Japanese Audio???

[dakatabg]

I wish we have more interesting posts like this one! I enjoy reading everyone's opinion!

As long as there is no hate between the ar members, i hope we have more posts like this one

[Ajani]

So true, it's subjective. It would be interesting to hear if Sony's $25k speaker even came close to the Dynaudio Sapphire at $16k.

That would totally depend on who does the listening... A non-Dynaudio Fan might think a $3K speaker smoked the Sapphire... Subjective being the key word...

Marantz might get some respect

Marantz gets lots of respect from both reviews and owners around the world... Their last 2 models of $1K SACD Players and $4.5K power Amp were all Class A Rated in Stereophile, not to mention numerous great reviews and awards in the UK...

when their $2500.00 integrated performs like a Krell. I didn't say sounds like, I said performs like. If you don't know the difference then you shouldn't argue the point.

There's no point throwing down the gauntlet, if you're then going to word it in a manner that leaves persons too confused as to what you actually mean, for them to accept the challenge...

I heard it said by some that Conrad Johnson's Art series was some of the best in the world.

I've heard it said that Audio Note is the best in the world

Japanese gear will get respect when they provide this type of performance along with the price tag they stick on it.

They already get lots of respect... Just not by a number of persons in North America (many of whom are audio snobs)...

Those of you who are defending the Japanese, let's see your Japanese gear list. Let's say other than what you bought from mass market/department stores.

My previous setup was all Rotel and Marantz Electronics... which I vastly preferred to the competing British gear from NAD, Cambridge Audio and Arcam...

I guess I could start, I actually have a Marantz A/V preamp and I have to admit it's good for $2500.00. I don't use a lot of the features but it doesn't have much comp at the price.

Maybe you should audition some of Marantz's 2 Channel gear to see if you actually like it as well....

[dvjorge]

That was my intention when I opened this thread. I like CJ and have listening it in hi-fi stores. One of the best, I have listened to is Wilson Audio with VTL pre and amps, and the source was Mark Levinson Cd player. Transparent cables, I believe. Awesome sound.

[blackraven]

I would love to hear Audio Note and CJ, but unfortunately, no one here stocks them. Most of what is here is Mac, Audio Research, Bel Canto, Theta, Classe, Ayre, Esoteric and a few other high end brands.

[RGA]

RGA, thats a pretty bold statement about AN being the best tube amp manufacturer. I must admit that I have never heard a AN piece of equipment but what do you have to back that up, just for my own curiosity. I'm not arguing or disputing the fact but I would like some info relating to your claim.

Before that gets out of hand - I said "arguably the best tube amp manufacturer in the audio business - or at the very least there is no one better."

And let me be very clear - my amp is from Audio Note and it is NOT included in that statement. I am talking strictly about the top of the line models against top of the line models. The Audio Note Ongaku - either the original Kondo version or the newer AN UK version have both been very highly regarded around the world and have managed to last over 20 years at those kinds of prices. The Ongaku is typically the amplifier virtually every competitor makes a comparison to - which illustrates that most of them hold it up to be the "pinnacle" tube amplifier - and it should be when they charge those kinds of prices. Those are the non direct experience with amplifier reasons for me saying "arguably" they're at the top of the field and "there would be nothing really better."

That does not - and I REPEAT - does not mean that everyone is going to agree - not everyone agrees that Citizen Kane is the greatest American film - despite all the experts pointing to it as the pinnacle American film.

With something subjective like this there are numerous factors - but keeping it to tube amps in that power band it's tough to argue against it or the Gaku-On amplifiers. I could make the case for Conrad Johnson's top models or Lamm etc but even here I don't think you could make as convincing a case that they're "better."

Many felt that the Kondo-San Ongaku began the "High End" SET movement in North America and they were first with silver. The UK version is even better and recently covered by Stereophile http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2009/...means_ecstasy/

The point though got lost - Japan makes good gear!!

[Mr Peabody]

I didn't realize the "A" in RGA was for Ajani. Never heard you be an Audio Note fan boy before.

I have heard some of the Marantz 2-channel gear just not the reference. I don't like it. You all find it warm, I find it murky and their musicality is more like a receiver than an integrated of quality. Marantz isn't that expensive for their integrated, if they are so good why don't at least one person on the board have one? Seems there are a lot to jump to defend but none of which who puts their money where their mouth is. Stereophile's Class A rating isn't worth the paper it was written on.

