need pre/pro and amp help........

[psonic]

"better"? What is it that makes them better? Contrary to some of the hogwash spewed about the place, loudspeakers and the environment they are required to operate in, are the most important factors in what you hear.

Again I say Whats wrong with wanting something better?

If one has the money to spare, whats wrong with the extra current delivery, lower distortion, higher damping factor of a more expensive design? Do you actually think the 100wpc rating of recievers means the amp section put the same overall power and finesse of larger heavier separates with same rating? Have you listened to 100wpc receivers drive heavy loads like Martin Logan or Dynaudio? How about large floorstanders like he has? What about a receivers smaller power supply & caps, lack of discreet output stages, noisier preamp stages and higher THD???? This has no bearing on sound, especially when driving a large speaker?

Beyond that, and more importantly, there are people who post here, only popping out to dispute or insult a nice guys intentions, and twist it into "why are you doing that? For those individuals, what is wrong with respecting what a friendly guy is asking of us? He did not ask to critique his decision, he has kindly asked for recommended preamp processors - if you don't have this to offer why post or insult the guy on his decisioning? Because that is what is looks like to me..

PLEASE IGNORE ANTAGONISTIC INDIVIDUALS LIKE RESIDENT LOSER, MTRYCRAFT WHO ARE NOT HERE TO KINDLY ANSWER THE QUESTION. AS YOU CAN SEE THEY ONLY WANT TO BATTLE YOUR PREMISE...WARNING TO THESE INDIVIDUALS - THIS IS AN AUDIO AMPS/PREAMPS BOARD - NOT SPEAKER PLACEMENT, RECEIVER, CALIBRATION, SETUP, ETC. THE HOME THEATER BOARD IS BETTER SUITED TO RESPONSES, QUESTIONS SUCH AS YOURS.

[psonic]

BTW, I respect your desicion to go with separates and offer your speakers both more and cleaner current. I recommend B&K, the Reference 50 I have auditioned and liked. Definately under your budget and worth a listen. FWIW I enjoy their amps as well...

http://www.bkcomp.com/ref50.asp

[Resident Loser]

...What and how did I dispute anything?

Did I forbid him to want or purchase anything "better"? Whatever "better" means.

I advised the poster to identify the qualities he likes in these other systems and try to emulate them within his own before upgrading to something that may not produce the desired results. This to you is a disputational, critical or insulting response? This indicates to me that you barely habla Ingles much less the catch-phrase laden jargon you seem so adept at tossing about...

BTW Einstein, in case you were unaware of this simple fact, the audio and/or HT chain is quite dependent on a myriad of devices working in concert...there is no real delineation between them or any of the individual boards @ this site...crossovers can and do occur HERE and in actual practice.

WARNING: I WOULDN"T TAKE PSONIC"S ADVICE ON A DARE>>>IF IT WEREN"T FOR HIS AUTONOMIC NERVOUS SYSTEM HE WOULDN"T KNOW HOW TO BREATHE!!!

jimHJJ(...Aw shucks, did I hit a nerve and burst your little "Audiophile in Wonderland" mythology...)

Addendum: thanx for mentioning myself and Mtry in the same context, it is truly an honor! Now I know I've made it!

[psonic]

...What and how did I dispute anything?

Did I forbid him to want or purchase anything "better"? Whatever "better" means.

I advised the poster to identify the qualities he likes in these other systems and try to emulate them within his own before upgrading to something that may not produce the desired results. This to you is a disputational, critical or insulting response? This indicates to me that you barely habla Ingles much less the catch-phrase laden jargon you seem so adept at tossing about...

BTW Einstein, in case you were unaware of this simple fact, the audio and/or HT chain is quite dependent on a myriad of devices working in concert...there is no real delineation between them or any of the individual boards @ this site...crossovers can and do occur HERE and in actual practice.

WARNING: I WOULDN"T TAKE PSONIC"S ADVICE ON A DARE>>>IF IT WEREN"T FOR HIS AUTONOMIC NERVOUS SYSTEM HE WOULDN"T KNOW HOW TO BREATHE!!!

jimHJJ(...Aw shucks, did I hit a nerve and burst your little "Audiophile in Wonderland" mythology...)

Addendum: thanx for mentioning myself and Mtry in the same context, it is truly an honor! Now I know I've made it!

You disputed his motives, very uncalled for, that is an insult...in case you are blind he is asking for recommendations, not setup or your opinion of home theater. Again, wrong forum and completely unrelated to his post.

Yes I am audio enthusiast, I thought that was why were here, not to bash or question ones motives or moves.

BTW you have not answered my questions...all you do is start attacking me now, shows us a lot about you...

Again no answer to my questions, see my questions were directed specifically at what he is concerned about - which was deserving of straight answers from you since you were there to dispute his move not recommend a pre/pro.

