Into the dark abyss I go again....

[manlystanley]

Personally I'm tempted to try a classic Marantz 7.

Here is someone who did build it. Generally positive comments.....

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/arc...p/t-93094.html

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

Tubes are appealing nonetheless, e.g. manlystanley's interest in the JADIS options. Personally I'm tempted to try a classic Marantz 7. I could get a complete kit from, e.g. DIY Gene for US$295, see HERE, or populated or bare board, or board plus parts from various eBay supplier. You would expect a pre from Frank Van Alstine to be better, but then an AvaStar is $2100 with remote control.

\

Fearnor,
Why do you like the Marantz better then The Jadis JP200??

Thanks,
Stan

[manlystanley]

So, just looking at the general pricing, at a site I like. What is good is that they have a user support forum (http://forum.analogmetric.com/). Then they tell you what component brands that they use:

Remote Control ($59): http://www.analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=1132
JP200 ($143): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=996
Power supply ($99): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=1016
Input Selector ($19): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=1928
Transformer ($49): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=1126
Choke ($49): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=243
10 Gold RCA ($20): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=476
Chassis ($80): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=646

Total: $518.

This costs more then the 'Kit', but it has much better compients (like a motorized volume, gold connectors, etc, etc.

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

So, just looking at the general pricing, at a site I like. What is good is that they have a user support forum (http://forum.analogmetric.com/). Then they tell you what component brands that they use:

Remote Control ($59): http://www.analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=1132
JP200 ($143): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=996
Power supply ($99): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=1016
Input Selector ($19): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=1928
Transformer ($49): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=1126
Choke ($49): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=243
10 Gold RCA ($20): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=476
Chassis ($80): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=646

Total: $518.

This costs more then the 'Kit', but it has much better compients (like a motorized volume, gold connectors, etc, etc.

Best Regards,
Stan

[blackraven]

You would expect a pre from Frank Van Alstine to be better, but then an AvaStar is $2100 with remote control.

Frank will still make His T-8 all tube preamp for about $1300. You can find them used occasionally for about $500-800. Frank will even check it out for $25 and see if it is up to spec if you find one used. But the DIY preamp looks interesting. I'd like some one to try it. I would like to get separates for my second system.

[Feanor]

So, just looking at the general pricing, at a site I like. What is good is that they have a user support forum (http://forum.analogmetric.com/). Then they tell you what component brands that they use:

Remote Control ($59): http://www.analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=1132
JP200 ($143): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=996
Power supply ($99): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=1016
Input Selector ($19): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=1928
Transformer ($49): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=1126
Choke ($49): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=243
10 Gold RCA ($20): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=476
Chassis ($80): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=646

Total: $518.

This costs more then the 'Kit', but it has much better compients (like a motorized volume, gold connectors, etc, etc.

Best Regards,
Stan

Wow! That's great. Hope you go for it and let us know how it works out.

Just curious: where is the choke used?

[hermanv]

No one has commented on a passive pre, neither tube nor transistor. properly built they neither add nor subtract information.

For CD sound my personal opinion is that the DAC overrules the other components in the reproductive chain. Wothout a good conversion process (read uncolored and detailed) all other issues become very much secondary.

My home built pasive pre uses Vishay resistors and Shallco silver swithces. With pure silver wiring and Cardas connectors sound is both sweet and detailed.

[blackraven]

For CD sound my personal opinion is that the DAC overrules the other components in the reproductive chain. Wothout a good conversion process (read uncolored and detailed) all other issues become very much secondary.

My home built pasive pre uses Vishay resistors and Shallco silver swithces. With pure silver wiring and Cardas connectors sound is both sweet and detailed.

Herman, I have to agree with you on this to some extent. In my system, tube rolling in my preamp and DAC shows that swaping tubes in the DAC makes the biggest impact in the sound.

[Feanor]

So, just looking at the general pricing, at a site I like. What is good is that they have a user support forum (http://forum.analogmetric.com/). Then they tell you what component brands that they use:

...
JP200 ($143): http://analogmetric.com/goods.php?id=996
...

