New Amp

[blackraven]

Frenchmon, I will probably order the amp around Christmas. We are in the process of putting Brazilian Cherry wood floors in just about every room in the house and will be remodeling our master bath. I definitely want to hear the amp. Do you live in the KC area? I may be taking a trip down there in November.

I think that the only other amp that I am considering is a pair of used NuForce Model 9se monoblocks. They sell for $5K a pair but they can be had for about $2200 used. I would love to find a used Pass or CJ amp but they are going for a lot more. I may sell my boat next year and jump up to a $6K amp or maybe new speakers.

[frenchmon]

No I am in St.Louis. You should order one from Audioadvisor and let it run in.....I think you will love it.

[harley .guy07]

Yeah I played with the thought of getting the NuForce Model 9's my self since I really think a lot of my Nuforce preamp and I really thought about it a few times and almost pulled the trigger on a pair right before I seen My Pass amp on sale from a owner that had it priced to sell and I have not regretted it a minute. the way I see it the Vincent has some really good personal and professional reviews and it might just be the amp to try since with AA you have a return policy. You can't get better than that

[frenchmon]

As audio-hobbyist....Some times when you have such a good thing....and you know it, after a few, you just want to share it with other cats so they can listen as well. You know what I mean? Cause I'm hearing all this wonderful sound, but no one else is hearing it cause no one is around. You guys ever feel that vibe? I mean, because ima tooting my own horn over here, talkin like I got bragging rights, because of what I know I hear, and after a while, ima starting to ask self if its all in my head....you feel me? Am I making this up in my head or does this rig actually sound ridiculously.....,this, dog-gon good! I mean, the SP-331MK took my sound from one level of sound you get with your typical very good hi fi system to not sounding like that at all, but into the upper echelon of sound!

Now im not saying my systems in the level of what I would get with a rig with Tenor mono blocks with a Tenor preamp driving a Walker TT through a pair of supper high end Wilson speakers. Hell naw, my system is every bit of about $11k...nothing like a $200k RIG.But what I am saying....I am getting way beyond what a $2500 amp normally gives you....at least all of the ones I've heard and some even reaching up into the $3500 range as well. I'm getting sound in layers. I mean this sounds over there, thats over here, this is in the middle that sounds coming from the back, that sounds out front and that sounds in the middle and that singer sounds like she is right here and the back ground sings are right there. I even play black gospel choir music and the harmony is absolutely breath taking.... Its all in layers.

Yesterday I put in a CD that I know never ever sounded like this previously in my previous system or any of my previous systems...not even when I owned this same CD on vinyl back in the 80's when it was first released. In fact, there's many CD's and records I've played sense owning the Vincent, that seems to put you right there in the room or studio recording. Yeah, go ahead and give me the old "yeah that's BS" comment, fellas.... its real fellas....and if you aint heard it....well, you got something to strive for because its out there waiting to be discovered by you. I'm not talking about chasing after the "holy grail", cause that don't exist.....but I am talking about a level of sound that is attainable, even if what you heard in the past is believable, (its not sounding live ) because in all your audio-hobbyist days you've yet to hear it. Well THAT is what I felt was truth as well and never experienced it either, but no one else was either because no one has ever listen to the Vincent to see what I was hearing but me! Some how, and some way I convinced my self I was either hearing it or I was delusional. It was really starting to bug me.

Now let me sorta clarify...put into words what I mean here. I've heard people say "it sounds live". Well most of us, who have never experienced it, those of us not in the know, me included as well, would interpret that as one saying when they turn on their hi-fi and play music, its as if it sound like they are physically sitting right there in a live concert. Now that I have experienced it, that's not what they mean. Or at least, what I am experiencing is not as if I am sitting physically right in a live concert....But let me add...dam near it! Thats right...darn near it! Let me explain.

The Vincent is doing something different. Its creating what is called a Venue. It creates atmosphere. It creates the place where the action is taking place. Its as if its created the medium...the surrounding objects or perfect conditions as if you can feel like it real. You know how you watch a good movie and you are really into it as if you can feel your there, but you are sorta outside of the action of the moving looking in? I mean you see the car speeding down the street, hit the curb and flip over and crash into the huge glass window? You where right there and you saw it all as if you where standing there. That's sorta what the Vincent is doing....it puts you right there! Its the Venue, the atmosphere, its created it all right there for you.

