Japanese Audio???

[RGA]

yeah I'm running out of auto makers. A repair man here in my town said there are three things you should never do when buying a used car:

1) Never buy an American car
2) never buy a European car
3) Never buy a used car advertised as lady driven.

[E-Stat]

If I could afford it I would definitely own the Marantz Reference SA-7S1 SACDP for $7K as well as a pair of the $8K MA 9S2 monoblocks!

As for me, I would opt for an EMM Labs player instead (for a tad more) and something other than what you find at Crutchfield that promotes "full current feedback amplifier stage" for $16k.

rw

[frenchmon]

Thats why I will never say one piece of equipment is the best because its all subjective with little or no objectivity. One mans garbage is another mans treasure!

And I agree with you 100%

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

So true, it's subjective. It would be interesting to hear if Sony's $25k speaker even came close to the Dynaudio Sapphire at $16k.

Marantz might get some respect when their $2500.00 integrated performs like a Krell. I didn't say sounds like, I said performs like. If you don't know the difference then you shouldn't argue the point.

I heard it said by some that Conrad Johnson's Art series was some of the best in the world.

Japanese gear will get respect when they provide this type of performance along with the price tag they stick on it.

Those of you who are defending the Japanese, let's see your Japanese gear list. Let's say other than what you bought from mass market/department stores.

I guess I could start, I actually have a Marantz A/V preamp and I have to admit it's good for $2500.00. I don't use a lot of the features but it doesn't have much comp at the price.

Mr.Peabody...you're starting to sound like the guys at Music For Pleasure. Personally I think Marantz Reference is great, great gear. I've sat and listened to a $7000 Marantz reference amp and $7000 Marantz reference control amp with a $7 Marantz reference CDP driving some very expensive Legacy speakers and some Revel speakers when I lived in North Carolina

And the only Krell I've heard is your Krell. Now I think both the Krell and the Marantz reference both have a signature sound.....and if that is true, their is a big difference in the type of sound. Forget about the performance, its how it relates to your soul. I forget what I see on paper when listening to gear, how much passion does it interject into your soul...does it move you in a way that says I want that.

Now im not saying performance is a bad thing if that floats your boat, but how does it make you feel man. Just like that new line of Dali speakers you and I listened to last week...neither you or I understood anything about the performance of those small Dali book shelves but you and I where moved by them...and then we saw the Dali floor standers and they where just to polite for my taste. I know the sales guy tried to pass it off as not being broken in, but they did nothing for me. Now we sorta listened to those small Dynaudio 110's that where beside them and they moved me like all Dynaudio speakers do...so I could care less about performance thats on paper.

The Mantz gear is warm and has a tube sound to me. I think they would at least try and preserve a little of that sound they had back in their hay day even though its not really the same company. At one time they even thought about getting back into tubes briefly but it just did'nt work out for them. He's a little bit of the conversation about that.

http://www.hifinews.co.uk/content/interview.html

HFN: Are we likely to see any revisits of classic Marantz products?

KI: ‘Some time ago we did a replica of the Model 7 amp but the biggest problem is the tube. We started to make a product and then we got a shipment from China that wasn’t, in terms of the quality of tube, at all in line with what it was supposed to be. So, we had to give up continuation of that project. We initially accepted orders from people and we ended up with 8000 orders for the Model 7, 7000 orders for the Model 8 and 10,000 orders for the Model 9. We thought we could do that in one year but because of the fact that tube wasn’t there it took us three years to do this and we said “there’s no way we can run serious production this way”. That’s the unfortunate situation. To run it in a proper production number is very difficult. If the quality of the tube is much better then, yes. Another thing is the reliability of the tube was also not the same as what we are used to. Some of the tubes I saw (from China and Russia) it was just unbelievable how bad they were. Also, the basic manufacture, basic materials and control of materials, and control of how to manufacture everything was incredibly bad. The truth is we sent back 90% and whenever those tubes aren’t meeting the specification at all people don’t want that. The biggest problem with tubes is that used on amplifiers they have a special charm and sound characteristic so I can understand that some people want that. I understand it’.

The Krell gear on the other hand is a very different sound...its hard, fast and very powerful. And I think the Krell amps attract a very different type of listener than the Marantz listener. If I had to spend my money, I would prefer that Marantz Reference seeing that I listen to mostly accoustic Jazz and Blues. IF that where not my taste and listen to a lots of R&B and hard hitting Rock and Metal, then its maybe Krell or something with that sorta sound that moved me.