Best Regards,
Stan

Give some consideration to upgrading the capacitors in the direct signal path. You might consult the "Great Capacitor Shootout", (here), which link was originally supplied by RGA as I recall. Obviously you can spend absurd amounts or money on capacitors

[manlystanley]

Wow! That's great. Hope you go for it and let us know how it works out.

Just curious: where is the choke used?

Hello Feanor,
The choke is used to connect the power supply to ground. Without it, the power supply is directly grounded to the chassis. The purpose of it is to attenuate output feedback that come from the amplifier and goes though the ground plane back to the Power supply, and vis-a-versa.


I'm in a research mode right now. I've looked at multiple kits and I'm kind of leaning away from the JP200 now. Many reviews I've read have said that the sound quality of the JP200 came from the components chosen and not just the design. So, I'm looking at other options now. Anyways, this is a fun process and I'm enjoying it.

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

No one has commented on a passive pre, neither tube nor transistor. properly built they neither add nor subtract information.

For CD sound my personal opinion is that the DAC overrules the other components in the reproductive chain. Wothout a good conversion process (read uncolored and detailed) all other issues become very much secondary.

My home built pasive pre uses Vishay resistors and Shallco silver swithces. With pure silver wiring and Cardas connectors sound is both sweet and detailed.

Interesting. So, a passive-pre just puts in a volume attenuation (and nothing else). I'm just curious if the sound qualities that a tube amp puts in would be more to my liking?

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

Give some consideration to upgrading the capacitors in the direct signal path. You might consult the "Great Capacitor Shootout", (here), which link was originally supplied by RGA as I recall. Obviously you can spend absurd amounts or money on capacitors

Will do. The advantage of building your own is that you feel capable to upgrade the components.

Best Regards,
Stan

[manlystanley]

Here's a link to a guy building his own preamp:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/114302.aspx

Best Regards,
Stan

[Mr Peabody]

hermanv, how much to build a passive such as yours and does it have a remote?

[Feanor]

Hello Feanor,
The choke is used to connect the power supply to ground. Without it, the power supply is directly grounded to the chassis. The purpose of it is to attenuate output feedback that come from the amplifier and goes though the ground plane back to the Power supply, and vis-a-versa.
...

Best Regards,
Stan

Thanks, Stan. That show the depth of my electrical ignorance -- I'd never heard of doing such a thing before.

[Feanor]

hermanv, how much to build a passive such as yours and does it have a remote?

Well, a passive preamp consists of an input selector and an attenuator and about that's it.

It seems to me that basicaly you could build one with this remote control selector + attenuator like this one, (here), from DIY Gene, $40, plus the requisite power transformer for the remote function, (here), $20, and a case like this one, (here), $60. It would cost you around $120 plus shipping.



(Wow! I'm thinking I could go for that myself!)

[hermanv]

hermanv, how much to build a passive such as yours and does it have a remote?

No remote, the Placette passive pre comes with a remote. The Placette gets great reviews and is readily available used.

Mine was about $550 in parts; Shallco switch $120, 3 times Cardas RCA $45 and 28 Vishay resistors X $11.95 = $334 Total excluding chassis and knobs was about $500,

Note for steps (1.5 dB/step) beyond -22 dB or higher than -3dB I used Cadoc resistors. I used a "Mod Squad" passive pre as a box/chassis ($150 used) and Cardas wire.

[manlystanley]

Here is a rave review of the Placette passive pre: http://www.stereophile.com/solidpreamps/604placette/

Here's a discussion I had about building a Aikdio preamp:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes...then-what.html

At this time, I'm leaning towards doing the Aikdio, for the following reasons:

-- Always wanted to hear what the 'tube sound was'

-- Absolutely *TONS* of reviews and comments on the net. All of them very possible. It seems that the Aikdio does not have a real strong tube sound, but it is very clear and detailed. (e.g. http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/am...14/140684.html ).

--Tons of community support.

-- Actually cheaper then the Chinese knockoffs.

-- Very little support and reviews of of what the Chinese knockoffs sound like.


