New Class D Audio Complete Amplifiers

BoJon,

I have the Dayton APA150 which I use as a sub amp as it has switchable crossover controls. Unfortunately it is not so great playing in stereo. I also have the Dayton DTA-100 ( T-amp ) which sounds much better.

I agree with the Evil Bird above. The DTA 100a is supposed to be a much better sounding amp. I have one and it sounds great. If you go with the Dayton speakers be sure to add some sound deadening material inside the cabinets. From what I have read is that this really improves the sound.

If you decide to go with the GF DAC-11 or the Maverick DAC-1, you may want to ask Tom at Class D audio if he can adjust the impedance of the 254 amp for a lower gain preamp. Both the GF and Mav have a lower gain and don't play as loud as the amp can go (its not a big deal if you are not using Magnapan's like me or you like to listen at ear bleeding levels). The Tube Magic is great for the price but the GF is better IMO. Both are very good for the money. Another option for a preamp is to check out used gear on augiogon.com There are some great deals on some nice used preamps. But if you want a DAC/Preamp combo the GF and Mav. are the way to go.

Thanks once again Poultrygeist and Blackraven. I think I will go with the GF but am also wondering if I have the skills to build a preamp. If I get my confidence up I will get the GF as well as do a build. It seems they are a much more involved build than the Class D amps.
I think I pulled the trigger to soon on the 254 so it is probably too late to have the impedance adjusted unless I want to send it back. Although I am not new to home audio I am new to electronics and matching equipment. So I will probably go with what ever you guys suggest.
Blackraven it sounds like you did not have yours adjusted so I assume it should be OK. If you think it is worth the time, money and effort I could trade up to the SDS or just build them both over time.

Thanks for the reviews of the Dayton amp. It sounds like the Dayton 100 with either the Dayton speakers or the Infinity speakers would be a good match.

You two have really been helpful to me and I really do appreciate it. It seems I am falling rapidly down this rabbit hole. Oh well, it should sound pretty good on the way down. I could actually use a good hobby as age has caught up with some of my outdoor exploits.

If you guys think I might have the skills to build a preamp, I am open to suggestions.

You may be able to increase the gain on the GF DAC-11. Email Ian Grant and he can tell you if it can be done or they may be able to do it before they mail it out. You will love the combo.

With my Sure board amp it was almost plug and play. The only soldering was with the RCA's inputs and speaker terminals once I mounted it in the wooden case I built. I fashioned some stand offs with small bolts and nuts to raise it above the board and board connections were made with set screws already in the board.

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Originally Posted by Poultrygeist

With my Sure board amp it was almost plug and play. The only soldering was with the RCA's inputs and speaker terminals once I mounted it in the wooden case I built. I fashioned some stand offs with small bolts and nuts to raise it above the board and board connections were made with set screws already in the board.

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Can you send me some links for components for the Sure amp?

I was floundering around this morning and ran across these links.
Oswald Mills Audio
Oswaldsmillaudio - Showroom

Favorite Low Watt Speakers (pictures welcomed)

I majored in Industrial Arts and taught shop for a few years. Anything wood pretty much peaks my interest.

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Originally Posted by BoJonJovi

Can you send me some links for components for the Sure amp?

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Sure's eBay page is HERE.

Personally I'm intrigued by their 2x250 wpc IRS2092-based amp, HERE; (the IRS2092 is the same chip used in Class D Audio's offerings).

http://www.sure-electronics.net/Modd...-AB32291_1.jpg

With above you could get a Mean Well 48V switching power supply, HERE. 48V won't give you quite full power which require 60V; also, some people object to switching power supplies, but others are quite happy with them.

http://www.sure-electronics.net/meas...-SP11132_2.jpg

BoJonJovi, the combination of the GF and 254 is a good one. The Maverick also mates well. You will not be disappointed by the sound. It plays plenty loud and is very detailed with excellent bass and control. The GF sounds slightly bright at first but after about 25hrs the tube settles down and things burn in and the sound warms up. You could do a lot worse for under $1000.