Im just tired of this my gear is better than your gear because on paper it can do this. Over at the audio shop last week, I listen to the sales guy put down gear from China and Japan like they where a bunch of audio snobbs. And because of that I will never set foot in that store again, and its not like St. Louis has a lot to chose from. They even had bad things to say about Cary Audio which is made right there in North Carolina. If it does not drive big speakers like Dynaudio's $16000 Sapphire's or does not have enough juice for their liking then to hell with it? What is that?

This is a very subjective hobby and we should respect the gear thats afforded us. Like Blackraven says...one mans junk is another mans treasure.....lets stop dumping on others junk.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

"Performance" is not on paper, it's in real life. If you prefer the murk of Marantz th'ats fine with me. What I'm talking about, and just using Krell as one example, when dollar for dollar the Marantz can drive a speaker load, have the transient response and revealing clarity and detail of Krell then they will be performing. If you want to spend the same amount of money and receive less that's your choice. You could probably get the same mediocre performance for less money than a Marantz, that's all I'm saying. I know you have a soft spot for them, yet I don't see you pursuing any of their gear when looking to upgrade what you have now. So I don't understand your harden line of defense of them. To clarify, in one of my above responses I excluded the Reference line from my comments on Marantz. Not that I think they are any better in the price per performance, it's just that I have not heard them to say for sure. An aquaintance owns some of the Reference and I hope to hear it some day. Just as you and others express your love I have the same right to express my distaste. Just because you heard it and like it don't mean every one has to. Because you like it don't mean all who doesn't is wrong. You have to accept others opinion even if it doesn't agree with yours. People have to listen and make up their own mind. If they buy on what you or I say alone then they are fools.

I also do not care for Revel and have always been consistent on that. People may enjoy them, that's fine, but they do not sound like music.

The guys at MFP aren't generally tubophiles. Their loss. It doesn't diminish the gear in the store. I'd rather go there than to some place like the Mac dealer we visited. All I needed was them to show me where the gear was, I didn't need to listen to any crap. That's why I was listening while you were talking. You aren't going to convince some one with a closed mind. Some day I will take my CT6 in and watch them sweat while it kicks some butt.

[frenchmon]

"Performance" is not on paper, it's in real life

Thanks for clarifying what you meant.

If you prefer the murk of Marantz th'ats fine with me.

And if you think Marantz is murk then thats your opinion... But I dont see how in one breath you can call Marantz Reference which you have not even heard, murk and not say the same for your Conrad Johnson gear which is tubed gear thats totally different from your Krell but more in the ball park of Marantz.

What I'm talking about, and just using Krell as one example, when dollar for dollar the Marantz can drive a speaker load, have the transient response and revealing clarity and detail of Krell then they will be performing.

You must be smoking something Mr.Peabody...and you did not even invite me over for some. Marantz Reference not clear, detailed unable to drive loads???? How do you know what Marantz can do???? Have you sat down and really listened to Marantz Reference??? How about the Marantz MA-9S2 Reference Series Power Amplifier at 300 watts. The two pieces of gear are totally different. IF you want to drive speaker loads that are out of the Marantz range then go with Krell or what ever can drive the loads. Would you buy a Lexus LS to drive in Indianapolis 500??? Get real man...its not always the biggest load and faster ride man. When will you learn that?

If you want to spend the same amount of money and receive less that's your choice. You could probably get the same mediocre performance for less money than a Marantz, that's all I'm saying.

Well then why did you spend the money on Conrad Johnson? There are many who would say you spent the same amount of money on that gear and got less awell when compared to something else. You see, you dont have the audio world cornered on best performance to price....so why act like it as you are doing? A sucker is born every day Mr. Peabody....we are all suckers in this hobby don't be delusional man. Some one has always got a better deal than the next man...im just sayin.

I know you have a soft spot for them, yet I don't see you pursuing any of their gear when looking to upgrade what you have now. So I don't understand your harden line of defense of them.

You don't understand a lot of things I do with my life. You don't know why I do the things I do. Yes Marantz Reference is one of my favorites...but I don't have to report to you do I, if I am pursuing it or not. I could be just waiting for a deal...I have other needs and responsibilities like a family....I have other reasons why I don't have Marantz Reference, but that's besides the point. I just get sick and tired of my system is better than yours, my system has better performance than yours.... When you and I where at Music for Pleasure, I left that place understanding that those guys are just audio snobbs. I know they are your friends but they need to keep their opinion about gear private while around customers. IF I where looking to buy from them, that's out the window now. Every body can't afford $30000 Bolder amps, or $14000 Clayton blocks, or $16000 Dynaudio Speakers....heck I doubt they can afford it, so why put down Cary Audio and gear from Japan like its junk. For some audio hobbyist it brings great pleasure and enjoyment.