Again,

If one has the money to spare, whats wrong with the extra current delivery, lower distortion, higher damping factor of a more expensive design? Do you actually think the 100wpc rating of recievers means the amp section put the same overall power and finesse of larger heavier separates with same rating? Have you listened to 100wpc receivers drive heavy loads like Martin Logan or Dynaudio? How about large floorstanders like he has? What about a receivers smaller power supply & caps, lack of discreet output stages, noisier preamp stages and higher THD???? This has no bearing on sound, especially when driving a large speaker?

[Resident Loser]

...Am I restricted in what I can or cannot address in my response?

Yes, he is asking for recommendations...I gave him mine...if he doesn't like it well, that's one thing...he can ignore it...if you don't, that's TS...I'll validate your TFB card upon departure.

I can't believe how anyone could make any sort of informed decision about a sizable expenditure based on the flavor of the moment as provided in these forums...whether it be speakers, cables, electronics, whatever!

And YOU still don't get it...it's called research, it's called system analysis...a rational methodology...it's not just about throwing money at things. And, prithee, what was wrong with mtry asking what was wrong with Marantz...is your mind so enfeelbled by inhalation of green marker that you have become paranoid and delusional, seeing ulterior motives in all questions?

And FYI, I have a vintage HK Citation 19 amp, broadband, high current 100wpc amp driving difficult speakers that sucked the life out of a 60wpc integrated in a puff of green smoke, so yes I'm fully aware of everything I need to be. SO...kindly take your condescending jargon and stuff it back in your pie-hole...I have guitar picks older than you!

jimHJJ(...if you can't stand the heat, etc...)

[psonic]

...Am I restricted in what I can or cannot address in my response?

I can't believe how anyone could make any sort of informed decision about a sizable expenditure based on the flavor of the moment as provided in these forums...whether it be speakers, cables, electronics, whatever! And YOU still don't get it...it's called research, it's called system analysis...a rational methodology...it's not just about throwing money at things.

And, prithee, what was wrong with mtry asking what was wrong with Marantz...

I kindly did, as did others, advise him to go listen...that would include an in-home audition vs. the Marantz. He could then decide for himself based on what he hears. System analysis and setup is important, agreed, but it doesn't make up for a sub-par amplifier, especially with towers. And again, outside the context of the original question. I am quite aware of and fond of vintage gear, receivers included. I know there are a few very high dollar receivers that can deliver current in difficult loads much like separates. I happen to know for a fact the newer Marantz will not control those speakers like your H/K would, but that is beyond the scope of his question also. And, he is not using a vintage H/K. And, the vintage H/K is not ideal for H/T. He obviously knows the pros and cons of modern mass-market receivers vs. separates in controlling speakers in dynamic music and with varying speaker loads. His judgement in looking at separates is justified & there is nothing wrong at all with asking for recommended components as he did, however questioning his judgement and decisioning (in a round about or semi-direct way) as you and Mtry attempted to do is not respectful to a member...along with your personal attacks which is nothing less than weak and lacking in class.


krich644, I reiterate, IMO the in-home audition is the best bet. I don't see any reason a good dealer wouldn't loan you a pre/pro and amp for a weekend demo. Best part is, it's free! Enjoy and as always never let anyone get in the way of what you have researched and want to do...

[Resident Loser]

..."...you should really try to determine, using YOUR ears and YOUR preferences, what is it about these other systems that you find appealing. Throwing money at a "problem" is not a particularly efficient way of dispensing with it, and most certainly if you don't know why the "problem" is there to begin with."

That was part of my response to the poster...did you ignore that...go back and re-read it without the "shoot the messenger attitude"

Whatever "personal attacks" emerged resulted from your BOLDFACED assault and WARNING, so don't start crying now...

jimHJJ(...don't start what you can't finish...)

[psonic]

..."...you should really try to determine, using YOUR ears and YOUR preferences, what is it about these other systems that you find appealing. Throwing money at a "problem" is not a particularly efficient way of dispensing with it, and most certainly if you don't know why the "problem" is there to begin with."

That was part of my response to the poster...did you ignore that...go back and re-read it without the "shoot the messenger attitude"

Whatever "personal attacks" emerged resulted from your BOLDFACED assault and WARNING, so don't start crying now...

jimHJJ(...don't start what you can't finish...)

So you are assuming he does not know already what about separates he finds appealing or what the "problem" is? How can you assume this? How can you assume he does not know about H/T setup? Asking for a recommended pre/pro does not lead one to this conclusion. He obviously knows, he's asking for recommended components to audition. Is it that hard for you to figure out he wants something with lots of clean current delivery for his towers?

As for the "throwing money at" and "if you don't know" bits - taking recommends IS part of research and analysis in shopping for stereo gear. We don't run out and buy the first recommend, it's just something that goes on one's audition list. The boldface warning was to let him know your not here to help with his need; making assumptions about his knowledge and questioning his motive. Based on that the warning statement is factual.

