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  1. #1
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    Method to Hear Cross Talk In Amp.

    When I was building my tube pre-amp (which was rudely interrupted by: surgery, a move, and other stuff) I ran across a neat way to hear the amount of cross talk in your amps. To do this:

    -- Only hook up your right input source.

    -- Un-hook the right speakers from your power amp.

    -- Listen to the right cross talk into the left speakers at different volumes. I was amazed at how much cross talk was in my current equipment and how little my yet unfinished tube amp had.


    Grrrr.... I will not get back to this pre-amp for a least a year. Right now I'm doing plumbing work. Moving the washer and dryer from the basement to a closet on the second floor.

    Plumbing isn't so bad, once you get past the smell..........

    Best Regards,
    Stan
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  2. #2
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    Is your preamp scratch built or a kit? I wouldn't be concerned with it unless it's perceptable when music is playing.

    With my HF speakers and tube gear I get some hum at idle if my ear is close to the driver. On 90bd or less speakers I doubt I could hear any hum at all. With high efficiency speakers you get to hear the good and the bad.

  3. #3
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manlystanley View Post
    I was amazed at how much cross talk was in my current equipment and how little my yet unfinished tube amp had.
    I found that to be true with my ARC preamp as well. Such manifests itself as a narrowed image width. Which is why I use dual mono attenuators for the CD source since it really doesn't need the additional gain.

    rw

  4. #4
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    I'd think things would have to be unusually bad for crosstalk to be an issue in a preamp or amp, especially if one uses analog sources. Channel separation in a typical phono cartridge is often only in the 20 to 30 dB range. Rarely is it much more than than, and then not by a lot. You really don't need a lot for a great stereo image.

  5. #5
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlsstl View Post
    Channel separation in a typical phono cartridge is often only in the 20 to 30 dB range. Rarely is it much more than than, and then not by a lot.
    True. My Dynavector is good for only 25 db. On a digital source, however, the difference can be quite noticeable with respect to perceived image width.

    rw

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat View Post
    True. My Dynavector is good for only 25 db. On a digital source, however, the difference can be quite noticeable with respect to perceived image width.

    rw
    I'm digital-only these days for a source, but my Image Audio 65i tube amp is pretty run-of-the-mill when it comes to channel separation and I don't have any issues with stereo image positioning, either right/left or front/back. But, different people do look for different things.

  7. #7
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlsstl View Post
    I don't have any issues with stereo image positioning, either right/left or front/back.
    Nor did I think I had any *issues* either, until...

    Quote Originally Posted by mlsstl View Post
    But, different people do look for different things.
    I heard how my preamp was compressing image width when I removed it from the signal path. That really was an unexpected discovery. The very best preamps have great channel to channel separation, but you'll never know about your gear until you try. When was the last time you bypassed the control section in your integrated amp?

    rw

  8. #8
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    Prior to the current tube integrated, I ran my source directly to a Bel Canto solid state amp without a preamp. Can't say the stereo image was differently sized than what I have now.

    I listened to the Emerson Quartet play Mendelssohn last night and everyone was precisely located exactly where one would expect. Not sure where they should have been that they weren't. ;-)

  9. #9
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlsstl View Post
    Not sure where they should have been that they weren't. ;-)
    In a virtual space more closely resembling the size of the original venue. Do the walls of your room disappear with the best recordings? Or do all the musicians seem to be found placed somewhere within your room?

    rw

  10. #10
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    For me, recordings are a far bigger variable than my system. That said, I believe I get an accurate rendition of what's on them. I routinely close my eyes and can easily visualize anything from an intimate room to a large hall if it's in the recording. The Emerson Quartet, at least in the recordings I have, tend to be a shade too closely miked, but it isn't hard to spot them in a hall that, while not orchestra-sized, is certainly larger than my room.

    I just happen to be in that all-too-rare situation where I'm extremely happy with my system.

  11. #11
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlsstl View Post
    I just happen to be in that all-too-rare situation where I'm extremely happy with my system.
    We audiophiles as a whole do tend to be a neurotic crowd, don't we? My primary music system has pretty long tenure:

    Cartridge - 15 years (if you don't count stylus/body replacements)
    Arm - 26
    RCM - 25
    Table - 12
    Preamp - 15
    Amps - 10
    CDP - 10
    Attenuators - 8
    Cables - 10-12
    Speakers - 6 (previous ones - 23)

    The vintage garage system has even older components:

    Table/Arm - 35
    Cartridge - 25
    Amp - 30
    Speakers - 34

    rw

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