To clarify, in one of my above responses I excluded the Reference line from my comments on Marantz. Not that I think they are any better in the price per performance, it's just that I have not heard them to say for sure.

Then why speak on those things at all as if you have? You are the only person who is really talking about the price/performance Mr.Peabody. Im in no way soft, and my feelings are not easly hurt. I can care less about what you think about my feelings, but it can be a turn off putting down other gear. There could be some serious lurkers here trying to get into the hobby and have the lower lines of Marantz and enjoying them only to read your negative spin...its a turn off really. I consider you and I friends but theres a beter way of getting your opinion across.

Hears one review...read it and if its not good enough for you then thats ok as well.

http://www.10audio.com/marantz_ma-9s2.htm

An aquaintance owns some of the Reference and I hope to hear it some day. Just as you and others express your love I have the same right to express my distaste.

Its not what you say...but just how you say it.

Just because you heard it and like it don't mean every one has to. Because you like it don't mean all who doesn't is wrong. You have to accept others opinion even if it doesn't agree with yours. People have to listen and make up their own mind. If they buy on what you or I say alone then they are fools.

Heres whats funny about this conversation....It started about Marantz and Krell. But have you ever thought about Marantz Reference after hearing that it has a warm Tube sound? What sound does your Conrad Johnson have? I've heard Marantz Reference and I've heard ConradJohnson...both are warm Mr.Peabody....My Musical Fidelity was warm MrPeabody especially paired with your Conrad Johnson. My Marantz Hometheater 7.1 receiver is warm when in direct two channel mode. None of them lacked detail. Conradjohnson while tubed is in the same musical sound as Marantz...warm. But you praise ConradJohnson and have nothing but contempt for gear you have never heard.....amazing.

I also do not care for Revel and have always been consistent on that. People may enjoy them, that's fine, but they do not sound like music.

Perhaps you should have listen tothem paired with Marantz Reference. But seriously....If they did not sound like music, what did they sound like?

The guys at MFP aren't generally tubophiles. Their loss. It doesn't diminish the gear in the store.

I agree they had some nice stuff...its just the fact they where snobbs.

I'd rather go there than to some place like the Mac dealer we visited.

While they did not have a clue about their gear, and not a real two channel room, if I wanted Mac, I may go to the Sound Room but if I wanted Paradigm or Monitor Audio, I would have no choice. It depends on what gear I wanted.

All I needed was them to show me where the gear was, I didn't need to listen to any crap. That's why I was listening while you were talking. You aren't going to convince some one with a closed mind. Some day I will take my CT6 in and watch them sweat while it kicks some butt.

See there you go...when are you going to learn its totally subjective man!!!!! You may take that ConradJohnson in there and get laughed out the store. They may think that ConradJohnson has a crappy sound. Remember Mr.Peabody....one mans Junk is another mans Treasure....or in tis case...one mans Treasure is another mans junk.

And dont be mad at me.....we are still boys.

frenchmon

[Ajani]

"Performance" is not on paper, it's in real life. If you prefer the murk of Marantz th'ats fine with me. What I'm talking about, and just using Krell as one example, when dollar for dollar the Marantz can drive a speaker load, have the transient response and revealing clarity and detail of Krell then they will be performing. If you want to spend the same amount of money and receive less that's your choice. You could probably get the same mediocre performance for less money than a Marantz, that's all I'm saying. I know you have a soft spot for them, yet I don't see you pursuing any of their gear when looking to upgrade what you have now. So I don't understand your harden line of defense of them. To clarify, in one of my above responses I excluded the Reference line from my comments on Marantz. Not that I think they are any better in the price per performance, it's just that I have not heard them to say for sure. An aquaintance owns some of the Reference and I hope to hear it some day. Just as you and others express your love I have the same right to express my distaste. Just because you heard it and like it don't mean every one has to. Because you like it don't mean all who doesn't is wrong. You have to accept others opinion even if it doesn't agree with yours. People have to listen and make up their own mind. If they buy on what you or I say alone then they are fools.

I also do not care for Revel and have always been consistent on that. People may enjoy them, that's fine, but they do not sound like music.

