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  1. #1
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Is JRA not satisfied with his BAT VK-3i?!?!?!

    I have a question on how I can bi-amp with my BAT.

    It comes with single ended and balanced outputs. My plan is to bi-amp my 1.6QR. Tube amp for my highs and my current HCA-2 for everything below.
    I'm thinking that my plan will not work, cuz the outputs(SE & XLR) of my pre are not the same. Is there a something I can do to achieve this with my BAT? Or should I start looking for Manley Shrimp in a near future?

    Thanks!

    JRA

  2. #2
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    It concerns me that you're not getting the best out of the BAT. It concerns me more that you're starting to refer to yourself in the third person which generally a warning sign of extreme meglo-maniacism.

    The Manley looks very nice...cuz Bobsticks said so...
    Last edited by bobsticks; 09-01-2007 at 07:07 PM.

  3. #3
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    JRA appreciates your reply, Sir bob. Manley does look friggin sweet.... but 12AT7? JRA Concerned...

  4. #4
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    JRA appreciates your reply, Sir bob. Manley does look friggin sweet.... but 12AT7? JRA Concerned...

    I was looking to buy a manley shrimp in the very distant future, until I found my Mcintosh

    you could try to use a splitter on the single ended outputs, most of the times it works, but if not, you might just blow up your output stage...

    good luck friend

    btw, those manleys are waaay to friggin overpriced here in europe...

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

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  5. #5
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Thanks Bert,


    I could always get a splitter but I shouldnt have to do that with a $3k preamp. I think it's about time I get a different gear anyways, plus a Cary SPL can be had for a great price on Agon.. I'm gonna have to think about this over a can of warm soda....

    Thanx again

  6. #6
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    save on, get a Mcintosh tube preamp
    or a manley...

    I too think It'd be kinda weird, even quality sacrificing to use a splitter on a 3k pre


    and now for a shameless plug
    there's a mcintosh C-2200 tube pre on Agon for $3400... I know, I know, it's too much
    there's a MC-275 IV tube Amp on the gon too now, for$ 2400...
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  7. #7
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    If the BAT will allow using both outputs, the XLR vs SE shouldn't matter. The XLR will have a higher gain, I think 6db, so I'd use that for the low end. It would be interesting to see if the Shrimp sounded as good as the BAT. You could email or call BAT to see if using both would cause any damage.

    For $2.5k you can get a new Conrad Johnson PV14ls2 and it does have dual pre outs. I've been very impressed with the sound quality of mine. I have found the CJ gear to be very musical. It's hard to describe, it's like it some how gives the music soul.

  8. #8
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    I dont think BAT VK-3i is designed to use both outputs.

    The manual states:

    Use either Main 1 or Main 2 Output connection to your power amp. Both yield equipvalent results...

    I'll contact BAT to make sure, but I dont wanna live with higher output for my lower frequency. The manual states "Both yield equipvalent results" but that is not the case. This is very confusing...

    Thanks,

    JRA

  9. #9
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    I don't understand

    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    I dont think BAT VK-3i is designed to use both outputs.

    The manual states:

    Use either Main 1 or Main 2 Output connection to your power amp. Both yield equipvalent results...

    I'll contact BAT to make sure, but I dont wanna live with higher output for my lower frequency. The manual states "Both yield equipvalent results" but that is not the case. This is very confusing...

    Thanks,

    JRA
    How is it that they don't "yield equivalent results"? Do you mean because one is SE the other balanced? Or something else? In any case you will need to match the levels of two power amps if you bi-amp with different amps. One or maybe both are going to need an attenuator.

    My Sonic Frontiers LINE 1 has an amazing four (4) pairs of outputs, two single-end, two balanced. I use a balanced pair to drive my Monarchy amps and a single ended pair to drive my PSB subwoofere. Works fine. Of course the sub has it's own mini-preamp that can supply gain or cut so no attenuator is necessary on the Monarchy (though they are very sensitive, i.e. 1 volt for rated output).

  10. #10
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Allow me to say it this way..

    In balanced connection, music plays much louder compared to SE connection. Why should my quasi-ribbon tweeter play 6dBs lower than bass panel. I dont think anyone can live with that, not me anyways. Since I cannot adjust the level of 2 separate outputs, some sort of attinuator would work.