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Originally Posted by Feanor

Sure's eBay page is HERE.

Personally I'm intrigued by their 2x250 wpc IRS2092-based amp, HERE; (the IRS2092 is the same chip used in Class D Audio's offerings).

http://www.sure-electronics.net/Modd...-AB32291_1.jpg

With above you could get a Mean Well 48V switching power supply, HERE. 48V won't give you quite full power which require 60V; also, some people object to switching power supplies, but others are quite happy with them.

http://www.sure-electronics.net/meas...-SP11132_2.jpg

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I was looking at those as well. I was not sure what Sure you meant but I had those bookmarked as well. When I first came across them I was a bit confused as many years ago there was I pretty descent audio company for turntable styluses. I think it was Schure. Heck they may still be around.

At any rate they are certainly in the right price range for me. Have you tried any of the cheap china tube amps or preamps from ebay?

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Originally Posted by blackraven

I agree with the Evil Bird above. The DTA 100a is supposed to be a much better sounding amp. I have one and it sounds great. If you go with the Dayton speakers be sure to add some sound deadening material inside the cabinets. From what I have read is that this really improves the sound.

If you decide to go with the GF DAC-11 or the Maverick DAC-1, you may want to ask Tom at Class D audio if he can adjust the impedance of the 254 amp for a lower gain preamp. Both the GF and Mav have a lower gain and don't play as loud as the amp can go (its not a big deal if you are not using Magna's like me or you like to listen at ear bleeding levels). The Tube Magic is great for the price but the GF is better IMO. Both are very good for the money. Another option for a preamp is to check out used gear on augiogon.com There are some great deals on some nice used preamps. But if you want a DAC/Preamp combo the GF and Mav. are the way to go.

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What are you doing for a sub with your maggies?

For years I did not use a sub with my 1.6's or MMG's. I recently added a used Martin Logan Original Dynamo with my 1.6's to fill in the low frequencies below 35Hz. I have it set so that you can only really hear it on bass heavy music. The integration is seemless. I don't use a sub with my MMG's which are in my work out area in my basement. They are pushed out to the corners of the room and really put out deeper bass because of the placement and the CDA-254 amp. I have some sound absorbing material directly behind the speakers so that there is no boom.

The Martin Logan Dynamos (the non ported version's) are a great match for Maggies. They are very musical, fast subs that integrate well with Maggies. Used original Dynamo's go for about $275-$325. The new Dynamo 700 and 1000 models go for a bit more. The 500 model is ported, so stay away from it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoJonJovi

I was looking at those as well. I was not sure what Sure you meant but I had those bookmarked as well. When I first came across them I was a bit confused as many years ago there was I pretty descent audio company for turntable styluses. I think it was Schure. Heck they may still be around.

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Yep, that's Shure, HERE. They still make cartridges & styli as well as headphones, microphones, etc....

http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/publ...mg_m97xe_m.jpg

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Originally Posted by BoJonJovi

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At any rate they are certainly in the right price range for me. Have you tried any of the cheap china tube amps or preamps from ebay?

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No, but I'm tempted.

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Originally Posted by blackraven

For years I did not use a sub with my 1.6's or MMG's. I recently added a used Martin Logan Original Dynamo with my 1.6's to fill in the low frequencies below 35Hz. ...

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Likewise: I run my MG 1.6QR full-range with my PSB Subsonic 5's low-pass set for it's minimum, about 50Hz. Integration is excellent; basically you never here the sub per se, but it's there for the deepest notes.

(I got my PSB from a local guy for $125 -- bargoon!)