The guys at MFP aren't generally tubophiles. Their loss. It doesn't diminish the gear in the store. I'd rather go there than to some place like the Mac dealer we visited. All I needed was them to show me where the gear was, I didn't need to listen to any crap. That's why I was listening while you were talking. You aren't going to convince some one with a closed mind. Some day I will take my CT6 in and watch them sweat while it kicks some butt.

Interesting you talk about performance when you speak about Krell VS Marantz.... Yet talk about 'sounding like music' when you compare Revel with other speaker brands... Revel is by all objective measures I've seen, one of the best performing speaker brands... Their measurements are always impeccable... So if you want to base purchasing on performance, you should be a huge Revel fan... Also, I'm pretty sure Conrad Johson can't match Krell's performance, but you clearly prefer CJ... why? Because CJ sounds more like music? I love performance, but it's not everything....

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you hating Revel, Marantz, etc... and RGA hating Krell, B&W etc... The issue is more how you express that opinion... Since we all have sonic preferences, if I say that Dynaudio and Magnepan sound like crap and that Revel and Monitor Audio will decimate them, then that would be potentially very misleading for someone not familiar with the brands... They might cross off Dyn and Maggie from their audition list, without listening for themselves... That's the issue some of us have with the way opinions are often expressed on hifi forums... We want you to recommend the gear you like... We want RGA to recommend the brands he thinks are best... But we don't want you to mislead people into thinking that Audio Note or Dynaudio, etc are the "Best" as that is totally subjective...

I try to recommend products I love and products I know others love in particular price ranges... So when posters ask about speakers in the $1K - $2K range for example, I'll often recommend trying out Revel and Monitor Audio (which I love) and also Dynaudio, Magnepan and Totem (none of which I care for)... Since I know that my tastes are not necessarily the same as the person to whom I'm making the recommendation...

[blackraven]

How can you not like the higher end reference series Marantz CD players. They in fact do present a warmer tube like sound with great air and detail. And it improves as you move up the line to their flagship $8K player which is highly respected.

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/aud...1-95051/review

http://www.dartmouth.tv/audio/images...te%20Sound.pdf

http://www.audiophilia.com/hardware/...arantzSACD.htm

[Mr Peabody]

Interesting you talk about performance when you speak about Krell VS Marantz.... Yet talk about 'sounding like music' when you compare Revel with other speaker brands... Revel is by all objective measures I've seen, one of the best performing speaker brands... Their measurements are always impeccable... So if you want to base purchasing on performance, you should be a huge Revel fan... Also, I'm pretty sure Conrad Johson can't match Krell's performance, but you clearly prefer CJ... why? Because CJ sounds more like music? I love performance, but it's not everything....

Revel may look good on paper but it sucks to listen to. The tweeters sound like they are from Infinity's car audio line. Cymbals don't sound like cymbals. When comparing Krell to CJ it's something you nor Frenchmon are qualified to do. Frenchmon may have heard them but he still don't understand. Krell can't perform like CJ either. There are trade offs. Where Krell is powerful and may have transient response it does not have the macro and micro dynamics of CJ. CJ also puts soul into th music, gives it the groove it should have.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with you hating Revel, Marantz, etc... and RGA hating Krell, B&W etc... The issue is more how you express that opinion... Since we all have sonic preferences, if I say that Dynaudio and Magnepan sound like crap and that Revel and Monitor Audio will decimate them, then that would be potentially very misleading for someone not familiar with the brands... They might cross off Dyn and Maggie from their audition list, without listening for themselves... That's the issue some of us have with the way opinions are often expressed on hifi forums... We want you to recommend the gear you like... We want RGA to recommend the brands he thinks are best... But we don't want you to mislead people into thinking that Audio Note or Dynaudio, etc are the "Best" as that is totally subjective...
I try to recommend products I love and products I know others love in particular price ranges... So when posters ask about speakers in the $1K - $2K range for example, I'll often recommend trying out Revel and Monitor Audio (which I love) and also Dynaudio, Magnepan and Totem (none of which I care for)... Since I know that my tastes are not necessarily the same as the person to whom I'm making the recommendation...

Well you waste yours and the readers time because all you do is create a list. The reader can do that themselves. They want an opinion, that's why they read. Readers don't seem to have a problem aligning themselves up with the person they feel is relating to their question.

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks for clarifying what you meant.
And if you think Marantz is murk then thats your opinion... But I dont see how in one breath you can call Marantz Reference which you have not even heard, murk and not say the same for your Conrad Johnson gear which is tubed gear thats totally different from your Krell but more in the ball park of Marantz.

To compare Marantz to CJ shows you have a lot to learn.