Best Regards,
Stan

[Feanor]

...
Here's a discussion I had about building a Aikdio preamp:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes...then-what.html

At this time, I'm leaning towards doing the Aikdio, for the following reasons:

-- Always wanted to hear what the 'tube sound was'

-- Absolutely *TONS* of reviews and comments on the net. All of them very possible. It seems that the Aikdio does not have a real strong tube sound, but it is very clear and detailed. (e.g. http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/am...14/140684.html ).

--Tons of community support.

-- Actually cheaper then the Chinese knockoffs.

-- Very little support and reviews of of what the Chinese knockoffs sound like.
...

Well, well, Stan. You've been very busy indeed with your research.

Seeing a decent use manual as for the Aikido is very confidence-inspiring for non-electo engineer like me. Nevertheless I wouldn't be interested in a preamp for soley for the reason than good support.

Personally I'm stilling leaning to ESP's s/s preamp (for which, however, there is excellent support, BTW; see the description HERE). I might combine it with a DIY Gene remote control and case.

Respecting DIY Gene, a lot of the negative vibs seem to center around his alleged rip-offs of other people's designs. On the point, first, I haven't heard any credible accusations of actual patent or copywrite violations. Secondly, given no legal violations, I really don't care how flagrant his clones are if the quality is decent and the prices are low. And, for sure, DIY Gene's prices are most compeditive and he has a good eBay reputation.

If I were looking for a tube preamp, I think I'd look for a "tubey" classic design, and DIY Gene's Marantz 7 clones looks like a bargoon at $295, HERE, for the complete preamp including case and remote control. ...

[manlystanley]

Lots of choices. This review said that the Aikdio was way to neutral and boring. They liked the following amp much better:

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/in...?topic=70569.0

Here's another option:

http://www.transcendentsound.com/Tra...id_Preamp.html

It has many positive professional reviews:

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/todd23.htm
www.affordableaudio.org/GroundedGrid.pdf
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tub...ages/9100.html



I don't know. Lots of choices.....


Best Regards,
Stan

[hermanv]

I think I would be concerned about people "looking" for a certain sound signature. Whether tube or solid state any excess color is probably bad.

As long as there is good extension and dynamics, a boring or neutral sound will probably serve you well in the long run. Leave the atmosphere to the musicians and sound engineers, good or bad one hopes you hear what they intended it to sound like.

A good system will bring out the best in quality recordings while not making mass market or poor recordings sound any worse.

[manlystanley]

Herman: Good point concerning the sound signature.

Feanor: Good points as well. I wish there was only one clear front runner....

I found this article: http://diyaudioprojects.com/Forum/vi...t=127&start=20

In it, multiple people, compared the following preamps:

Manley Shrimp
Aikido 24v
Odyssey Candela
VTL Deluxe
Burson preamp
Denon receiver used as pre

All the people judged Manley Shrimp and the Aikido in first and second place. Teh main grip of teh Aikido was that it was 'too bright' compared to the manly Shrimp. The Manly Shrimp amp costs about $2000 and is reviewed here:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...mp-4-2003.html
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/manley5/seafood.html
http://www.avguide.com/review/manley...plifier?page=1
www.affordableaudio.org/ManleyShrimpPreamp.pdf

[manlystanley]

I've done a lot of thinking and researching, and I think I'm going with this preamp: http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/aiam56stkit.html . I can build it with a remote for $400. I've read lots of great things about the 5687 tube, and the Aikido amp in general.

From what I understand, a major factor of how the amp sounds is what components are used for the:
-- Output coupling
-- and to a lesser degree the bias current.

I'm planning on building the plain vanilla version and then modifying it to make it sound best to my room and my ears.

Best Regards,
Stan

[Feanor]

I've done a lot of thinking and researching, and I think I'm going with this preamp: http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/aiam56stkit.html . I can build it with a remote for $400. I've read lots of great things about the 5687 tube, and the Aikido amp in general.

From what I understand, a major factor of how the amp sounds is what components are used for the:
-- Output coupling
-- and to a lesser degree the bias current.

I'm planning on building the plain vanilla version and then modifying it to make it sound best to my room and my ears.

Best Regards,
Stan

That looks very cool, Stan. Give us plenty of updates.

[Mr Peabody]

Stan the man let the solder flow....