Two days ago, I pulled out one of my favorite CD's...my Keith Jerrett with Charlie Haden, Paul Motian and MI MAN, Dewey Redman. Its the "Eye Of The Heart" CD. This is the last time they recorded together as a band and they all decided this would be their last time due to many problems they where having, but none bigger than Dewey Redman's habit of being late due to his wine drinking back stage. This is a great CD...not because of some screaming sax or great piano playing or loud drums...its the complete opposite. Out side of the melody most of it was repeated and made up as they where playing because as usual, Dewey was late getting on stage due to his wine consumption back stage. So Jarrett, Haden and Motion played the same thing over and over again with improvisations that stretched the song out, as they waited for Redman to show. All this is happening without the live audience knowing anything...to them it was just how they rolled, but Jarrett years later would explain what was really going on at the time. Well any way, when Redman did appear, he played the sax in a way I had never heard him play before. He played with so much bravado... romance and passion and the band seem to follow him as he built the sax solo into one of the most beautiful solo's on my all time top sax solo list...I mean full of passion! Turns out his delay due to wine drinking back stage, became one of my all time favorites as well as others who wrote about it years later. The Vincent captured and played it back just wonderful.... had a way of creating the atmosphere and space of the concert in a way that seems to put you there. You're sorta watching the entire thing as you listen. I mean you get a feel for the atmosphere of the concert hall as the 3 are improvising...and then as Redman walks out on stage the audience begains clapping as if he was the super star even though its Jarretts band. The piano, drums, sax and bass seems so real lik...like it was right there in your room, the textures of each instrument, the spacing and the depth...front to back as if you are live, right there....its with you as you listen. Mind you this is all a feeling you get by how good it all sounds.... The Vincent has created the VENUE! And this also goes for studio recordings as well....its like you are sitting there in the control booth and listening to play back of a freshly recorded CD.

But I began to wonder....You remember the Memorex tape commercials of yester year...."Is it live or is it memorex? Well I had been having one of those moments....is this in my head, or has the Vincent stepped up the game and created something fresh... this atmosphere? I had to have a second opinion. So I asked my buddy if he could have his wife drop him at my place and I would take him home. Peabody has Pass Labs separates and his rig is bumping...you know how we say it...off the chain! Well I always value his opinion because he can actually hear the music! If its crap he will tell you in a nice way...Peabody is always soft spoken, I wish I could learn that from him.

Well after firing up the rig, and putting on "Gerardo Frisina" vinyl "Join The Dance" he listening for a while, the first thing he said after listening was "WOW! The second thing he said was "how much you pay for that amp" and after I told him, he said something to the effect of "Man your getting way more sound than what you paid" or something to that effect. Later He went on to say the texture of the instruments had "flesh on the bones"...that the instruments sounded live, like they where in the room....like we where there. He also noted the stage and just how good it was and so forth and so on.

Now what is it about this Amp that pushed the rig onto another planet of performance? After all the only thing I changed out was amps....a very good Rotel amp too The Absolute Sound 2012 Editors' Choice Award" Vincent amp. I know a system is only as good as the weakest link. And that link was the Rotel amp in my system. I believe the Rotel had a very strong house sound that was over powering every thing in my system by pushing its sound through, and not letting the sources have their say. But the Rotel never created Atmosphere of the Venue. I've had the Musical Fidelity CDP 4 years now and only now can I really hear how great it sounds...as well as the TT. The Vento's I feel are some of the best speakers money can buy and I'm not just saying that because I own them, among other things it does well...they can adapt to any genre and do it well with a high level performance, and those who have a chance to hear them usually come away saying they are that good.

I believe because the Vincent is very good in the bass department, it, the bass sorta flavorises and adds to the instruments across the entire ban to give it that "flesh on the bones" which adds the life to the sound. I also believe the Vincent pairing of the amp and preamp may have created some magic as well. But I have no idea how it creates the atmophere of the Venue. That remains a mystery to me. All I know is that it does.

So for all those who say it will never sound like live music. I beg to differ on that front. Its not 100% transporting you into the building and sitting you down in a seat....but its doing something by bringing something special to the party that creates atmosphere. Like I said....I don't know how....all I know is that it does.

[Hyfi]

Interesting writeup. Hybrid amps do some things really well and coupled with the right pre, you get what you now have.

As far as it sounding live, I have never been on that boat for several reasons.
1- Most venues for concerts suck big time
2- Always cranked up too loud leading to distortion
3- bad room acoustics (places where they play hockey, basketball, or football never sound good)

I would never want my system to sound Live like that. Ever been to a Buddy Guy Concert? You would never want your system to sound like that either even though the music is awesome.
As for CDs or albums creating a Venue, unless they were recorded with all musicians together on the stage, I am unsure just what your system is doing. Most stuff anymore is recorded with each musician sitting in an isolated room with headphones on laying down a single track. Then an engineer puts all the tracks together and time corrects them. How can that sound like any Venue?

Anyway, glad you are happy with the setup.

[frenchmon]

lol! Yeah....I was just like you at one point. Then I got the Vincent amp added to my kit, which is in a dedicated 2 channel room with some sound treatment...maple boards for vibration control under gear and gear feet up off the platforms. And as Mr.Peabody said, great synergy with Vincent and Canton. But with the same room and tweaks the magic was not there with the Rotel amp. Once the SP-331 MK was in place, the atmosphere of the music changed for the better. At that point all I had understood about what they meant by live went out the window. I was no longer a non believer. It was as if I was looking into a live performance. the sound stage was right there. Peabody was at my house last week and we where swamping cables in a shoot out. The staging was so good with the different cables, Peabody and I and another friend where having a conversation about where the different cables placed the piano. You have to experience it HyFi. A very good system can give you a soundstage like you are there. I heard it on Peabodys Pass Labs and now my system.


