need pre/pro and amp help........

[krich644]

I am looking for a pre/pro and amp to replace my Marantz sr8000 av receiver. I have polk LSI 15's maians, LSIC center, and LSI Fx surrounds. My sub is a Def tech super cube Reference. i listen to movies and music 50/50. I need a pre/pro and amp that will go well with my system. HELP!!!!!!!!!

P.S. Budget is $5-6k

[Mr Peabody]

If I had your budget here's what I'd listen to for possible purchase. First I would give the Primare A/V integrated a run at $4k. That would be the piece the separates would have to beat, it's great, a real value at that price. Then Classe' has a pre/pro at $3k that I would think is very good. I don't know if amplification would put you out of budget. This piece doesn't have video switching but that's not a problem with most modern TV monitors, they offer several inputs. Then I would take another listen to the Anthem pre/pro at $3k. Their amps are reasonably priced and I'm sure you could stay in budget. I remember they weren't especially bass heavy but still had a nice sound. I personally like keeping in the same brand with separates. Same brands tend to have better synergy. If you have a Krell dealer in your area they are having a trade up special, you can trade your receiver for a Krell Showcase processor and still spend about $3k, again with an amp will most likely be out of budget, unless you go with another amp less expensive with the Krell pre/pro.

Not on my list but Rotel, Adcom & B&K would be in your budget.

Don't let these guys on here try to talk you into buying another receiver. As you do some listening research I think you will discover that the preamp section is one of the most important components in your system, second only to your source. I haven't heard a receiver yet that could match a separate preamp for sound quality. This is a general statement because obviously I haven't heard every model receiver nor preamp. The Arcam receiver is very good sonically. Most here will claim your speakers are the most important component but speakers are the finish line for your music signal, if it didn't start good and was maintained well, what will cross the finish line? Not much. Your source creates the signal not your speakers.

[musicguy04]

All those units, the Primare, the Classe SSP-30MkII, the Anthem AVM20, and the Krell Showcase. Also add in the Parasound Halo C2 and anything else. How do the different pre amplifiers compare in sound quality? I'm not in the market for one right now, but I will be in a little bit. I want stunning home theater, but I guess all units in this price range can do that. Which will provide the absolute best sound (if clarity, detail, and accuracy are the most important aspects) and have the best DACs for digital sources?

I don't care about matching brands, as I will 99% use a different amp to drive my speakers. How do the DACs in these pre/pro's compare to the DAC's in the Arcam CD73? How about an external DAC such as the Benchmark DAC1?

[Mr Peabody]

All those units, the Primare, the Classe SSP-30MkII, the Anthem AVM20, and the Krell Showcase. Also add in the Parasound Halo C2 and anything else. How do the different pre amplifiers compare in sound quality? I'm not in the market for one right now, but I will be in a little bit. I want stunning home theater, but I guess all units in this price range can do that. Which will provide the absolute best sound (if clarity, detail, and accuracy are the most important aspects) and have the best DACs for digital sources?

I don't care about matching brands, as I will 99% use a different amp to drive my speakers. How do the DACs in these pre/pro's compare to the DAC's in the Arcam CD73? How about an external DAC such as the Benchmark DAC1?

All of these would sound very good and which is best depends on what you like. I haven't A/B all of these side by side but I'd think any of them would sound better than the Arcam in music playback of CD's and the Arcam is very good. Typically, Krell is said to be detailed and a bit on the cold side, Primare has awesome steering of sound effects for HT, for music their sound stage is smaller more intimate and warmer than Krell. I have not heard the Classe pre/pro yet, I have only heard some older model cdp & amps which I thought sounded very nice. You'll have to give them a listen and see which tickles your fancy. What is best is very subjective, we will empower you to make that decision. You may not be in the market now but it wouldn't hurt to start listening and learning now.

[mtrycraft]

I am looking for a pre/pro and amp to replace my Marantz sr8000 av receiver. I have polk LSI 15's maians, LSIC center, and LSI Fx surrounds. My sub is a Def tech super cube Reference. i listen to movies and music 50/50. I need a pre/pro and amp that will go well with my system. HELP!!!!!!!!!

P.S. Budget is $5-6k

What's wrong with the Marantz?

[psonic]

What's wrong with the Marantz?

Whats wrong with wanting something better?

If one has the money to spare, whats wrong with the extra current delivery, lower distortion, higher damping factor of a more expensive design? Do you actually think the 100wpc rating of recievers means the amp section put the same overall power and finesse of larger heavier separates with same rating? Have you listened to 100wpc receivers drive heavy loads like Martin Logan or Dynaudio?