[mtrycraft]

PLEASE IGNORE ANTAGONISTIC INDIVIDUALS LIKE RESIDENT LOSER, MTRYCRAFT WHO ARE NOT HERE TO KINDLY ANSWER THE QUESTION. AS YOU CAN SEE THEY ONLY WANT TO BATTLE YOUR PREMISE...WARNING TO THESE INDIVIDUALS - THIS IS AN AUDIO AMPS/PREAMPS BOARD - NOT SPEAKER PLACEMENT, RECEIVER, CALIBRATION, SETUP, ETC. THE HOME THEATER BOARD IS BETTER SUITED TO RESPONSES, QUESTIONS SUCH AS YOURS.

What's the matter, your audio faith is threatened? Your beliefe system is so fragile that it cannot stand up to questioning and scrutiny?
Perhaps if you were better equipped, you would not need to wanr people but can stand on your feet and support yourself.

[topspeed]

Marty,

Were you planning on answering Krich's post at some time or were you just going to start wars with everyone that tried to offer their opinion? Just curious...

[mtrycraft]

Marty,

Were you planning on answering Krich's post at some time or were you just going to start wars with everyone that tried to offer their opinion? Just curious...

His post has been answerd well enough. But some other posters here need responding to as well. Is that OK by you?

[musicguy04]

I have been experimenting with different systems and auditioning different systems for about a month or so, and here is what I have to say. By far, speakers and speaker positioning make the most difference, hands down. The CD player/source component does make a difference. The quality of the tranport (most players are pretty good at this), the DAC and the analog output stage does make a difference. Of course there is a point of diminishing returns, and that depends on how much $ you've got and what sound you like. Cables (in my opinion) don't make that much difference, as long as they're thick and better than the cheap zip cord that comes with the components. Video cables do make a difference, but no need to go crazy. Processor is basically similar to DAC quality and analog output stage quality.
The amp does make a difference in its ability to accurately amplify the source. It should have a very fast response time and decent feedback, although different people will prefer different sounds. An amp with higher current capacity can handle harder speaker loads. This will impact that sound, so there is a valid reason into someone wanting to switch amps. I'm still relatively new, so don't blast me if something isn't right. I don't think there's any right and wrong way to look at this. It's very subjective, but yes, I've noticed differences in sound quality all across the board. As to what's better, depends on the individual.

[mtrycraft]

I have been experimenting with different systems and auditioning different systems for about a month or so,

Great. But, you need to know that perception and hearing are two different quantities. Perception can be unreliabls due to human bias that cannot be controlled. The brain is prone to fill in missing information or no information at times.

By far, speakers and speaker positioning make the most difference, hands down.

Yes.

The CD player/source component does make a difference. The quality of the tranport (most players are pretty good at this), the DAC and the analog output stage does make a difference.


Yet to be demonstrated universally. Not too long ago, a DBT between an $80 RCS changer and CD players costing $1000s didn't differentiate them apart.

Video cables do make a difference, but no need to go crazy.

Yet to be demonstrated for home applications.


The amp does make a difference in its ability to accurately amplify the source.

Yep, SS seems to do better at this.

different people will prefer different sounds.

Well, research just doesn't support you on this.

An amp with higher current capacity can handle harder speaker loads.

You mean the ones rated for continuous operation with 4 ohm load or less?

This will impact that sound, so there is a valid reason into someone wanting to switch amps.


Only if that speaker is such a difficult load and is not sensitive.

I'm still relatively new, so don't blast me if something isn't right.

We're just discussing here

I don't think there's any right and wrong way to look at this.

Well, there are facts and then there are preferences

It's very subjective, but yes, I've noticed differences in sound quality all across the board. As to what's better, depends on the individual.

Biased observation? Improper setup? A whole number of reasons why, least of all real differences.

[topspeed]

His post has been answerd[sic] well enough.

Sorry, I must have missed it. What was your recommendation again?

[mtrycraft]

Sorry, I must have missed it. What was your recommendation again?

Do I need to recommend to the original poter before answering someone else? Maybe I should ask permission from you first?

[topspeed]

Maybe I should ask permission from you first?

Well yes, that would be preferrable but hardly efficient .

Marty, you're an interesting character. You hang out on an audio board (you very well may have more posts here than any other member) yet most of the time rarely choose to answer the question given and instead hijack the thread by debating other posters. If you like to debate, you should have become an attorney (or at the very least spend more time in the Off Topic forum) . It just seems like you argue simply for arguments sake. Like I said; interesting.

It's like a motorcycle guy hanging out with car guys, close but no cigar.

FWIW, I'm not trying to start a debate with you...just trying to understand you a little better.

[46minaudio]

Ive got a Lexicon DC1V3.Im selling..Let me know if you want it...?