By the way, Rotel is not Japanese.

[Ajani]

I didn't realize the "A" in RGA was for Ajani. Never heard you be an Audio Note fan boy before.

Me??? An Audio Note Fanboy??? hahaha... I'd have to listen to one first... My point was that there are many brands with products regarded as the best in the world... It just depends on who you ask...

I have heard some of the Marantz 2-channel gear just not the reference. I don't like it. You all find it warm, I find it murky and their musicality is more like a receiver than an integrated of quality.

Obviously other persons will have different opinions on the Marantz sound...

Marantz isn't that expensive for their integrated, if they are so good why don't at least one person on the board have one? Seems there are a lot to jump to defend but none of which who puts their money where their mouth is.

It isn't that cheap either... and there are an obscene amount of options between $2K and $3K to choose from... So even if a member really liked the Marantz, he might just find another integrated in that price range that he prefers...

Stereophile's Class A rating isn't worth the paper it was written on.

That's your opinion... maybe I should list all the positive reviews Marantz has got worldwide and see if you regard any of those publications... better yet... I'll just leave it as is...

By the way, Rotel is not Japanese.

Yes they are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotel

[blackraven]

RGA, I was just havin' some fun yanking your chain! No harm no foul! I know what you mean.

I would however like to hear some AN gear!

[Mr Peabody]

Well, Rotel could warrant a new thread, what constitutes where a line is from, Wiki says Rotel is a Japanese company yet it's designed in UK and built in China.

[Ajani]

Well, Rotel could warrant a new thread, what constitutes where a line is from, Wiki says Rotel is a Japanese company yet it's designed in UK and built in China.

hehehe... yeah, it gets really difficult determining where a company is from nowadays, with these strange corporate structures...

Rotel's website only makes things less clear:

For those of you who may not be familiar with Rotel, we are a family owned, 46-year-old business, who's success has been earned by devoting our efforts to nothing else but making audio/video products for fanatics like ourselves. Today, our "family" includes an international group of engineers, designers, music and movie enthusiasts, and professional audio business people from many countries including Japan, UK, USA, China and Korea.

http://www.rotel.com/NA/About/WhoWeAre.htm

[RGA]

RGA, I was just havin' some fun yanking your chain! No harm no foul! I know what you mean.

I would however like to hear some AN gear!

No problem but I often get beat up for speaking up about them. Largely because I want people to audition them long and hard.

On the issue of Marantz - the problem with most companies who sell to the mid-fi market and then bring out upscale gear is that there is a perception that they are mid-fi and very well may get overlooked or viewed as just expensive mid-fi. It also doesn't help that the top gear from those companies is difficult to locate and audition. Sometimes it can be very good and sometimes it really is just expensive mid-fi.

But if a company like Sony or Marantz actually TRIED to make something terrific they have the resources to be able to do it - the trouble is big companies typically TRY to raise profit margins and using expensive high quality parts to sell to a minority of buyers and battle the perception problems isn't really worth it.

Still - some of the big guys do decide to care and they can do it. The Sony speakers at CES IMO were very good which surprised the hell out of me. Pass Labs and EMM Labs and Ray Kimber of Kimber Cable thought enough of them to show with them. And they managed to impress me and I usually despise speakers designed like that - multi-ways with many drivers.

[RoadRunner6]

I think there are a number Japanese audio products that very seldom see the light of day in North America, or at least in your corner hi-fi shop.

There are companies such as Audio Tekne, Zanden Audio, Almarro, and Shindo Laboratory who make high quality products. Even the big names like Sony, Kenwood, etc. make lots of products that are never sent to North America. An example of an Audio Tekne product is the below pictured TEA-9501 dual-mono-block flagship phono stage preamp. Total dual weight 278lbs. Cost, $150,000 US.





Down the street from my wife's family shop in Japan is a high end audio shop. Here is a list of their product line (lots of very familiar names).