You must be smoking something Mr.Peabody...and you did not even invite me over for some. Marantz Reference not clear, detailed unable to drive loads???? How do you know what Marantz can do???? Have you sat down and really listened to Marantz Reference??? How about the Marantz MA-9S2 Reference Series Power Amplifier at 300 watts. The two pieces of gear are totally different. IF you want to drive speaker loads that are out of the Marantz range then go with Krell or what ever can drive the loads. Would you buy a Lexus LS to drive in Indianapolis 500??? Get real man...its not always the biggest load and faster ride man. When will you learn that?

When you brush up on your reading comp.

Well then why did you spend the money on Conrad Johnson? There are many who would say you spent the same amount of money on that gear and got less awell when compared to something else. You see, you dont have the audio world cornered on best performance to price....so why act like it as you are doing? A sucker is born every day Mr. Peabody....we are all suckers in this hobby don't be delusional man. Some one has always got a better deal than the next man...im just sayin.

I don't buy based on price per performance, I buy what I like to listen to. But I don't have Jolida and try to sit here saying it sounds like CJ

You don't understand a lot of things I do with my life. You don't know why I do the things I do. Yes Marantz Reference is one of my favorites...but I don't have to report to you do I, if I am pursuing it or not. I could be just waiting for a deal...I have other needs and responsibilities like a family....I have other reasons why I don't have Marantz Reference, but that's besides the point. I just get sick and tired of my system is better than yours, my system has better performance than yours.... When you and I where at Music for Pleasure, I left that place understanding that those guys are just audio snobbs. I know they are your friends but they need to keep their opinion about gear private while around customers. IF I where looking to buy from them, that's out the window now. Every body can't afford $30000 Bolder amps, or $14000 Clayton blocks, or $16000 Dynaudio Speakers....heck I doubt they can afford it, so why put down Cary Audio and gear from Japan like its junk. For some audio hobbyist it brings great pleasure and enjoyment.

A lot to do with nothing. Cary isn't a low price brand. You don't have to buy Reference, you were saying how great Marantz integrateds are. Maybe if you don't like what people have to say you need to quit asking them about it. Some one once said "don't ask, if you aren't ready to hear the answer because it may not be the one you are looking for". Apparently, you hear a lot you don't like.

Then why speak on those things at all as if you have? You are the only person who is really talking about the price/performance Mr.Peabody. Im in no way soft, and my feelings are not easly hurt. I can care less about what you think about my feelings, but it can be a turn off putting down other gear. There could be some serious lurkers here trying to get into the hobby and have the lower lines of Marantz and enjoying them only to read your negative spin...its a turn off really. I consider you and I friends but theres a beter way of getting your opinion across.
Hears one review...read it and if its not good enough for you then thats ok as well.
http://www.10audio.com/marantz_ma-9s2.htm

I will continue to state my opinion and if that's not allowed here then they can ban me. If I don't like something all the reviews and crying around here isn't going to change that. And if you or Ajani or Blackraven don't like my opinion then you don't have to read it.

Its not what you say...but just how you say it.

I say things as straight forward as I can in order to prevent misunderstanding. I don't like Klipsch but if it meets some one's needs or sounds like they may like it I will recommend it. I'm not going to put it on a list like Ajani just to be fair to all brands. I don't like it and I will not give a recommendation with no thought so some one can come back and say "Mr P recommended this and it sounds like crap". I have made no bones about not liking Yamaha in most instances, I guess I should thank the many here who own Yamaha that they didn't become offended and start whining.

Heres whats funny about this conversation....It started about Marantz and Krell. But have you ever thought about Marantz Reference after hearing that it has a warm Tube sound? What sound does your Conrad Johnson have? I've heard Marantz Reference and I've heard ConradJohnson...both are warm Mr.Peabody....My Musical Fidelity was warm MrPeabody especially paired with your Conrad Johnson. My Marantz Hometheater 7.1 receiver is warm when in direct two channel mode. None of them lacked detail. Conradjohnson while tubed is in the same musical sound as Marantz...warm. But you praise ConradJohnson and have nothing but contempt for gear you have never heard.....amazing.

To you there is only warm and not warm. There is way more to sound than that. Way more, and that's how much more you have to learn. And comparing Marantz to CJ shows that. If your Marantz receiver is so detailed why not just put one in your main system? Your comparisons make no sense what so ever.

Perhaps you should have listen tothem paired with Marantz Reference. But seriously....If they did not sound like music, what did they sound like?

Do you really want me to answer that?

