Help with purchasing a power amp or integrated amp

[titan7]

I am hoping someone can steer me in the right direction since this is pretty new to me.

First of all here is what I have:

1994 Denon 545R receiver 60wpcRMS
1994 Denon DCM 340 5 disc CD player
2 day old Monitor Audio GR-10 speakers
1994 Boston Acustic Passive sub.

I am not sure the 60WPC is going to drive these speakers correctly?


What I want to do is get a power amp or integrated amp (not sure what the difference is) to run my GR-10 and be able to hook up a powered sub like a Velodyne SPL1000R.

I want to still use the Denon receiver for the tuner section, I do have a pre-out on the back of the Denon that I assume would go to the amp?

I was thinking 125-150wpc would be a good place to start? I was looking at Acom and NAD, the NAD 372 look like a good amp and it appears there is a pre-out I could connect the powered sub.

Any other suggestions? And would I notice a difference is sound with the NAD?

thanks

[kexodusc]

Integrated amps have the pre-amp built in...so they can accept inputs from source components like CD players etc. power amps just amplify signals and send to speakers. If you were to plug a CD player into a power amp, the output strength to the amp wouldn't be enough. Pre-amp makes the signal strength sufficient.

If your receiver has pre-outs (can support an external amp) I'd go that way. If not, you need an integrated, or a pre-amp.

Check ebay and audiogon.com for great deals on used amps/integrateds.

[Mr Peabody]

You said your receiver has a pre-out so all you need is a power amp. You will notice an improvement in sound and better control of your speakers with an external power amp. You can pick up used NAD, Adcom or Rotel pretty cheap and they are a good bang for the buck.

You may have to Y off of the pre-out with one side to the sub & one to the amp unless you use your speaker leads to the sub.

Did I read your CD player was from 94? If so, you should think about upgrading there or adding a modern DAC. There has been tremendous improvements in digital conversions since 94.

[anamorphic96]

See my post on your previous Yamaha thread in regards to amps.

A CD player upgrade is in order here as well. There have been major improvements in this area. Especially with D/A converters. A good starting point is the NAD C521 BEE or Marantz CD5400 for single players.

For changers look at the Integra CDC 3.4 which has a great build quality and sound for the price.

All players I listed retail for 299 or less.

[titan7]

Thanks!!

I took a look at Rotel today I may end up putting the denon upstairs and replacing the system in the living room. I am looking at going either of these options:

1. Rotel RX-1052 receiver 100x100RMS $900
Rotel RCC-1055 CD changer $700

2. Rotel RC-1070 Preamp $500
Rotel RB-1070 AMP (130x130RMS )$700
Rotel RC-1090 tuner $500
Rotel RCC-1055 CD Changer $700 or the RT-1080 CD (sale guy said it sound better than the changer?)

The only other brand I am looking at is the NAD C372 150x150 RMS and CD and Tuner.

And differences?

[anamorphic96]

If you want a punchier more forward sound. Not bright. Then go with Rotel.

If you want a warmer sound thats smoother and slightly pulled back then look at NAD.

Both brands are equal. Just slightly different flavors.

[Newfiestang50]

I have both the NAD C372 & C272, the 372 bieng the integrated and the 272 the power amp, both of these amps are an excellent choice and you dont have to take my word for it just read the reviews. If your existing reciever has a pre out then you need the C272 power amp, if you reciever does not have the pre outs then the C372 is the one you need. Both amps are exactly the same in terms of the power amp section, but the 372 has the pre amp built in with dual pre outs so it is a good amp if you ever want to expand you system, (ie: run a sub off the second pre out or connect in a second power amp like the C272) the second pre out also has a variable gain adjustment which makes the amp suitable to almost all other amps with different gains. Also if your existing reciever has a pre out and you decided to go with the C272 then there still is a way to connect in a powerd sub privided you purchase one like the one i have (B&W ASW 675) with a connecting link feature. Basically this allows you to connect your pre out from your old reciever to the sub line in, then from the link out of the sub back to the power amp input. If you go this route you then also have the choice on the sub to filter out some of the low frequencies using the subs built in crossover before sending the signal through the amp to the speakers. This i would only do if your speakers are small and cannot handle the power of the low freq. that the C272 can produce. Hope this helps, good luck.

