Hello from Down Under, fellow audiophiles and freaks

[basite]

Gday Bert.

I received feedback from E-Stat, who stated the following regarding the PowerGuard
feature that is McIntosh technology :

with my 100 watt Mcintosh integrated, I have rarely seen the power guard lights go on. That was driving power hungry thiels.

at the moment you see the power guard lights light up on the amp, on a 402, you'll be pretty much deaf...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[E-Stat]

...at the moment you see the power guard lights light up on the amp, on a 402, you'll be pretty much deaf...

I'm not trying to be difficult here, but one necessarily incurs a sonic compromise simply by putting the input to output comparator in the signal path. Most high end audio components, on the other hand, strive for a simplified gain path. Compressors are found in many pro amps that are regularly overdriven and otherwise abused where sonic quality is a secondary consideration to power and reliability under all conditions.

My 27 year old Threshold Stasis has neither any sort of in circuit compressor nor any protection circuitry. It has thirty-two closely matched 150 watt output devices to source its 100 watt per channel output which obviates the need for such. And it has been utterly reliable in that many years.

I have found that simple is usually better with the sonic performance of audio circuits.

rw

[bfalls]

I'm not trying to be difficult here, but one necessarily incurs a sonic compromise simply by putting the input to output comparator in the signal path. Most high end audio components, on the other hand, strive for a simplified gain path. Compressors are found in many pro amps that are regularly overdriven and otherwise abused where sonic quality is a secondary consideration to power and reliability under all conditions.

My 27 year old Threshold Stasis has neither any sort of in circuit compressor nor any protection circuitry. It has thirty-two closely matched 150 watt output devices to source its 100 watt per channel output which obviates the need for such. And it has been utterly reliable in that many years.

I have found that simple is usually better with the sonic performance of audio circuits.

rw

I know Threshold has been a great high-end company for many years, but your email made me curious. Should one of your outputs fail, does Threshold have your device parameters documented so a replacement can be found, or would all devices require replacement to acheive the same performance level? I would imagine after 27 years of use, some components parameters would have shifted, electrolitic capacitors dry out, resistor resistances changes, so the latter would seem a better option. After 27 years I can't believe all devices would have shifted identically.

Audio/video has been my hobby for over 40 years. I've never had to replace a failed amp/receiver, so I doubt blown outputs are a real concern in mid/hi-end audio. It just sounds like something a high-end company like Threshold might do for their customers.

I haven't listened to a MC amp since 81' when working for CBS. We used several different models. I worked in their tape mastering and replication plant. We used 2125 in our Mastering/Dolby and A/B rooms, 5150s in our individual QC listening booths and suprisingly used MC40s for our PA system. Luckily after the plant moved to Georgia from Indiana, I was able to get a couple of the MC40s. We also used Crown DC300, but the MCs sounded soooo much better.

For sources we used Nakamichi high-end decks 700, 1000 and 582Zs, as well as Ampeg and 3M mastering decks. They used mostly JBL speakers at the time, Studio Monitors in all except the QC rooms where JBL bookshelf speakers were used. The MCs always sounded great at all volume levels. Never any distortion.

[OzzieAudiophile]

Hi all.

Thanks for the information, it is definately all extra food for thought. Plenty to digest lol.

Welcome aboard challengaaah to the best audio forum on this planet lol. I appreciate
your feedback. Yes I have heavily considered the points you raised, particularly purchasing
from overseas. I found several companies will not provide a warranty if you purchase
from overseas when I pursued this on the official sites.

The hassle to ship here, pay the extra postage, assuming it does not get stopped
at customs, is one thing, but to ship it back for repair, then wait for it to come back,
just even more hassle, the cost for the postage is not covered by warranty. As strange as
it sounds, I am willing to pay the exta 10 to 20% if I can get the components local.

I must say I have not been too impressed with Harvey Norman and most of the other
similar chain shops, not one would say have 'hi-end' gear. I have been rather impressed
with the monster cable range, I'm about to place an order from a US supplier for the
top end cables. I will be able to future-proof with these cables, at least for several
years, and they will still be cheaper to what Harvey Norman will charge.

Retail will be highway robbery in WA, unfortunately there's no such thing as being
smart enough to make anything half decent here, so it's all imports. Some shops
however really know their stuff and I've been around the block long enough to know
whether they know what they are talking about.

I wouldn't mind obtaining a Cedia qualification, but then I'd have to work in the industry.
Well if the money was right...

The amp is going to be my major concern. I still need a replacement, I know I can get
much more out of my DynAudio Contours.

To date I've been impressed only with McIntosh. The other brands I have auditioned, just
have some aspects missing. It may be possible due to poor set up, but you'd think
they'd all set it up to optimal conditions.

