money spent and not spending the extra on other things. Its the old diminishing returns thing and I do believe that after a certain price point the differences start to fade and that is why you see people comparing speakers in the $10,000 range to speakers double the price is because the differences after a certain price point are very miniscule. I grew up in a middle class environment and have a very strong business mind and part of that is knowing that spending $100,000 on a pair of monoblock amplifiers is rediculas and most likely not needed for the enjoyment of music in my home. I also know that a certain percentage of the people that would spend that king of money on these amplifiers don't even have the knowledge and appreciation for music that we share as audiophiles rather they have a bragging rights game being played with other wealthy people around them and even if they hear the differences between a $10,000 amp and a $100,000 amp they also know the differences are small as well. I can't blame the companies that make these products for making them and selling them they are just doing what companies do, make money selling products to customers looking for products like they make and if they have people that are willing to spend that king of money on one component then they will make it. It happens with every luxury product category out there. Who am I to say its wrong for them but for me I have my limits on what I will spend on audio even though I am a die hard fan of it.

[frenchmon]

Well the amp arrived safely today according to my son. However, I am stuck in Vegas till tomorrow night. I would like to get on a plane now and go home. I will post my initial impressions late tomorrow or early Thursday. My son opened the box and found a certificate of authenticity from Pass Labs showing that the amp was sent back to them and that it checks out in perfect condition. He says that the amp is in perfect cosmetic condition. I am psyched about this amp. I just hope that my preamp and dac measure up. I don't have the most resolving tubes in my preamp and DAC right now, just the warmest sounding, I am sure I will have to do some tube rolling.

I would like this amp to be the last amp that I purchase till I am old and deaf and have to give it to my son.

I too agree with Fenor....the AVA is not as warm and is actually lively. So you may find some good synergy. Now I know you probably dont agree but You really should spend a little cash on a good power cord and some good interconnects. And of course you know you still have to consider your weakest link in your system.