[titan7]

I not sure what the terms used to discribe the amp mean. I can't find a dealer that carries both NAD and Rotel.

The total NAD System will cost $1900
c162 $550
c272 $630
c422 $260
c542 $450

The total Rotel system will cost $2400
rc-1070 $500
rb-1070 $700 (or rb-1080 200x200RMS) $1000
rt-1080 $500
rcc-1055 $700

The NAD is 150 RMS the rc-1070 is 130, the dampening factor on the NAD is >170, the Rotel is 500.

I will listen to the NAD but this is very hard to make a decision without being able to A/B the systems on my Monitor Audio GR-10s.

Any suggestions??

[anamorphic96]

I not sure what the terms used to discribe the amp mean. I can't find a dealer that carries both NAD and Rotel.

The total NAD System will cost $1900
c162 $550
c272 $630
c422 $260
c542 $450

The total Rotel system will cost $2400
rc-1070 $500
rb-1070 $700 (or rb-1080 200x200RMS) $1000
rt-1080 $500
rcc-1055 $700

The NAD is 150 RMS the rc-1070 is 130, the dampening factor on the NAD is >170, the Rotel is 500.

I will listen to the NAD but this is very hard to make a decision without being able to A/B the systems on my Monitor Audio GR-10s.

Any suggestions??

The power differences between these two models is of no importance. What I would look into doing is taking your MA's into each shop and audition the systems. It's not a perfect method but shoould give you an idea of each systems traits with your speakers.

Also keep in mind your MA's dont need alot of power. Just quality power. It's not always about watts. Current output, impedance, and sensitivity are the bigger factors. Along with the size of room you are filling.

You could use the Rotel RA 1062 (60watt) amp and notice a night and day difference compared to the Denon. Same goes for the NAD integrated amps. The C352 would drive those with no problems. Being your speakers only handle 100 watts, have an impedance of 8ohms and a senstivity of 88db you could achieve 106db of sound pressure standing 1 foot away with 64 watts. So what im getting at is it's the quality of the amp design that makes the difference. Not the number of watts it puts out. I would venture to guess that most people listen to music at 85 to 95db when things are turned up. Some people a bit louder and some a bit lower.

If you want the best of both worlds go with the NAD C372 integrated amp for 899 and save your money.

[titan7]

Is the difference in dampening factor between NAD and Rotel matter? The reason I was looking at 100 watts per channel is MA and everyother person I spoke with said the more power the better. I was looking at buying an AMP that would have all the power needs for me in the future. 100-150 seems like a good place.

If watts are not that important, then should I be looking at the dampening factor of the amps? Rotel seems better.

[anamorphic96]

No the damping factor is sorta useless with well made solid state gear. Anything above 60 to 100 or so is just fine. In fact none of the specs amongst the two companies really matter since there both well made. As I mentioned in the previous post. The sensitivity, and impedance are the two biggest factors when matching speakers to amps. Then look at the wattage to some extent then take a look at what the amp can do dynamically. The NAD amps look a bit shy with the wattage but look at what a NAD amp can do dynamically. Also if the amp is rated to drive a 4ohm load continuosly chances are it has decent amp section.

Stop looking at the specs so much. They can be very elusive as to what the product can really do in action. When you are dealing with companies like Rotel, NAD, Adcom, Cambridge Audio, or Arcam. It all comes down to what your ear likes. There all great companies producing outstanding products.

Also keep in mind that if you get all this great gear and things dont sound to your liking it could very well be the room. Which has the biggest influence on sound along with the speakers. I have been into peoples houses where they have spent 5 to 10k and the system will sound mediocre to poor. All because they failed to consider the room acoustics.

[titan7]

Thank you!

I think both can drive 4ohms all day long. If the room impact so much this looks to be a gamble unless I can hear both in my living room. I guess I will just go with the one I like the looks of.