Niles SPK-1 Amplifier selector

[blackraven]

Well I finally found the solution to my dilema of wanting to run 2 amplifiers on one set of spealkers. I wanted to run a HT receiver form multichannel and a 2ch amp for stereo music using the same speakers, To do this you usually have to have a preamp with a HT bypass or set up a tape loop. However, I found this product by niles audio, its an amplifier switcher and its good up to 600wpc and is 12v triggered, for only $95.

Niles SPK-1 www.nilesaudio.com/images/PDF/SPK-1_Cutsheet.pdf

Now the question is, can I hook up my zone 2 of my AV receiver'2 preamp and use this as the 2ch side with a dedicated 2ch power amp. I'll be calling Niles and Adcom on this one.

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks for letting us know about this product. I didn't know it existed.

[basite]

interesting indeed, thanks!

[jamesswarbrick]

Hi there.
I am interested in the same process for a long time now. I looked at the info but can you explain to me how the selector works? i.e. what is the 12V control in/out function and how would I get it to work with my Marantz 7200 for Turntable and have a marantz surround for DVDs going through my one pari of Quads? does it simply switch between A and B when the 12V is turned on? then the next time its turned on it goes to the other?
thanks, James

Project prespective
Music fidelity XLPSv3
Marantz 7200
Marantz SR something
Quad 11L
MS 10i
Talk electronics thunder CD
Legend sub

[blackraven]

The 12Vdc is a 12volt trigger from your amp or receiver. Not all amps have them. It also must be a minimum of 100milliamps to trigger the switch. One side will always be the dedicated always on till it senses the 12v input of the other receiver which will trigger the switch. So one amp must have a 12v trigger out.

If your recievers or amps do not have a 12v 100milliamp trigger ten Niles makes the SAS-1 which connects to the speaker outs of both recievers or amps and switches to which ever amp is sending current to the common speaker. In effect, it is a current sensing switch which is powered by its onw 16Vdc power supply. I was lucky to buy one on ebay for $10. It normally sells for $150. The power supply was missing and Niles Audio sent me one for free!

[frahengeo]

The 12Vdc is a 12volt trigger from your amp or receiver. Not all amps have them. It also must be a minimum of 100milliamps to trigger the switch. One side will always be the dedicated always on till it senses the 12v input of the other receiver which will trigger the switch. So one amp must have a 12v trigger out.

If your recievers or amps do not have a 12v 100milliamp trigger ten Niles makes the SAS-1 which connects to the speaker outs of both recievers or amps and switches to which ever amp is sending current to the common speaker. In effect, it is a current sensing switch which is powered by its onw 16Vdc power supply. I was lucky to buy one on ebay for $10. It normally sells for $150. The power supply was missing and Niles Audio sent me one for free!

Hi Blackraven,

I see that you have highend AV gear. I believe that most of us try to minimize having too many interconnects, interruptions, as well as minimize the signal paths. With that in mind, how does your system sound with the SPK-1 in place? Do you feel that there is some/slight sound degradation? Not sure what the guts of the SPK-1 looks like, but I imagine that it could potentially be the "bottle neck" in one's AV system. Like you, I would like to share my speakers between my 2-channel system and my HT system.

Thanks

Adam

[nightflier]

I'm also curious about the performance hit. I used to use a Russound speaker selector box with two amp inputs (your basic speaker selector) to audition gear until I realized that it degraded the output so much that I couldn't rely on it for a/b comparisons, even though things were supposedly equal on both channels.

I'm also still not clear on how the 12v trigger works. I presume that your higher end unit (probably your 2-channel preamp) should be the one sending the trigger voltage to the SPK-1, but that would be an atypical setup. It is more likely that the receiver or pre/pro would be equipped with a trigger, and the higher-end 2-channel pre would not.

[frahengeo]

I'm also curious about the performance hit. I used to use a Russound speaker selector box with two amp inputs (your basic speaker selector) to audition gear until I realized that it degraded the output so much that I couldn't rely on it for a/b comparisons, even though things were supposedly equal on both channels.

I'm also still not clear on how the 12v trigger works. I presume that your higher end unit (probably your 2-channel preamp) should be the one sending the trigger voltage to the SPK-1, but that would be an atypical setup. It is more likely that the receiver or pre/pro would be equipped with a trigger, and the higher-end 2-channel pre would not.

Yes. Pre/Pros typically have 12V outputs. For example in my setup, I can send a 12V signal out of my pre/pro to activate my amplifier. If you don't have a 12V output, Niles also sells an SAS-1 that can be switched based on a line level signal, video signal, or speaker level signal. These switching devices are often sold on auction sites. It may be an indication that there are performance related issues.

By the way, what type of sound degradation were you experiencing with the Russound unit? Drop offs, reduced output in general, or specific frequencies?

[Mr Peabody]

It requires a bit more effort but what I do is just switch the speaker leads at the back of the speaker. Doesn't take long with banana plugs.

[blackraven]

I have not noticed a drop off in sound but my hi freq hearing is a bit off from too many live rock concerts in my younger days. My parasound amp has a 100mv trigger as does my adcom AVR. I use the Parasound to trigger it. I recently purchased the NIles SAS-1 which is is speaker triggered. It has 2 pairs of input sensing sensing speaker inputs and a common speaker out. It requires a 16v power supply. The SPK-1 was non powered except for the 12v trigger. I have not used the SAS-1 yet but when I do I'll post a review.

