More bang for the buck?

[Hyfi]

Last week I dropped off my old Hafler 9180 amp along with my Audio Alchemy DAC to RHB Sound Dezign for repairs.

RHB is a well known modifier of high end tube equipment and lots of positive feedback can be found over at Audiogon as well as testimonials on their site.

They brought my Counterpoint NPS400 back to life when I got it and we briefly talked then of possible mods. Friday, while there looking at all the beautiful work they do on CJs and the likes, I asked Bob where the best bang for my buck would be, moddding the VAC Pre or the Counterpoint amp. Without hesitation he said the Pre. They can do many things but a basic Mod is to have them design and build a custom gain board, re-map the existing pc board to accept their custom one, and a set of Teflon V Caps. He also said that he would eliminate one of the 2 sets of tubes. He explained that the way my VAC is designed, it goes through the set of 12AXs giving it one gain parameter, then the signal goes through the set of 12AUs multiplying the gain again and then to control it, it gets fed through a feedback loop which increases the distortion.

Their custom Gold-J board changes all that and would only require the one set of tubes, the 12AXs I think.

So I asked what I would notice and the first thing he said was that all the distortion (that I didn't even know or realize) would be gone. Other things include better handling of bass as well as depth of bass. Things that are more in your face would be dropped back a bit, while things that appear too far away would be moved forward giving me a more linear sound.

The emails and letters section of their website go into further detail as to what people got back after the mods which substantiate the above plus more. The entries I found over at Audiogon again confirmed that what they do makes one's Pre amps and Amps so good that the owners cannot see themselves parting with the gear.

Bob told me what they can do for the Amp but as far as most for the money, the Pre would be the first place to start, then the Power Supply of the VAC which is a separate outboard box can be upgraded, then look into the amp itself.

The cost of the mods for my VAC, which include them custom designing their board since it would be the first CLA1 MKII that they would mod, along with the V-Caps that run about $200 a piece, would cost me about $1000. It would bring my $6500 originally priced Reference Pre from the 90s back up to a reference Pre of today. (I barely paid $100 for the pre in a package deal and re-tubed it for $50) My wife has agreed to give me the Mod for my 50th B-day later this year.

Any thoughts as to agree, disagree or other as far as getting the most for my money by modding the Pre amp and not the Amp?

Side Note: I had him check out the Power Supply of my Audio Alchemy DAC to see if it was the PS or the unit itself giving me grief. When getting nothing from the output jack of the PS, he metered across the prongs of the AC plug and pretty much determined that the Transformer must be stuck open. It's all inside a molded and glued plastic box, and he said he can repair it but it may not be pretty. I told him that is what electrical tape is for. I don't really care what it looks like when he is done, only that I can use the DAC and not have to spend $200 on a new supply.

Their usual backlog is 3 to 4 weeks, always, so I have several weeks to wait to get my Hafler and DAC back.

[Mr Peabody]

Hyfi, it sounds like the mod provides a nice improvement in performance and I don't know of any preamp you could buy for $1k that might have a chance at sounding better so it seems like a good move.

[JoeE SP9]

Were it me the preamp would get the works!

Sounds (pun intended) like a fabulous birthday present.

I imagine the wife is in for one bodacious present on her birthday!

[Feanor]

I have an upgrade option with my Sonic Frontiers Line 1 preamp. Several people have suggest the "SE" upgrade available from Parts ConneXion this would run me $800+ including shipping to and from PCX.

Sonic Frontiers was sold along with parent, Anthem, to the group that owns Paradigm (speakers) a few years ago, and no SF modes are currently manufactured. However, the owner of PCX, Chris Johnson, was president of Anthem/SF back in the day and knows a thing or two about Sonic Frontiers, Anthem, and Assemblage equipment. I'd have full confidence in his upgrades. He does an 'SE' and also 'SE+' upgrades on the SF Line 1.

However there are various other things I could do with $800.

Outside Line 1 ...



Inside Line 1 ...

[Poultrygeist]

I would never shell out $$$ for expensive mods without a history of others having success with the same exact mod on the same unit. Throwing in a bunch of expensive caps may not make a bit of difference in sq. Cheap mods like the $20 diode mod on my cheapo MiniWatt however can be worth the risk when you know the original designer cut corners to reach a low price point.

I build my own speakers but only those proven designs with supporting data. The placebo effect is rampant in home audio.

[Ajani]

I would never shell out $$$ for expensive mods without a history of others having success with the same exact mod on the same unit. Throwing in a bunch of expensive caps may not make a bit of difference in sq. Cheap mods like the $20 diode mod on my cheapo MiniWatt however can be worth the risk when you know the original designer cut corners to reach a low price point.

I build my own speakers but only those proven designs with supporting data. The placebo effect is rampant in home audio.

Yep, I wouldn't recommend any mod that hasn't been proven by numerous happy customers... Just replacing cheap parts with more expensive ones, may change the sound but not necessarily for the better...

[Hyfi]

Yep, I wouldn't recommend any mod that hasn't been proven by numerous happy customers... Just replacing cheap parts with more expensive ones, may change the sound but not necessarily for the better...

RHB has a great reputation and their Mods are top notch. You can search Audiogon for the company name and find many very happy customers, some who state that they would never be able to sell the gear that was modded.