[mtrycraft]

Whats wrong with wanting something better?

Better what? In what respect? Or, more expensive is the answer?

whats wrong with the extra current delivery,

Nothing if the speaker loaddemands it.

lower distortion,

Can you hear lower distortion? Really? Under bias controlled conditions? Or, just speculating here.

higher damping factor

Higher than what? Meaningless. Audio voodoo.

of a more expensive design?

Is this rocket science? Really? Evidence please.

Do you actually think the 100wpc rating of recievers means the amp section put the same overall power

If the amp is rated for 100watts RMS inot a load it better deliver that power.

and finesse of larger heavier separates with same rating?

What finess? Are you speculating about something you have no clue about?

Have you listened to 100wpc receivers drive heavy loads like Martin Logan or Dynaudio?

If the receiver is designed for the load, it will drive it. If not designed for the load, it will not. Rather simple. Too simple.

[krich644]

What's wrong with the Marantz?

Nothing is wrong with my marantz!

I have listened to better systems than mine and they have always included separates and now that I can afford to, I want to improve on what I’m currently listening to.

[Resident Loser]

..."I have listened to better systems than mine and they have always included separates and now that I can afford to, I want to improve on what I’m currently listening to..."

"better"? What is it that makes them better? Contrary to some of the hogwash spewed about the place, loudspeakers and the environment they are required to operate in, are the most important factors in what you hear...Isn't it possible that those other "systems" have had more care taken in their set-up and calibration which results in a perceived quality level?...or perhaps you simply prefer the sound of the other loudspeakers...any single piece of gear that imparts a "sound" to the signal is in reality a distortion and a departure from the old and time-tested ideal of "straight wire with gain"...you should really try to determine, using YOUR ears and YOUR preferences, what is it about these other systems that you find appealing. Throwing money at a "problem" is not a particularly efficient way of dispensing with it, and most certainly if you don't know why the "problem" is there to begin with.

I believe in separate components. They are much more flexible, that does not mean however, they are THE answer. I also believe HT and it's variants to be a waste of space.

Keep in mind, most of the gear in this price range will be of a minimalist mindset, eschewing things like tone controls...but that's OK...you can spend the rest of your life searching for the Grail("better"-ness) by endlessly auditioning interconnects and speaker cables to take their place...and then of course there's at least five channels of amplification to deal with if you go with separates and there are always tubes(valves) to consider, so you'll need more AC sources and after-market IEC/CE sanctioned power cords, power line conditioners, hospital-grade, cryo-treated outlets(with copper contacts lovingly crafted from ores transported by Peruvian virgins), a dedicated circuit and breaker...cable bridges, marble plinths, sand bags, lead shot and maybe a picture of "Fatty" Arbuckle to grace your listening area(I hear tell it does wonders for the mid-range)...so much for your budget!

jimHJJ(...just some food for thought...)

[psonic]

"better"? What is it that makes them better? Contrary to some of the hogwash spewed about the place, loudspeakers and the environment they are required to operate in, are the most important factors in what you hear.

Again I say Whats wrong with wanting something better?

If one has the money to spare, whats wrong with the extra current delivery, lower distortion, higher damping factor of a more expensive design? Do you actually think the 100wpc rating of recievers means the amp section put the same overall power and finesse of larger heavier separates with same rating? Have you listened to 100wpc receivers drive heavy loads like Martin Logan or Dynaudio? How about large floorstanders like he has? What about a receivers smaller power supply & caps, lack of discreet output stages, noisier preamp stages and higher THD???? This has no bearing on sound, especially when driving a large speaker?

Beyond that, and more importantly, there are people who post here, only popping out to dispute or insult a nice guys intentions, and twist it into "why are you doing that? For those individuals, what is wrong with respecting what a friendly guy is asking of us? He did not ask to critique his decision, he has kindly asked for recommended preamp processors - if you don't have this to offer why post or insult the guy on his decisioning? Because that is what is looks like to me..

PLEASE IGNORE ANTAGONISTIC INDIVIDUALS LIKE RESIDENT LOSER, MTRYCRAFT WHO ARE NOT HERE TO KINDLY ANSWER THE QUESTION. AS YOU CAN SEE THEY ONLY WANT TO BATTLE YOUR PREMISE...WARNING TO THESE INDIVIDUALS - THIS IS AN AUDIO AMPS/PREAMPS BOARD - NOT SPEAKER PLACEMENT, RECEIVER, CALIBRATION, SETUP, ETC. THE HOME THEATER BOARD IS BETTER SUITED TO RESPONSES, QUESTIONS SUCH AS YOURS.