■AAD ■ELECTRO-VOICE ■ORACLE
■Acustic-Lab ■ESOTERIC ■Ortofon
■AKG ■EAR ■PASS LABS
■avantgarde ACOUSTIC ■FAROUJA ■PMC
■ALPHASON ■FM-ACUSTICS ■PRO-JECT
■ALR/JORDAN ■GOLDMUND ■ROLF KELCH
■ANTHEM ■German Physiks ■SENNHEISER
■ARCAM ■HOVLAND ■SME
■AR ■Hubbel ■SONUS FABER
■ATC ■Infinity ■SPACE & TIME
■AUDIO-QUEST ■IXOS ■SPENDOR
■AVALON ACOUSTIC ■JBL ■Synergistic Research
■AURA DESIGNS ■JBL Pro ■TANNOY
■AYRE ■JEFF ROWLAND DESIGN ■TAOC
■AYRIAL ACOUSTIC ■JM Lab ■THIEL
■B&W ■JORDAN-WATTS ■THORENS
■BELDEN ■KEF JAPAN（メーカー） ■TEAC
■Burmester ■KEF ■TRANSPARENT
■BOSE ■KIMBER CABLES ■UNISON Research
■Bel canto ■KRELL ■Van・Den・Hul
■Birdland Audio ■LEXICON ■VELODYNE
■BRYSTON ■LINN　JAPAN ■VioLa
■CARDAS AUDIO ■Mark Levinson ■WADIA
■CLEARAUDIO ■McINTOSH ■WBT
■CREEK ■MILTY ■WILSON-BENESCH
■CSE ■MIT ■WILSON AUDIO
■Cello ■MONITOR AUDIO ■WATTaGATE
■DALI ■MONSTER ■Westlake Audio
■DIAPASON ■NAGRA
■dCS ■NHT
■ELAC ■NOTTINGHAM

(Did you see the name Bose, there are a few dumb Japanese )

[Mr Peabody]

RR6 if that's accurate I doubt if a single U.S. store carry that many lines. It's even rare to see a store carry two similar lines let alone Krell, Bryston, Pass and Levinson.

Before getting into Arcam and Krell etc. my system for many years was a Kenwwood 3300 system which was a higher end line of matching tuner, CDP and integrated amp. The integrated amp had one of the first built in DAC's I had ever seen in an integrated. This was before 5.1. The first fiber optic in/out I had ever seen. It was cutting edge for the time. The amp was 150x2 into 8 ohms and doubled it's power as impedance halved. When I began looking for better gear I got tired of having to explain to people my Kenwood was not the stuff found in mass market stores and even after explaining what it was I got the feeling I totally wasted my time.

[Ajani]

RR6 if that's accurate I doubt if a single U.S. store carry that many lines. It's even rare to see a store carry two similar lines let alone Krell, Bryston, Pass and Levinson.

That actually is pretty typical of some of the Japanese and Hong Kong Hi-Fi stores I've seen (not in person - but from some of the review sites when there reviewers go overseas)... It seems to be a common practice to have an extremely wide product range and be able to switch out speaker and electronics combos on the fly... so overseas you'd get to audition a wide range of brands and how they interact before purchasing...

The Hi-Fi market in Asia is supposed to be much stronger than in the west.... It's one of the reasons why I find it hard to imagine that the Japanese don't make good Hi-Fi... They clearly have all the major brands to compete with in their own stores, so they know what quality sounds like.... And as mentioned earlier, a lot of the better Japanese gear never makes its way to the US.

Before getting into Arcam and Krell etc. my system for many years was a Kenwwood 3300 system which was a higher end line of matching tuner, CDP and integrated amp. The integrated amp had one of the first built in DAC's I had ever seen in an integrated. This was before 5.1. The first fiber optic in/out I had ever seen. It was cutting edge for the time. The amp was 150x2 into 8 ohms and doubled it's power as impedance halved. When I began looking for better gear I got tired of having to explain to people my Kenwood was not the stuff found in mass market stores and even after explaining what it was I got the feeling I totally wasted my time.

Yep, that's part of the problem... I'm sure no explanation was required about how a Krell is not available in your mass market store.... And once you get into Hi-Fi circles, once you have a renown brand that only makes expensive products, you gain immediate status among many.... Another option is to own an expensive exotic brand and decry that the more popular ones all pale in comparison.... However, if you own an expensive Denon, Marantz or Yamaha (or even a NAD and Cambridge Audio) you'll not get much respect....

A Luxury Hyundai will never have the Status of a Mercedes or BMW... Even if it performs better than them....