I agree they had some nice stuff...its just the fact they where snobbs.

While they did not have a clue about their gear, and not a real two channel room, if I wanted Mac, I may go to the Sound Room but if I wanted Paradigm or Monitor Audio, I would have no choice. It depends on what gear I wanted.

I could care less who you buy from.

See there you go...when are you going to learn its totally subjective man!!!!! You may take that ConradJohnson in there and get laughed out the store. They may think that ConradJohnson has a crappy sound. Remember Mr.Peabody....one mans Junk is another mans Treasure....or in tis case...one mans Treasure is another mans junk.

Well if they were honest they'd admit the quality. The CT6 shines a bass line groove like no other piece of gear I've heard and I've heard a lot of high end gear. The CT6 is a stand out piece.

And dont be mad at me.....we are still frenchmon

******

[Ajani]

Well you waste yours and the readers time because all you do is create a list. The reader can do that themselves. They want an opinion, that's why they read. Readers don't seem to have a problem aligning themselves up with the person they feel is relating to their question.

So a reader asks for speakers to audition... you recommend Dynaudio and say it sounds great and Revel sounds awful... I tell the reader that Mr Peabody is wrong, Revel sounds great and Dynaudio sounds like crap... How have we helped him? Providing him with a list of different sounding brands will allow him to figure out which one he prefers... Brand bashing, as you will no doubt continue to do, is pointless... Conrad Johnson is not better than Marantz.... Brand preference is opinion and not fact, so saying one brand is better is a joke... I'd rather point out brands that someone should audition than pretend that my tastes in sound are somehow correct and others are wrong...

Anyway, clearly we won't agree on this one... and trying to push this issue is about as pointless as you and RGA arguing about whether Krell is better than Audio Note.... So I'll leave you be....

[RGA]

I think this goes back to brand prestige - Marantz Reference should not be confused with Marantz receivers we see in the big box chains. Completely different amplifier topologies. One of the marantz ref amps a few years back was pure class A said to be very highly regarded - completely different amplifier than anything else they make.

Trouble is that it will be viewed the way their regular line-up is viewed and I think even people who go and hear it will have a certain assessment before actually auditioning it. This is something Peter Qvortrup noticed with internet forums blasting SETs for not having bass and not being able to play loud - so now at shows he brings tough bass heavy music and plays it louder than virtually anyone else regardless of watts at shows. No one - I don't care how much money you have will walk out of the room I walked out of complaining that the AN E with a 20 watt amp does not hang in with the MAXX 3 or Dynaudio Evidence or B&W N801 or whatever. The proof is in the comparison and that ONLY happens when it is directly auditioned not in words on forums or reviews.

Everyone has a different take on sound - I went to CES and walked into a room with SHUDDER - Sony loudspeakers. It was one of the best speakers at the show - Sony - Yeah that's what I thought SONY???? WTF? But yes. Some people didn't care for them - others felt they were some of the best speakers they've heard. Ray Kimber said he's never heard a better speaker at $25,000. (which is the retail of the Sony).

Here is a take on amplifiers from a guy who has had or owned and extensively auditioned most every high end amplifier going. I agreed with him on most of his take on gear but when we disagreed it was pretty big - he hated the Sony speakers for example. Still probably agree 8/10 times.

Check out where he places Krell - they do pretty well. They are comparing the "large" amps ie: their biggest and baddest http://www.audiofederation.com/blog/

[Mr Peabody]

Ajani, better, is not the point as much as what I prefer, that is the point. And, actually I'm glad I argued the Krell point with RGA because the OP through other posts found he and I had similar views. Not to mention the total misrepresentation of the brand and facts of the situation. Aside from our disagreements RGA and I actually do have common audio ground. Hard to believe but true. It's funny how guys like you and frenchmon complain because all the reviews write good reviews but on the other hand get bent out of shape when some one says they don't like something. If saying I don't like something is brand bashing so be it. I guess I should be flattered that my opinion carries so much weight.

Sometimes when you look at aspects of a piece better can be a fact, like in terms of better parts, better build etc.

Back to the main idea of the thread, when I look at reviewers reference systems I don't see a lot of Japanese gear. Maybe some digital pieces but definitely not Marantz, Denon or other japanese amps.