If your interested in either of these units, check Ebay. I got the SAS-1 for a $10 bid. List is some where between $150 and 200.

Larry

[frahengeo]

It requires a bit more effort but what I do is just switch the speaker leads at the back of the speaker. Doesn't take long with banana plugs.

Mr. Peabody,

Your method is the better way in terms of ensuring that the sound quality remains optimum. I did install a backdoor to get access to my system, but still finding it to be a pain.

Larry,

I recently picked my SAS-1 for $11.00 on that auction site as well, but with no power cord. Like you, I called Niles and they are sending me one for free.

[Mr Peabody]

True, my method does require easy access. If not, a switcher would be welcomed.

[Feanor]

True, my method does require easy access. If not, a switcher would be welcomed.

If access is an issue for the speaker termials, build a simple box and install ...

• 1 x four pole, double throw switch like this from Parts Express, and
• 6 x pair of five-way speaker terminals; also from Parts Express.
• Wire with internally with 16 or heavier AWG OFC wire, e.g. Parts Express.

[Hyfi]

I recently searched for a solution to using my sub with both a 2 ch and ht system. In the end, I guess any AB selector with RCAs would have worked.

What I ended up doing was digging an old Realistic Processor from 1984 out of my stash and used the VCR1 and VCR2 in-outs. (that was it's original duty when I had both a Beta and VHS hooked to same tv with one input.

I do think there is a performance degradation compared to just swapping the sub cable from Amp to HT Receiver. I am reconsidering taking it out of the loop and just climbing behind the gear to swap the cables as needed to gain back the performance.

I have a Niles 4 speaker switch which has such flimsy spring loaded connections that they blow apart when I try to use any cable besides zip cord so I am assuming the internal components of any of these boxes is basic crapola and will degrade your sound.

[frahengeo]

True, my method does require easy access. If not, a switcher would be welcomed.

Exactly! Hence, the topic at hand.

I will find out for myself whether the SAS-1 will degrade my system sound soon enough. If so, I will resort to the manual method outlined by Mr. Peabody. Man, what a boring topic though...

[nightflier]

Mr. P., while your switching system is indeed the prefered method, it does require cycling the equipment on & off too (probably not ideal for tubes), and over time, lesser cables do become weaker at the solder points.

The degradation on the Russound was pronounced. The volume was definitely lower, the treble was weak (a lot less air) and the bass was thin. Without the switch all these came back in spades. This was especially true when I tried this on my new Magnepands, which are very revealing. Of course, running Maggies through a switchbox is a sacrilege, I know....

[Mr Peabody]

Hyfi, REL subs have an independent volume control for stereo and HT. I wonder if they have a patent or something, this seems like a feature that would catch on.

NF, not sure what you mean. I basically have two systems, when listening to stereo it's the CJ set up using the t2.5's, when listening to HT I connect the t2.5's back to my Linn. The CJ is not on at all during HT.

[nightflier]

Don't you need to turn those off when you connect cables? I'm not familiar with Linn or CJ, but I have to imagine they need to be turned off as well.

[Mr Peabody]

Don't you need to turn those off when you connect cables? I'm not familiar with Linn or CJ, but I have to imagine they need to be turned off as well.

* Duh! of course.

I'm not sure where we aren't communicating here. Let's forget the word "share" and just say I use the t2.5 in two different systems.

When I listen to stereo I'm usually in that mood and stick to that. If I watch movies I usually stay with that. I don't do a lot of back and forth on the fly but if I did the amps would certainly have to be powered down. And, with warm up of tubes I wouldn't turn that system off and on much.

[frahengeo]

Okay. I've had this Niles SAS-1 device for a couple of days now. I've been going back and forth between 1) a direct connection of Amp to speaker wire to speakers and 2) from Amp to speaker wire to switch box to speaker wire and finally to speaker. As you can imagine, a very tedious process.

I don't hear a difference. However, I am using Rock music, from AC/DC to ZZ Top, and from Ska, Punk, to Classic Rock for this comparison. I have a few jazz and classical albums that might be a better source and will try it, but my ears may not be trained enough to distinguish.

Any suggestions?

[blackraven]

Try the Classical and Jazz. I was unable to tell the difference with mine.

[frahengeo]

Try the Classical and Jazz. I was unable to tell the difference with mine.

So here it is. I listened to Jazz at the Pawnshop (one of the few Jazz CDs I own) and Vivaldi: The Great String Concertos with and without the SAS-1 switcher.

I'm trying, but I can't hear a difference and I'm starting to wonder if there is something else in my system that's the limiting factor. I must admit, however, that don't have the trained ear that many of the forum members here have, so please, with a grain of salt.

Aside from this, the device works great. I'm switching between my HT Amp and my 2-Channel Amp using speaker level audio to switch. When the HT amp, in the "B" position, sends the signal to my speakers, the switch immediately activates with no cutouts. The delay adjustment works great too. I have it set at the maximum delay and after ~30 seconds without an audio signal, I can hear the device switch back to the default position, "A".

[Mr Peabody]

You know, if you can't hear any difference put the gizmo in place and forget about it. Glad it's working out.