Also...Sounds like you do a lot of loud rock concerts. I don't go to stuff like that any more. If I go its a small acoustic setting in a jazz club. no...when listening to my stereo its not like a loud rock concert....i dont even play loud music anymore and i doubt I reach 70 dbs or come out of class A..a system should be able to give you all you need in performance with out ear bleed levels...but if you like loud ear bleed levels more power to you. but my presentation seems to be in a room with atmosphere..a venue. Its almost like you are in a different place listening to a performance with the way the amp creates a space you can see into with the different spacing and depth of the instruments. There are actually layers of sound. Hyfi...if your system is not giving you that...perhaps you have not reached that level of performance yet. I know others who have...Peabody certainly has...and I have....now you have something to shoot for with your rig. from what you are saying..sounds like you have no depth or 3D and a flat sound stage....you may only have a wall of sound with nothing else. If so, you have no synergy at all.

[Hyfi]

Your kinda preaching to the choir, and I wasn't taking shots at your setup.

I went from an Odyssey Stratos - Sound Valves 101i pre, to a Counterpoint Hybrid along with a Reference Pre of it's day, the VAC CLA1 MKII, driving von Schwiekert speakers.

I have a clue.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Hyfi, I understand where you're coming from. I don't want my system to sound like a live performance either. Frenchie we get it that you like your setup, but it ain't cool to tell someone else that their system has problems if they're not hearing what you're hearing.

[blackraven]

Frenchmon, I get what you are saying and especially about the live sound. My Maggies give a live presentation to acoustic guitar, horns and piano. Vocals are to die for as well.

It sounds like you have found your audio nirvana. It's great that the Vincent has transformed your system. I wish that I lived closer and could hear it. I have a very good friend that recently moved to New Mexico. He was into high end audio and we would spend hours listening to music at his house and mine. I developed a great appreciation for other peoples gear. Its always fun to share and enjoy music with a friend.

[frenchmon]

Thanks for understanding Raven.


Jack and Hyfi....wasnt trying to put down his gear....Just stating maybe his system wasnt doing the things I mentioned.

and ahhh...Hyfi....there are many recording sessions that have a band in one room while recording. Cheskey Records is known for that....many of there recordings are recorded in a church with one special mic out front. These are some great SACD's. And there are some that don't. But the technology of today is still able to give a outstanding recording that's very enjoyable. I have a CD by Elaine Elias recorded in a studio. The recording has great space and air and 3D depth. Wonderful sound stage with layers of sound. Its as if you where there listening. It sound as if you where in the recording studio, in the play back room, listening as if they had just done the recording. It too has atmosphere. I have a live recording of Shirley Horn on vinyl. Audiophile recording. And the system puts you there. I sit and listen....I never have music as back ground music in my two channel room. I don't do serious listening as an audiophile...there comes a time when you have to take off the audiophile hat and put on the music lovers hat and be moved by the music for total enjoyment. I'm sure you know where I'm coming from.

[Hyfi]

Hyfi, I understand where you're coming from. I don't want my system to sound like a live performance either. Frenchie we get it that you like your setup, but it ain't cool to tell someone else that their system has problems if they're not hearing what you're hearing.

No worries Jack, I know exactly what he was saying.

Good thing I am planning to go Dumpster Diving with the boys from AK this weekend with high hopes of finding an killer Sansui so I can retire my tired old VAC-Counterpoint garbage.

[Jack in Wilmington]

No worries Jack, I know exactly what he was saying.

Good thing I am planning to go Dumpster Diving with the boys from AK this weekend with high hopes of finding an killer Sansui so I can retire my tired old VAC-Counterpoint garbage.

See if you can find me an old Kenwood while you're in there.

[frenchmon]

No worries Jack, I know exactly what he was saying.

Good thing I am planning to go Dumpster Diving with the boys from AK this weekend with high hopes of finding an killer Sansui so I can retire my tired old VAC-Counterpoint garbage.

Oh yeah? Then tell me what you think I was saying?

[Hyfi]

Oh yeah? Then tell me what you think I was saying?

Well first of all, if you go back and re-read my original comment, you will see this
"As for CDs or albums creating a Venue, unless they were recorded with all musicians together on the stage, I am unsure just what your system is doing."

My comments about a system sounding live were intended for all recordings except for those where the musicians are actually sitting together. I never said I don't have a soundstage, separation and placement of instruments and the rest of the good sound when playing good recorded music.

You took it upon yourself to belittle my setup, without ever hearing it, and without reading my statements correctly. You just assume now that because you have a decent rig and room that the rest of us are missing out on everything.

I have Chesky recordings and use them to demo all the characteristics you describe above. And for the most part, they use 2 Omni Mics, 1 for each channel. I have plenty of "you are there" recordings.

[frenchmon]

Ok...fair enough, I owe you an apology. I apologize Hy fi.....wasnt meant or trying to run shot or be a put down man. I apologies for what I said.

[Hyfi]

Ok...fair enough, I owe you an apology. I apologize Hy fi.....wasnt meant or trying to run shot or be a put down man. I apologies for what I said.

No sweat. Glad the sound is good.