[frahengeo]

Banzai!!!

[harley .guy07]

If I won the lottery I think I would travel around to different shops and peoples houses and search the hell out of every part of my system before buying it and make sure what was THE BEST and I would not be brand loyal because I would not care. What sounded best to me sound best no mater what people said. And I would make sure that there were not any products that were of quality that I did not hear. That would be the good part of winning the lottery. having all the time to do that and having the money to buy it.

[frahengeo]

If I won the lottery I think I would travel around to different shops and peoples houses and search the hell out of every part of my system before buying it and make sure what was THE BEST and I would not be brand loyal because I would not care. What sounded best to me sound best no mater what people said. And I would make sure that there were not any products that were of quality that I did not hear. That would be the good part of winning the lottery. having all the time to do that and having the money to buy it.

Sounds like a great idea (except for the going to people's houses part). I would love to find the time to tour the McIntosh facility in NY. Although the wife would say otherwise...

It is unfortunate, but many of us let "status" dictate our behavior.

[RGA]

If I won the lottery I think I would travel around to different shops and peoples houses and search the hell out of every part of my system before buying it and make sure what was THE BEST and I would not be brand loyal because I would not care. What sounded best to me sound best no mater what people said. And I would make sure that there were not any products that were of quality that I did not hear. That would be the good part of winning the lottery. having all the time to do that and having the money to buy it.

Save $1500 or less - go to the CES in January next year - all the companies are there together - at least most of them are in one form or other. The CES pass can be attained for free - you just have to say that you are a "Industry Affiliate" fill out the forms as if you are a business (they don't check) and you have a full pass for the event. Now you're into a flight and hotel - I think I paid $880 (from Canada) for a flight and 5 night stay at the Circus Circus (which turned out to be relatively nice despite some commentary to the contrary) and it's about a 25-30 minuted walk to the Venetian. But they have free shuttles just show them the CES pass.

The rooms are not perfectly ideal but then no room is perfectly ideal and they should work in most rooms considering they are selling to customers of all sorts of living spaces.

[RoadRunner6]

RR6 if that's accurate I doubt if a single U.S. store carry that many lines.

I've actually been in this two story shop several times. The list of brands on their website, they either stock or have access to. Their shop is packed with products.

http://www.sendai-nodaya.jp/

http://www.sendai-nodaya.jp/link.html

http://www.sendai-nodaya.jp/shop.html

[harley .guy07]

RoadRunner those pictures of that shop looks like the shops I remember here back when stereo was king and home theater just a thought(the 70's and 80's). I liked the fact that a shop carries enough brands to give you a good level of options and can hear different things. Home theater and buying off the internet has closed most of the high end shops in the smaller towns and shrunk the amount of shops in the big cities.

[RoadRunner6]

Yeah, the Japanese mindset is to buy very high quality. You can see this in the skis and golf clubs they buy.

They are big into two channel. I was surprised at how many of the nice Tannoy models they had. They really go in a big way for horn designs and tube gear.

[Poultrygeist]

Japan was the world audio leader during the 1970's when labor was cheap. Today China is the world leader due to their low production costs. Fostex drivers are Japanese but are now made in China along with 90% of all high end gear sold.

[harley .guy07]

I wish the stereo shops in America today would remember their roots and have stereo rooms and not just 5 different theater rooms at different price levels and all of it using receivers of different levels. Its like they forget that stereo has been around and was the king for many many years before this multichannel theater thing came into play and that for music 2 channel stereo is still the best way to listen to music in my opinion and for the most part the opinion of most audiophiles. I do most of my research online and through friends and people that have worked with the brands and components I am interested in because there is no shops in my area that give a s*^% about stereo or good music sound all they care about is how much bass and how dynamic the latest big movie sounds on one of their theater rooms. I am not saying that home theater isn't fun and cool for watching movies but damn I wish these shop owners would remember how they got to this level and would allow some room for the music audiophile as well.

[RGA]

A Luxury Hyundai will never have the Status of a Mercedes or BMW... Even if it performs better than them....

If you take a look at the Lemon-Aid - you will see that Hyundair does perform better - much better surprisingly. Indeed, Mercedes can charitably be called a bunch of total overpriced junk.

[Mr Peabody]

Anybody want to buy a Toyota!

Yeah, that probably was tacky.