Oh Krell, my Krell

[Jack in Wilmington]

20W per channel is probably all you need most of the time.My thesis is that class D amplifiers have matured now and a properly designed and built class D amplifier is superior to class AB designs.

If you can get one of the major audio publications ( Stereophile or The Absolute Sound for example) to agree with you, then your theory might hold water. It doesn't sound like those of us with AB amps who have previously owned class D agree.

[Kursun]

If you can get one of the major audio publications ( Stereophile or The Absolute Sound for example) to agree with you, then your theory might hold water. It doesn't sound like those of us with AB amps who have previously owned class D agree.

““…previously” might be the key Word here. Class D has evolved. Once it was only good for subwoofers. I am not a circuit design guru but higher switching frequencies may have helped a lot.______“A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them.” – Steve Jobs______A lot of people aren’t aware of the virtues of class A. But they do have their drawbacks. People believe class D is just not good enough…So manufacturers shovel class AB through consumers’ throats. Because it is practical to design and sell class AB.I had been blessed/cursed with a pair of Yamaha NS1000M speakers. Like my AKG K701 headphones they let you hear tiniest amount of defect in the source. For me they are the best speakers in the world regardless of price. For those of you not familiar with these speakers here is a short glimpse: Yamaha NS-1000M | I have used several class AB amplifiers to drive the Yamaha NS1000Ms with disastrous results. Midrange and highs were much too bright and hard, too little bass. I decided to build a solid state class A power amplifier to drive it. Postimage.org / Pure Class A Power Amplifier II Result was unbelievable. Midrange and highs are now transparent as pure water and bass is deep with great authority (although power is only a 2x30W./that'a 500W torodidal power transformer inside).Later when it was time to replace my AV receiver I looked at the top of the line Pioneer receivers, I was disappointed to see that all of their higher models were class D. I didn’t think fondly of class D at the time. Well I bought Pioneer SC-LX87 anyway. When I hooked it up, WOW! Its sound is almost close to the class A power amplifier! Class A amplifier on steroids!The truth is Class AB is practical for the industry to build and the consumer to buy. Both the industry and the consumer is happy. I don’t know why Stereophile or other publications investigate the matter. Though they do their listening evaluation I think one problem lies with the labs measuring THD and IM while the amplifier is connected to purely resistive 8 ohm dummy loads. The general public starts to think their amplifier is totally distortion free, while class B/AB crossover distortion grind their ears.

[Kursun]

Sorry,I don't know why my paragraphs are garbled.

[Mr Peabody]

Class D is popular now, almost every large manufacturer has something Class D to offer and several Class D only brands like Red Dragon, NuForce, Channel Island etc. I just had in my system a great set of Class D monoblocks from Merrill Audio. In evaluating it is good to have another good amp to compare with like the Pass. In short, the Veritas were smooth, clear, detailed, quick and powerful. In comparing the two brands there were some trades. I didn't notice this before but have been told Class D lacks in dynamics. It took me a while to notice this in the Veritas due to the fast transients but on a particular song it became apparent. The song starts soft then swells with intensity on the Pass, the same song on the Veritas the music didn't swell. Once I became aware of the difference I could hear it in voices and other areas. Despite this nature in the Veritas they were still musical and had good timing.

In the end I still preferred my Pass for what I already mentioned plus I enjoy the warmer midrange and fuller bass.

It's to the point now that you can't stereotype Class D any more and that's a good thing. The Veritas has pristine tones on things like bells, cymbals etc. that were not fatiguing at all. It will really depend on what one likes to listen to and you are going for. If you wanted max detail from a recording the Veritas would be hard to beat. They also had good bass it was super controlled.

[JohnMichael]

I just checked emails and a notice from UPS states that my Krell will be home tomorrow. Tonight I am working my seventh night in a row but I think I will have the energy to put it back in the system. I do not know what they repaired until I read the packing slip. Sounds like no sleep tomorrow. Thanks Krell!

[Mr Peabody]

JM will be a happy camper

[Feanor]

Class D is popular now, almost every large manufacturer has something Class D to offer and several Class D only brands like Red Dragon, NuForce, Channel Island etc. I just had in my system a great set of Class D monoblocks from Merrill Audio. In evaluating it is good to have another good amp to compare with like the Pass. In short, the Veritas were smooth, clear, detailed, quick and powerful. In comparing the two brands there were some trades. I didn't notice this before but have been told Class D lacks in dynamics. It took me a while to notice this in the Veritas due to the fast transients but on a particular song it became apparent. The song starts soft then swells with intensity on the Pass, the same song on the Veritas the music didn't swell. Once I became aware of the difference I could hear it in voices and other areas. Despite this nature in the Veritas they were still musical and had good timing.

In the end I still preferred my Pass for what I already mentioned plus I enjoy the warmer midrange and fuller bass.

It's to the point now that you can't stereotype Class D any more and that's a good thing. The Veritas has pristine tones on things like bells, cymbals etc. that were not fatiguing at all. It will really depend on what one likes to listen to and you are going for. If you wanted max detail from a recording the Veritas would be hard to beat. They also had good bass it was super controlled.