I have been in the shop several times and seen the work they do first hand. Their process includes listening to the component when it comes in, then if they have not already created the gain board for that particular pc of gear they do so. After all the work is done, they again listen to and measure things to be sure they did what they expected.

The sad thing for me at this time is that some financial changes came my way and I may or may not be able to go through with the mod this year.

These guys are not just slapping parts in a pc of gear, they are making it into something way better than the original designer created. The main component which is the custom gain board eliminates distortion by taking away the doubled gain from 2 sets of tubes and eliminating the feedback loop which creates the distortion in order to deal with all the gain.

[Ajani]

RHB has a great reputation and their Mods are top notch. You can search Audiogon for the company name and find many very happy customers, some who state that they would never be able to sell the gear that was modded.

I have been in the shop several times and seen the work they do first hand. Their process includes listening to the component when it comes in, then if they have not already created the gain board for that particular pc of gear they do so. After all the work is done, they again listen to and measure things to be sure they did what they expected.

The sad thing for me at this time is that some financial changes came my way and I may or may not be able to go through with the mod this year.

These guys are not just slapping parts in a pc of gear, they are making it into something way better than the original designer created. The main component which is the custom gain board eliminates distortion by taking away the doubled gain from 2 sets of tubes and eliminating the feedback loop which creates the distortion in order to deal with all the gain.

Sounds good... There are modders with great reputations and many satisfied customers (and from what you say, clearly RHB is one of them)... So those are the ones to use if you opt for a mod...

[Poultrygeist]

If I had $1000 to put towards a preamp this would be my choice.

http://www.thehornshoppe.com/the_truth_pre_amp.html

[Feanor]

If I had $1000 to put towards a preamp this would be my choice.

http://www.thehornshoppe.com/the_truth_pre_amp.html

That would be a great choice except the drat thing doesn't have a volume remote control.

[Hyfi]

That would be a great choice except the drat thing doesn't have a volume remote control.

Neither does my VAC, it has two separate volume knobs.

[Feanor]

Neither does my VAC [have remote control], it has two separate volume knobs.

I hate being without RC, at least for volume. That's why I got the Jolida JD50 passive; (passive works fine with my particular amp). See my "Passive Decision" thread, HERE ...



If I'd had $500 I'd have might have gone for Diyparadise's EVA 2 passive preamp with remote and multiple input selector, see HERE. This uses an LDR attenuator like 'The Truth', though the latter apparently also has buffer to ensure good impedence matching with long cables and/or a lower input impedance amp.

[Mr Peabody]

Man, Hyfi, I hope that VAC does sound good, two manual volume controls would be a pain. Not only do you have to get up but now you have to make sure it balances each time.

[RGA]

The thing you need to weigh with the $1000 mod is this. What can you buy as a preamp on the used market (since your amp is also used this is apples to apples)? Or looked at another way - would selling your preamp - adding that amount to the $1000 you plan to spend and buying a used preamp.

My bet is you can go pretty far here. Or even further if you're willing to sell the Counterpoint as well and get a quality integrated amp.

[Feanor]

The thing you need to way with the $1000 mod is this. What can you buy as a preamp on the used market (since your amp is also used this is apples to apples)? Or looked at another way - would selling your preamp - adding that amount to the $1000 you plan to spend and buying a used preamp.
...

Good and practical advice.

If you have a component you really like, you might get satisfaction by making it even better. However don't expect mods to make a component you have doubts about into something you love.

[JoeE SP9]

I think RGA has a very good point. At the least it's worth thinking about.

[Mr Peabody]

Come on Joe E, no flip flopping from your original post

Seems like a lot of risk buying something unknown. Unless there's something you really don't like about the VAC.

[Hyfi]

Man, Hyfi, I hope that VAC does sound good, two manual volume controls would be a pain. Not only do you have to get up but now you have to make sure it balances each time.

The pots are notched so all I have to do is count clicks. I also have the normal 2 click listening position marked for ease.

It is a pain getting up all the time but at least my ass isn't spread the width of the sofa.

To the other suggestions, they are all good and worth considering. After seeing the work these guys do and hearing what they can do for an already great pre, i was intrigued.

The shop is full of both old and brand new CJs that people are getting modded. There was also a skid with two brand new Premier Mono Blocks waiting for work.

It's obvious these guys know what they are doing and have the rep to back it up or people would not be shipping brand new components to have made into something much better.

Right now I may have to replace my HT receiver before i do anything else because it just started flaking out big time.

[TheSmartIdiot95]

If other people had no problems with it, I cant see why you would either. However, the 2 pots instead of just one does seem a bit much to deal with. As long as it's known to work I think it's worth it though.

[Hyfi]

If other people had no problems with it, I cant see why you would either. However, the 2 pots instead of just one does seem a bit much to deal with. As long as it's known to work I think it's worth it though.

Ah yes, the drag of having a true dual mono pre amp.

Anyway, this mod will have to wait since I just had to buy a new HT receiver, get my Hafler amp fixed up, and have a new power supply built by RHB for my Audio Alchemy DAC.

I did just pick the Hafler up tonight and all it needed was a good cleaning of all switches and connections and a few other tweaks he did. Cost me a whopping $74.20.

Turns out the the Audio Alchemy power supplies are not just a regular PS. They have a custom plus minus voltage circuit inside and mine was fried. RHB is building me a new one with the best parts he can get for $100.