Integrated vs. pre/power amps

[amitsood]

Thanks everyone for the information.

One thing that was mentioned several times, and which I've heard from dealers and others is about the power supply. I can understand that the power supply has to be capable of providing enough power to drive the speakers at whatever volumes, and so a good stable supply is essential.

But what kind of intereference can be caused by the power supply in a modern amp/integrated/receiver? If inteference is such a problem, why not put the power supply outside the box or in a lead cage inside the box?


amit...

[RGA]

Thanks everyone for the information.

One thing that was mentioned several times, and which I've heard from dealers and others is about the power supply. I can understand that the power supply has to be capable of providing enough power to drive the speakers at whatever volumes, and so a good stable supply is essential.

But what kind of intereference can be caused by the power supply in a modern amp/integrated/receiver? If inteference is such a problem, why not put the power supply outside the box or in a lead cage inside the box?


amit...

Cost. It costs money to do those things. That is why there are separates. I had a $650.00 receiver that if you set it to CD. And turned the volume all the way up...without pushing play on the cd you could hear the radio come through. RF interference and I heard the exact same thing the other day with a Denon 1604.

Yes sure it's full volume and maybe someone with a lower sensitivity speaker won't notice or care...but that is grunge that is present in the path. The receiver maker simply cheaped out.

Power supplies in receivers is one tiny whimpy ass box driving 5 or 6 speakers sharing whatever gutless amount it has to offer. Capacitor and wiring is of the cheapest poorest possible quality. Yamaha has always been and probably still is a bit better on this point. A lot of the speakers beg made are so pourous that one woun't notice a difference between amps anyway so I suppose that's something. Many receivers luckily come with the preout and power amp jacks which allow you to upgrade.

A Receiver is basically an all-in-one printer. If you're serious about scanning, photo prining or mega photo copying chances are you won't buy a $79.99 Lexmark. And while there are much better ALL- In ones at 1k...chances are you could get a separate photo printer, scanner and photocopier that would be better on all three counts for $750.00.

Receviers make a LOT of sense up to a certain point, beyond that point separates are more functional and cheaper. The Denon 5803 is nearly $6,000.00CDN and I can get separates that will far out perform it and be far better built for 5k maybe less if I really hunt.

As soon as you get to the model with preouts, assuming the processor for surround is a good one, is the point you no longer spend. The Marantz 4300 at $500.00CDN is right around that point for me. Because for another $500.00 used I can go get a Rotel 5 channel amp that will make the Marantz 7300 sound like a joke. Except I paid 1k instead of the 2k. I get less features now but in the long run will get more at less cost.

[skeptic]

If inteference is such a problem, why not put the power supply outside the box or in a lead cage inside the box?

A very long time ago, they used to do exactly that. One issue is shielding. Transformer shielding has come a long way over the years. There is also the issue of how wires are arranged inside a tightly packed box. When they are close together, their minute electrical signals can be unintentionally coupled to other circuits causing unintended bleedthrough and interference especially at high gain settings. As for performance, to a degree you get what you paid for. Quieter better performing transistors (and tubes) cost a little more. In a highly competitive market where the majority of consumers are less than ultra critical and the models change every few weeks, it is hardly surprising that the low end products, receivers, get built from cheap parts sometimes carelessly packed. OTOH, the more expensive high end separates are directed at a market which has higher expectations and they had better get more of what they want because bad news travels fast. So there is no inherent reason why receivers and integrated amps can't perform as well as separates, it's just a matter of judging what the market wants to pay for and how they want it packaged.