[psonic]

BTW, I respect your desicion to go with separates and offer your speakers both more and cleaner current. I recommend B&K, the Reference 50 I have auditioned and liked. Definately under your budget and worth a listen. FWIW I enjoy their amps as well...

http://www.bkcomp.com/ref50.asp

[Resident Loser]

...What and how did I dispute anything?

Did I forbid him to want or purchase anything "better"? Whatever "better" means.

I advised the poster to identify the qualities he likes in these other systems and try to emulate them within his own before upgrading to something that may not produce the desired results. This to you is a disputational, critical or insulting response? This indicates to me that you barely habla Ingles much less the catch-phrase laden jargon you seem so adept at tossing about...

BTW Einstein, in case you were unaware of this simple fact, the audio and/or HT chain is quite dependent on a myriad of devices working in concert...there is no real delineation between them or any of the individual boards @ this site...crossovers can and do occur HERE and in actual practice.

WARNING: I WOULDN"T TAKE PSONIC"S ADVICE ON A DARE>>>IF IT WEREN"T FOR HIS AUTONOMIC NERVOUS SYSTEM HE WOULDN"T KNOW HOW TO BREATHE!!!

jimHJJ(...Aw shucks, did I hit a nerve and burst your little "Audiophile in Wonderland" mythology...)

Addendum: thanx for mentioning myself and Mtry in the same context, it is truly an honor! Now I know I've made it!

[mtrycraft]

PLEASE IGNORE ANTAGONISTIC INDIVIDUALS LIKE RESIDENT LOSER, MTRYCRAFT WHO ARE NOT HERE TO KINDLY ANSWER THE QUESTION. AS YOU CAN SEE THEY ONLY WANT TO BATTLE YOUR PREMISE...WARNING TO THESE INDIVIDUALS - THIS IS AN AUDIO AMPS/PREAMPS BOARD - NOT SPEAKER PLACEMENT, RECEIVER, CALIBRATION, SETUP, ETC. THE HOME THEATER BOARD IS BETTER SUITED TO RESPONSES, QUESTIONS SUCH AS YOURS.

What's the matter, your audio faith is threatened? Your beliefe system is so fragile that it cannot stand up to questioning and scrutiny?
Perhaps if you were better equipped, you would not need to wanr people but can stand on your feet and support yourself.

[krich644]

..."I have listened to better systems than mine and they have always included separates and now that I can afford to, I want to improve on what I’m currently listening to..."

"better"? What is it that makes them better? Contrary to some of the hogwash spewed about the place, loudspeakers and the environment they are required to operate in, are the most important factors in what you hear...Isn't it possible that those other "systems" have had more care taken in their set-up and calibration which results in a perceived quality level?...or perhaps you simply prefer the sound of the other loudspeakers...any single piece of gear that imparts a "sound" to the signal is in reality a distortion and a departure from the old and time-tested ideal of "straight wire with gain"...you should really try to determine, using YOUR ears and YOUR preferences, what is it about these other systems that you find appealing. Throwing money at a "problem" is not a particularly efficient way of dispensing with it, and most certainly if you don't know why the "problem" is there to begin with.

I believe in separate components. They are much more flexible, that does not mean however, they are THE answer. I also believe HT and it's variants to be a waste of space.

Keep in mind, most of the gear in this price range will be of a minimalist mindset, eschewing things like tone controls...but that's OK...you can spend the rest of your life searching for the Grail("better"-ness) by endlessly auditioning interconnects and speaker cables to take their place...and then of course there's at least five channels of amplification to deal with if you go with separates and there are always tubes(valves) to consider, so you'll need more AC sources and after-market IEC/CE sanctioned power cords, power line conditioners, hospital-grade, cryo-treated outlets(with copper contacts lovingly crafted from ores transported by Peruvian virgins), a dedicated circuit and breaker...cable bridges, marble plinths, sand bags, lead shot and maybe a picture of "Fatty" Arbuckle to grace your listening area(I hear tell it does wonders for the mid-range)...so much for your budget!

jimHJJ(...just some food for thought...)

The systems I am referring to are pre/pro/ and amp that I have listened to in my home with my speakers in an A/B with my Marantz. I have listened to the Parasound halo C2 and A51 two-day loner from my brother and B&K Ref 50 and 2007 amp dealer loner from local dealer. (Bi- amping my mains with the two additional channels). Both systems wear sonicly superior to my Marantz in my opinion and both pre/pros offered greater set up flexibility, bass management, ETC). I was just wondering if any of my fellow A/V enthusiasts could offer any recommendations. Although I was pleased with both systems, I would like to listen to other systems before I spend my money.