    Man, your Line 1 just keeps sounding better and better. When are you gonna get another pair of Pro 70? Since I'm not going to get a pair of tube amp for awhile, this isnt very urgent. But it should happen in the beginning of next year.

    I went separates for flexibility, but it doesnt sound like the case at this moment. But I'll figure something out.

    JRA

  11. #11
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    I didn't think the 6dB difference would be that big a deal using balanced on the low end as it takes more power to reproduce bass anyway.

    But per your manual it sounds like "either" is the operative word. So you may have to Y. Or, a better option would be to use an outboard crossover. I have no idea what a good one would cost.

  12. #12
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Regarding balanced

    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    In balanced connection, music plays much louder compared to SE connection. Why should my quasi-ribbon tweeter play 6dBs lower than bass panel. I dont think anyone can live with that, not me anyways. Since I cannot adjust the level of 2 separate outputs, some sort of attinuator would work.

    Man, your Line 1 just keeps sounding better and better. When are you gonna get another pair of Pro 70? Since I'm not going to get a pair of tube amp for awhile, this isnt very urgent. But it should happen in the beginning of next year.

    I went separates for flexibility, but it doesnt sound like the case at this moment. But I'll figure something out.

    JRA
    You're further ahead with separates in any case. I would check with BAT about the "either" word; personally I doubt that you can't use both.

    As to whether balanced delvers +6dB, that depends on the target device: if it is single-end, (even if it has an XLR connection), the extra gain does not apply. I don't know about PS Audio's design . However in any case I think you will probably need to match the level of different amps with attenuators regardless of whether you can use both outputs, a 'Y' connector, or whatever.

    I won't be bi-amping myself anytime soon. For my listening the Monarchy's are fine 90% of the time. In my case level match would also be an issue: the Monarchy's are quite sensitive and do benefit from the extra 6dB, hence will probably need an attenuator. I'd like suggestions for a balanced, line-level, preferably passive attenuator if anyone has got any.

  13. #13
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    I dont think I'm uinderstanding how audio gears work.. I was thinking about how it could be that XLR and SE output could result in different gain. My pre amp is only supposed to have maxium gain of 18dBs. If it was true that balanced output of my pre has a head start of 6dBs of gain compared to SE, then I shouldnt be able to turn it up as high as SE on the volume display. Something doesnt add up..

    Turns out that, my amp offers higher gain thru XLR inputs. I believe this higher gain is only for initial gain, since all amps are limited to certain voltage. I think my amp is limited to 24dB. The difference of gain has to do with my amp's input sensitivity. If this is true then I got some reading to do about input sensitivity, then look for a tube amp that's match my HCA. Of course I still dont know if my pre is capable of using 2 pairs of output at the same itme. If this is true, then my amp selelction could be very limited.

    Is this something people consider when bi-amping?

    JRA

  14. #14
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Now, the one question that I have is that how does pre and amp combination work to decide how much gain they produce individually.

    Say I keep my BAT(18 dB max) and get a pair SET amp say 8watts(12dB Max). I do not think it's possible to offer maxium gain from my pre then just use 2 watts of amp. So, in this hypertheical situation, if I plan to use the maximum gain of those 8 watters, how much gain would BAT be offering?



    This is very confusing. Does it make sense to everyone?

    JRA

  15. #15
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor

    As to whether balanced delvers +6dB, that depends on the target device: if it is single-end, (even if it has an XLR connection), the extra gain does not apply. I don't know about PS Audio's design . However in any case I think you will probably need to match the level of different amps with attenuators regardless of whether you can use both outputs, a 'Y' connector, or whatever.

    I'd like suggestions for a balanced, line-level, preferably passive attenuator if anyone has got any.

    High quality Attenuator would be a must, but if that what it's going to take then I'm gonna have to investigate the overall cost.

    I'll probably get at least $700 for my HCA-2, say $1K for a used tube amp, then a cost of some unknow/unproven attenuator? If that's what it takes then I'll be looking for some 100w+ tube amps such as Cary V12R, Rogue M150(maybe a great deal on Zeus), or some VTL.

    journey continues...

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