This is a Sure board amp and Meanwell PS from Parts Express. PE no longer sells the Sure but I believe their new class D's are better and even cheaper. I used a plexiglass cover over the top and drilled holes over the fans since this picture was taken. I know it looks like an amp in a drawer ( chuckle, chuckle ) but form fits function.
http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/...m/PB160005.JPG

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Originally Posted by Poultrygeist

This is a Sure board amp and Meanwell PS from Parts Express. PE no longer sells the Sure but I believe their new class D's are better and even cheaper. I used a plexiglass cover over the top and drilled holes over the fans since this picture was taken. I know it looks like an amp in a drawer ( chuckle, chuckle ) but form fits function.
http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/...m/PB160005.JPG

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I actually like the amp in a drawer concept. I have often threatened to put a computer in a drawer, I think it would make everything easier for the geek in me. Power supply goes, boom pull the drawer out, upgrade some component, boom pull the drawer out. If all the usb ports were on the front with sound and mic jacks that would be great and very convenient. Same for the amp. A new board comes along from parts express, pull out the drawer, put the jacks on the back switches on the front. Ya I like it.

BoJon,

You said you like DIY and for much less than one sub you can build these two open baffle H-frames ( blue cubes ). The H-frame is nothing more than a 16x16x16 open ended cube with a 15 inch Eminence Alpha full range woofer mounted on a flat baffle at the mid section of the enclosure. The H-frames, unlike plodding subs, are fast and musical. These aren't something I made up so read Martin J.King's OB papers on the subject.

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/...m/P6030023.JPG

I have been so pleased with you Blackraven and Feanor. It seems your interests are similar. I dropped out of high end audio years ago (life happens). Now I am retired and have a renewed interest. I am finding that in high end audio today it appears one can have a beer budget and champagne tastes (really I am just cheap, call it thrifty). I suspect I will definitively be making that sub. How about the light wood speaker in the front, what is it's story? I have an old set of Maggies in a closet that I want to get running. I am thinking of making them into tri-fold room dividers so they don't look like speakers at all; similar to the lighter speaker behind your sub. I also have some old Jenson Electrostatic (purchased 4 decades ago) speakers I want to rebuild as the guts seem fine but the cabinets are pretty rough.
I tried to order the Grant Audio DAC last night but I could not get into their online store.
I also think I am going to order another cheap Class D board to put together.
I spent yesterday morning putting several dusty treasures on Ebay and Craigslist to fund this project. I sold a bike yesterday (new amp), I think my son sold a rifle for me (new amp and preamp), I am getting hits on a couple fly rods I put one ebay (tube amp kit). So I think I can get rid of stuff that has been collecting dust and start some new adventures. You guys have primed me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackraven

BoJonJovi, the combination of the GF and 254 is a good one. The Maverick also mates well. You will not be disappointed by the sound. It plays plenty loud and is very detailed with excellent bass and control. The GF sounds slightly bright at first but after about 25hrs the tube settles down and things burn in and the sound warms up. You could do a lot worse for under $1000.

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I went ahead and ordered the GF. I put a bunch of stuff on craigs list so I almost have it paid for by selling old dusty stuff. Thanks for your help. If I can sell some more old dusty stuff I think I will get another cheapo class D board.

Would this
Antek - AN-05T160
work with this
Buffer 6N3+6Z1/6Z4 Tube Preamp AMP Amplifier Assembled Great Sound Quality NEW | eBay

And would this
Antek - AN-4435
work with this
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

Open baffle speakers like the folding wings above require full range drivers with a Qts. above 5. Here's a link to building a pair using the Betsy 8 inch full range driver.

Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers

I think I can address this one; if anyone has better insight, please speak up ...

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Originally Posted by BoJonJovi

...
And would this
Antek - AN-4435
work with this
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

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With the Sure IRS2092-based module you need a full power supply not just a transformer. The amp module specs suggest 55 - 65 volts; (you'll need to be closer to 65V for full power). The power supply can be a switching mode power supply (SMPS) or a linear supply. If a linear supply, for say +/- 60 volts, you'll need a transformer capable of 60V/1.4 = 43V, that is, +43 volts and -43 volts with a common ground. Also I'd guess you should be looking for 8+ amps output capability. Thus model Antek PS-5N42 might be better.