Ha! Remarkable: this is pretty close to how I would describe the difference between my Pass Labs X150.5 and my Class D Audio SDS-258. I would only add that the Pass has not exactly more detail, but more palpable 3D imaging and soundstage depth.

One difference between the CLD SDS-258 and the Merrill Veritas though: the former cost $650 while the latter cost $12,000.

[Mr Peabody]

Ha! Remarkable: this is pretty close to how I would describe the difference between my Pass Labs X150.5 and my Class D Audio SDS-258. I would only add that the Pass has not exactly more detail, but more palpable 3D imaging and soundstage depth.

One difference between the CLD SDS-258 and the Merrill Veritas though: the former cost $650 while the latter cost $12,000.

The Merrill had more detail in laying bare what was in the track, it was musical, I just find Pass a very satisfying balance of all aspects to my taste.

I auditioned the Class D amp Harley had, not sure where your amp is in the line compared to his. The Class D doesn't compare to the Merrill, whether it's worth the many times more in price only the listener could say. Merrill has taken best of show at a couple of the audio shows.

I'm curious what these Red Dragon amps sound like, made in the U.S. and also reasonably priced.

[JohnMichael]

My Krell is home and sounding good. So much more instrumental texture than with the Onkyo. Cheers to a long life.

[Feanor]

The Merrill had more detail {than the CLD SDS-258} in laying bare what was in the track, it was musical, I just find Pass a very satisfying balance of all aspects to my taste.

I auditioned the Class D amp Harley had, not sure where your amp is in the line compared to his. The Class D doesn't compare to the Merrill, whether it's worth the many times more in price only the listener could say. Merrill has taken best of show at a couple of the audio shows.

I'm curious what these Red Dragon amps sound like, made in the U.S. and also reasonably priced.

So it isn't really surprising that the Merrill beats the CLD. That is, given the price difference (for which you ought to get something), but also that the Merrill is a Hypex nCore amp. The nCores are emerging as the class D -- or perhaps the class anything -- to beat these days. And while you have explained the Veritas is actually better than you Pass Labs in some ways, e.g. resolution, I find that my Pass Labs beats my CLD in every way.

I've been somewhat following your AudioAsylum review of the Merrill Veritas. I'm always interested to here comments from Morricab; I have a lot of respect for his comments on account of the vast array of equipment he as be privileged to hear. I also respect that he has the most refined and technically plausible rationale for his preferences that I've ever heard from anyone. However his preferences remain just that.

[Jack in Wilmington]

““…previously” might be the key Word here. Class D has evolved. Once it was only good for subwoofers. I am not a circuit design guru but higher switching frequencies may have helped a lot.______“A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them.” – Steve Jobs______A lot of people aren’t aware of the virtues of class A. But they do have their drawbacks. People believe class D is just not good enough…So manufacturers shovel class AB through consumers’ throats. Because it is practical to design and sell class AB.I had been blessed/cursed with a pair of Yamaha NS1000M speakers. Like my AKG K701 headphones they let you hear tiniest amount of defect in the source. For me they are the best speakers in the world regardless of price. For those of you not familiar with these speakers here is a short glimpse: Yamaha NS-1000M | I have used several class AB amplifiers to drive the Yamaha NS1000Ms with disastrous results. Midrange and highs were much too bright and hard, too little bass. I decided to build a solid state class A power amplifier to drive it. Postimage.org / Pure Class A Power Amplifier II Result was unbelievable. Midrange and highs are now transparent as pure water and bass is deep with great authority (although power is only a 2x30W./that'a 500W torodidal power transformer inside).Later when it was time to replace my AV receiver I looked at the top of the line Pioneer receivers, I was disappointed to see that all of their higher models were class D. I didn’t think fondly of class D at the time. Well I bought Pioneer SC-LX87 anyway. When I hooked it up, WOW! Its sound is almost close to the class A power amplifier! Class A amplifier on steroids!The truth is Class AB is practical for the industry to build and the consumer to buy. Both the industry and the consumer is happy. I don’t know why Stereophile or other publications investigate the matter. Though they do their listening evaluation I think one problem lies with the labs measuring THD and IM while the amplifier is connected to purely resistive 8 ohm dummy loads. The general public starts to think their amplifier is totally distortion free, while class B/AB crossover distortion grind their ears.

I just know that I've had 2 class D amps in my system, a tube amp and a solid state and neither could drive my speakers like my Pass Labs amp can drive them. The class D's just seem to fall apart when the music got complex and didn't take the highs to their apex and instead rolled them off. If you're right I'd expect to see some class D amps rated in the Class "A" or even "B" when Stereophile does their annual best of the best article. I'll look for that this year when the article hits the news stand. I'll also read closely the articles on class D amps and see if they mention being better now than class AB.

[Kursun]

If you have a Pass Labs amplifier, anything by Nelson Pass, I frankly think you don't need to look any further.

[Jack in Wilmington]

If you have a Pass Labs amplifier, anything by Nelson Pass, I frankly think you don't need to look any further.

I agree, I didn't feel like I had to, but then you got me thinking that maybe I missed something in my two class D amps. Maybe with a speaker that is an easier load like an 8 ohm 90 sensitivity speaker.