Thanks for your input,
Krich

[mtrycraft]

The systems I am referring to are pre/pro/ and amp that I have listened to in my home with my speakers in an A/B with my Marantz. I have listened to the Parasound halo C2 and A51 two-day loner from my brother and B&K Ref 50 and 2007 amp dealer loner from local dealer. (Bi- amping my mains with the two additional channels). Both systems wear sonicly superior to my Marantz in my opinion and both pre/pros offered greater set up flexibility, bass management, ETC). I was just wondering if any of my fellow A/V enthusiasts could offer any recommendations. Although I was pleased with both systems, I would like to listen to other systems before I spend my money.

Thanks for your input,
Krich

But how reliable, bias free was your comparison? Doesn't sound like it was a fair comparison at all. Did you level match the setups to 0.1dB spl? Did you compare under bias controls? If not, your listeing is rather unreliable. Who knows what the reality was.

[Mr Peabody]

RL, anyone who read the post knows what's wrong with Marantz. The guy wants something better, he tried two other products and knows, to his ears there is something better. He wants to know what others think is better.

Topspeed and the others are correct and have accurately pegged Mrtycraft. I don't know what his purpose here is but it's not to help or show much knowledge in audio. I think Mtrycraft needs a life. Is goal seems to be how many posts he can do and how much agitation he can cause. He is like the guy in the Monty Python skit, I came in here for an argument, no you didn't, yes I did. Your time is up. No it's not. etc.
I have to say though, I was patting him on the back when he gave Terrence a taste of his own medicine.

When you read the post "what audio equipment do you own?" you will notice the majority of responses are people who just own receivers. This tells me that not too many here really have experience or understand higher end equipment. I think that's why so many want to try to convince everyone that a receiver is as good as anything out there. On the other hand there are many here who are knowledgeable and can contribute and help. As you say though, one will have to read both sides and do some listening for themselves.

[46minaudio]

RL, anyone who read the post knows what's wrong with Marantz. The guy wants something better, he tried two other products and knows, to his ears there is something better. He wants to know what others think is better.

Topspeed and the others are correct and have accurately pegged Mrtycraft. I don't know what his purpose here is but it's not to help or show much knowledge in audio. I think Mtrycraft needs a life. Is goal seems to be how many posts he can do and how much agitation he can cause. He is like the guy in the Monty Python skit, I came in here for an argument, no you didn't, yes I did. Your time is up. No it's not. etc.
I have to say though, I was patting him on the back when he gave Terrence a taste of his own medicine.

When you read the post "what audio equipment do you own?" you will notice the majority of responses are people who just own receivers. This tells me that not too many here really have experience or understand higher end equipment. I think that's why so many want to try to convince everyone that a receiver is as good as anything out there. On the other hand there are many here who are knowledgeable and can contribute and help. As you say though, one will have to read both sides and do some listening for themselves.

Yet you have the nerve to ? mtry.When have u ever A/Bed any of this gear.?when you have please post back.Until then your post are nothing but bull****..

[Mr Peabody]

[QUOTE=46minaudio]Yet you have the nerve to ? mtry.When have u ever A/Bed any of this gear.?when you have please post back.Until then your post are nothing but bull****..

I have heard most of the gear I refer to and that, I haven't, I say so or say what I base my opinion on.

When have you A/B'd or even heard anything similar to the gear mentioned? If that was a prerequisite for posting here, most of you would disappear.

[46minaudio]

[QUOTE=Mr Peabody][QUOTE=46minaudio]Yet you have the nerve to ? mtry.When have u ever A/Bed any of this gear.?when you have please post back.Until then your post are nothing but bull****..

I have heard most of the gear I refer to and that, I haven't, I say so or say what I base my opinion on.

I will ask again.Haye you A/Bd any of these units side by side level matched to within .5dbs using the same speakers. under blind conditions.?It is really a simple yes or no answer.

When have you A/B'd or even heard anything similar to the gear mentioned? If that was a prerequisite for posting here, most of you would disappear.

Yes.Next up will be a highly reccomended Adcom GFP 750 I have just purchased.I will be using a Aragon 8008st for both the RXV 1400 in direct stereo (using the frt preouts) and the 750..

[Mr Peabody]

I have A/B'd some equipment level matched but mostly cd players and speakers, rarely preamps.

I have heard the GFP 750 compared to their 450 and couldn't hear much difference. I lost respect for those Stereophile recommendations after that.

I wish I could be part of your test. I would either have to eat crow or I would throw off your curve. I have a critical ear for detail, I would be surprised if I didn't hear some difference. On the other hand, I notice when I know it's a listening test or someone is expecting my observation that the additional pressure is hendering.