[Mr Peabody]

So a reader asks for speakers to audition... you recommend Dynaudio and say it sounds great and Revel sounds awful... I tell the reader that Mr Peabody is wrong, Revel sounds great and Dynaudio sounds like crap... How have we helped him? Providing him with a list of different sounding brands will allow him to figure out which one he prefers... Brand bashing, as you will no doubt continue to do, is pointless... Conrad Johnson is not better than Marantz.... Brand preference is opinion and not fact, so saying one brand is better is a joke... I'd rather point out brands that someone should audition than pretend that my tastes in sound are somehow correct and others are wrong...

Providing a list is no help unless he has lived in a cave and knows no brands. Again, you twist things, I say what I like and do not like which is not saying one is better than another. If I know something for certain, than I will say so, like if an amp will drive a certain load etc. If people didn't want an opinion they wouldn't ask.

Anyway, clearly we won't agree on this one... and trying to push this issue is about as pointless as you and RGA arguing about whether Krell is better than Audio Note.... So I'll leave you be....

Not pointless, you need to get the facts straight. You and frenchmon either have selective memory or reading comp issues. The point of dispute was not AN or Krell is better, it was that RGA tried to say certain amps at lower prices would fit the job better than Krell. What is pointless would be to bring this up again after it's already been settled.

What is also pointless is to give some one a list of equipment brands with no purpose but to list names. I have my likes and dislikes, I will continue to state them in the appropriate content. There are brands I don't care for but do respect for what they are.

I still own both Audio Note and Krell, in sound they are different animals. In build quality the Krell is hands down better based on the AN I have. I had to have my AN DAC serviced for a bad solder joint. Aside from that the Krell stuff is always over built. My AN DAC is an excellent performer though. Is that brand bashing to say the AN isn't built as rugged as Krell? It's a fact. The AN is a thinner metal chasis and the unit is light, a Krell DAC could be a lethal weapon.

[IBSTORMIN]

This is very interesting as all my electronics is Japanese crap.

[Mr Peabody]

[QUOTE=IBSTORMIN]This is very interesting as all my electronics is Japanese crap.

Yeah, but your all right, your gear had help from BAT which is American.

That does remind me though, house of Onkyo knows the way of the current.

[frenchmon]

Ajani, better, is not the point as much as what I prefer, that is the point.

Oh yeah! then why did you write this?

. Some day I will take my CT6 in and watch them sweat while it kicks some butt.

This is the attitude that shines through your postings....that is the exact point you have been making.

It's funny how guys like you and frenchmon complain because all the reviews write good reviews but on the other hand get bent out of shape when some one says they don't like something. If saying I don't like something is brand bashing so be it. I guess I should be flattered that my opinion carries so much weight.

Oh like you never called some one else gear CRAP? Oh come on Mr.Peabody! Expressing your idea of some ones gear as CRAP and stating you really dont like it because of the sound or performance is totally to different things.

Sometimes when you look at aspects of a piece better can be a fact, like in terms of better parts, better build etc.

IF that is how you feel, then why Bash Marantz Reference as you do never even heard it? I suspect you have not even read anything about the Marantz Reference becasue it fits what you just stated.

Back to the main idea of the thread, when I look at reviewers reference systems I don't see a lot of Japanese gear. Maybe some digital pieces but definitely not Marantz, Denon or other japanese amps.

Well I've seen enough and I've read enough reviews to dis agree with you.This is a world wide hobby and Marantz Reference is much more bigger in Europe than it is in the states. Just because you dont see it does not mean its not there.

frenchmon

[RoadRunner6]

It's amazing all the changes that are being made throughout the Audio/HT community. If you are cruising manufacturing facilities in China, you could be surprised who you might see at the same facility checking on their production schedules. Like in a company that rhymes with Shell and one that rhymes with Oliva.

Mr. P, does this Krell remote look vaguely familiar? Ok, the obvious comeback will be that just because the Krell remote is a carbon copy of some other companies CD remote doesn't mean that Krell doesn't demand better parts, etc. in the manufacturing of their products.

[poppachubby]

So a reader asks for speakers to audition... you recommend Dynaudio and say it sounds great and Revel sounds awful... I tell the reader that Mr Peabody is wrong, Revel sounds great and Dynaudio sounds like crap... How have we helped him? Providing him with a list of different sounding brands will allow him to figure out which one he prefers... Brand bashing, as you will no doubt continue to do, is pointless... Conrad Johnson is not better than Marantz.... Brand preference is opinion and not fact, so saying one brand is better is a joke... I'd rather point out brands that someone should audition than pretend that my tastes in sound are somehow correct and others are wrong...

Anyway, clearly we won't agree on this one... and trying to push this issue is about as pointless as you and RGA arguing about whether Krell is better than Audio Note.... So I'll leave you be....