The Sure Store seems to sell only SMPS; (they are self contained and don't need a transformer). If you want a linear supply you'll have to find one elsewhere.

Another Internet provider that I've heard of is Connexelectronic, HERE. They have a pretty good range of Class D and Class T amp modules as well as SMPS and linear power supplies, (but no transformers). So for the Sure module, Connexelectronics can provide their PS2-6C dual rail linear supply, HERE. You'd need at least their 63 volt, 10,000 uF version or better yet, the 71 volt, 18,000 uF ...

http://connexelectronic.com/images/PS10K50.JPG

Thanks
Looks like I should use what they recommend in the postings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feanor

I think I can address this one; if anyone has better insight, please speak up ...


With the Sure IRS2092-based module you need a full power supply not just a transformer. The amp module specs suggest 55 - 65 volts; (you'll need to be closer to 65V for full power). The power supply can be a switching mode power supply (SMPS) or a linear supply. If a linear supply, for say +/- 60 volts, you'll need a transformer capable of 60V/1.4 = 43V, that is, +43 volts and -43 volts with a common ground. Also I'd guess you should be looking for 8+ amps output capability. Thus model Antek PS-5N42 might be better.

The Sure Store seems to sell only SMPS; (they are self contained and don't need a transformer). If you want a linear supply you'll have to find one elsewhere.

Another Internet provider that I've heard of is Connexelectronic, HERE. They have a pretty good range of Class D and Class T amp modules as well as SMPS and linear power supplies, (but no transformers). So for the Sure module, Connexelectronics can provide their PS2-6C dual rail linear supply, HERE. You'd need at least their 63 volt, 10,000 uF version or better yet, the 71 volt, 18,000 uF ...

http://connexelectronic.com/images/PS10K50.JPG

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Ok, I went back and gave this post a closer read. So if I am reading it correct, for the Sure board I could get either the Connexelectronics 18000 uf or the Antec PS-5N42 but I would need a transformer with either one.
Or
I could go with the Mean Well 48V which would take care of both power and transformer.

Is that correct?

Could you tell me which might sound cleaner and provide optimum power and also recommend a transformer?

I think I am going to go ahead and order the Sure board as I do really want to get all my speakers up and running.

Also, do you know of any instructional videos or how to step by step instructions to assemble the 254 from Class-D audio? This is still the week point of these kits.

I have ordered a couple electronics books and have began reading them. I think I am going to be fine but it is totally different than wiring homes;>)
Thanks Feanor

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoJonJovi

Ok, I went back and gave this post a closer read. So if I am reading it correct, for the Sure board I could get either the Connexelectronics 18000 uf or the Antec PS-5N42 but I would need a transformer with either one.
Or
I could go with the Mean Well 48V which would take care of both power and transformer.

Is that correct?

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Just to be clear, the Antec PS-5N42 is a transformer. I pretty certain from the description that the Sure IRS2092 needs a full power supply. This would be a linear PS consisting of some thing like the Connex board + Antec PS-5N42. Class D Audio's Heavy Duty DC power supply HERE, plus the Antec would also work.

Reading the Sure IRS2092 blurb more carefully I see that they recommend +-50 to +-65 VDC so the 48 VDC Mean Well would be marginal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoJonJovi

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Could you tell me which might sound cleaner and provide optimum power and also recommend a transformer?

I think I am going to go ahead and order the Sure board as I do really want to get all my speakers up and running.

Also, do you know of any instructional videos or how to step by step instructions to assemble the 254 from Class-D audio? This is still the week point of these kits.

I have ordered a couple electronics books and have began reading them. I think I am going to be fine but it is totally different than wiring homes;>)
Thanks Feanor

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I really don't know whether the switching or linear supply would sound better. Purists do lean to a linear supply, however.

To be "safe", just go with the Class D Audio CDA-254L kit, Class D Audio CDA-254L Kit - Amplifier Kits, or the SDS-254 kit. It comes with adequate instructions to connect it up.