I see your point Ajani, but I think it's premised on the assumption that these info seekers are feeble and easily led.

By the time someone is ready to consider the likes of Krell, Audio Note, whatever...they've probably already owned a few systems and have some idea of what they like. I would think they'd be looking for strong views and opinions to help them navigate the storm of useless information.

If someone is researched, they'll be able to sniff out what is good, helpful information vs. biased sentiment.

[IBSTORMIN]

[QUOTE=Mr Peabody]

This is very interesting as all my electronics is Japanese crap.

Yeah, but your all right, your gear had help from BAT which is American.

That does remind me though, house of Onkyo knows the way of the current.

The fact is, the older 1980's dual mono Integra amps I have sound much better than the newer amp from Integra Research. I bought the IR thinking it would be much better due to the balanced design and BAT influence. I was very disappointed as it did not reveal as much detail as the older non-balanced Integras and I sold it. It's a shame we can't get these amps any more, all anyone now knows of Integra is H/T. Their H/T is good, I have it elsewhere in the house but not as good as their older stuff.

[frenchmon]

It's amazing at the changes that are being made throughout the Audio/HT community. If you are cruising manufacturing facilities in China, you could be surprised who you might see at the same facility checking on their production schedules. Like in a company that rhymes with Shell and one that rhymes with Oliva.

Mr. P, does this Krell remote look vaguely familiar? Ok, the obvious comeback will be that just because the Krell remote is a carbon copy of some other companies CD remote doesn't mean that Krell doesn't demand better parts, etc. in the manufacturing of their products.

Yeah...I was not surprised to learn that at least one Krell amp is made in China.

[Ajani]

I see your point Ajani, but I think it's premised on the assumption that these info seekers are feeble and easily led.

By the time someone is ready to consider the likes of Krell, Audio Note, whatever...they've probably already owned a few systems and have some idea of what they like. I would think they'd be looking for strong views and opinions to help them navigate the storm of useless information.

If someone is researched, they'll be able to sniff out what is good, helpful information vs. biased sentiment.

PoppaC, you and I are experienced in this hobby, so we can easily determine what advice we want to take or disregard.... My concern is really for newbies whose first real exposure to high-end is this site (that is how I started and I was confused as hell with all the arguments back then - I actually left the site and did the journey on my own for a couple of years) - so though I wouldn't call newbies 'feeble and easily led', I know they are far more impressionable than those of us who have years of hifi experience...

[Ajani]

It's funny how guys like you and frenchmon complain because all the reviews write good reviews but on the other hand get bent out of shape when some one says they don't like something.

While I won't argue with you any further on how you choose to express your opinion... I will address this point as it 100% incorrect about me... I don't complain about good reviews... I understand the review process and how to use and how not to use reviews.... When I want to read negative reviews and group shootouts, I read UK publications...

Negative reviews are actually even less useful than positive ones... For example, HiFi News raved about the Krell S300i for being as good as separates costing twice as much and an unbelievable giveaway at the price... What Hi-Fi? Rated the Krell 3 out 5 stars and said it only did enough to warrant recommendation.... So as a reader, I see one Rave and one Bash for the Krell.... great, how does that help me? If I only read HFN, I'd assume the Krell is a must audition product, but if only read WHF, then I wouldn't even take the time to listen to the Krell...

[Mr Peabody]

Oh like you never called some one else gear CRAP? Oh come on Mr.Peabody! Expressing your idea of some ones gear as CRAP and stating you really dont like it because of the sound or performance is totally to different things.

Show me a quote where I said that. and when you can't, you admit you are a liar. And, i don't mean something I said you don't like, I mean exactly what you said I said.

IF that is how you feel, then why Bash Marantz Reference as you do never even heard it? I suspect you have not even read anything about the Marantz Reference becasue it fits what you just stated.

Boy, when you get on a wrong track you remain lost

Well I've seen enough and I've read enough reviews to dis agree with you.This is a world wide hobby and Marantz Reference is much more bigger in Europe than it is in the states. Just because you dont see it does not mean its not there.

Show me, I be interested in seeing a reviewers system that uses Marantz Referencce. Put up or shut up.
frenchmon[/QUOTE]

[Mr Peabody]

RR6, it's common knowledge that Krell began going to China, I said that way back in JohnMichael's post when he was looking at the s300i. So much for your gotcha. All I can say is that I am disappointed they went that way and mine was built here. I suppose in order to compete with every one else you have to do as they do. Heaven forbid the profit line should shorten.