[E-Stat]

Should one of your outputs fail, does Threshold have your device parameters documented so a replacement can be found, or would all devices require replacement to acheive the same performance level?

The current Threshold is a completely different company today than it was in the 80s so they would likely not be of much assistance. On the other hand, the gifted designer Nelson Pass (now of Pass Labs), is one of few designers who readily provides schematics and online advice regarding any of his electronic children. You can find many a thread on this very topic here.

I would imagine after 27 years of use, some components parameters would have shifted, electrolitic capacitors dry out, resistor resistances changes, so the latter would seem a better option. After 27 years I can't believe all devices would have shifted identically.

With respect to the outputs, only faster versions of the originals can be found. I replaced the Mallory electrolytics about two years ago. My comments regarding the lack of protection circuitry has more to do with the current capability of the output stage than the device matching.

We also used Crown DC300, but the MCs sounded soooo much better.

That didn't require much as Crown gear of that vintage was pretty harsh sounding. The IC-150 preamp was the poster child for how not to use ICs and massive amounts of negative feedback. I had a D-150 from '74-'75.

The MCs always sounded great at all volume levels. Never any distortion.

Perhaps not overtly audible distortion, but in the true context of the word, they most certainly changed the input signal. I will agree, however, that their sins are largely of omission rather than commission.

rw

[OzzieAudiophile]

Hello everyone.

It's been a long time since I was last on here. What's news is I am about to get a new
Power Amp, and it's about TIME !!!.

I've pretty much tested as much brands of power amps I can for my area. If you can recall
my previous threads, I've not purchased anything earlier due to something either missing,
or it just didn't sound right when I auditioned it. Now anything relatively less than
5 years old over 1k is going to perform better than my Yamaha RX-V1300.

In case you're new to my situation I auditioned the following brands :

McIntosh
Plinius
NAD Master Series
Parasound
(all prices mentioned are in Australian dollars)

McIntosh - is mainly the price, 7 K regardless on how good
it actually is, far beyond my budget for 1 component. It was not really the great
help (you know who you are if you posted on my thread before) which disuaded me from
purchasing. The price made it quite impossible.

Plinius - Hmmm I started to get into my head that anything over 3K is at least worth
an audition, this was going for about 4 to 4.5k ish. However I auditioned several of my
CDs (of various music genres), and just could not lure me. It just didn't sound like
4k to me, not really that much better than my yamaha. Perhaps my DynAudio
speakers were better than the ones in the store, but the latter were reasonably good.

Parasound - Well I recall speakers were DynAudios, Confidence Series, so the next
level up from my Contours. However I would have to blame mainy the setup, I was
quite dissapointed with them. Even if they were half the price of what they were selling
them for, I'd still refuse to buy them. I couldn't even force myself to like anything about
them.

NAD Master Series - The audition was quite good, about 4 to 4.5 K for the power amp.
At the time I was auditioning the entire series. One local supplier was quite dissapointed
to note that most of their customers returned overheated units. Yes Class A run hot,
and if you don't give them room, they can't breather fault of the consumer. Still, that
wasn't the main reason I said no. There were just some features that were missing.
This brand to me appears that it is one of the ones where the more components of the
same series, it would perform better. You know that some components and brands don't
need that kind of dependency. Call it more intuition of the listener. Take the last comment
with a grain of salt. Perhaps you can relate to that comment.

Well I heard about the Xindak advertised in the same supplier who used to stock
NAD Master Series. I then asked if anyone knew much about this, was it a Class A ? etc.
I was informed it was, and the website (as little English that's doesn't appear translated),
confirms this. I thought ok what does it sound like ?

To be fair I thought it would be better to bring in my Yamaha and compare it. The Dyns
probably would not fit in my car, plus they had similar quality speakers. First their
speakers were hooked up to my Yamaha, their source, my CDs, their cabling. Yep,
my Yam could not drive those speakers haha. Absolutely terrible job. The music was
reasonably clear, but... the speakers sounded quite lousy. BIG tip folks, if your speakers
are decent enough, your amp must also be able to power them more than adequately.

Ok well I thought I could use the Yam as a pre amp (as I could not afford a pre and
power as 1 purchase), so tried the Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Power Amplifier, hooked
up the speaker cables to the latter, same cables, same source (Cambridge Audio 840C),
and my same CDs.

You know you hit a winner when you hear 2 seconds into any song that you play the
extreme amount of improvement. No I'm not exaggerating you read right 2 seconds.
The store speakers were very easily powered by this Amp, I would imagine the overall
experience would be just a little worse off since I don't have a decent source. However
400 W p/c for my 250 W Dyns, yes really will do the job.

These monoblocks will easily fit into my hifi cabinet, I have at least 11 to 13 cm extra
space in all dimensions so they can breathe. I will however will double check to make
sure it is enough. If these Class A's need more space, then, grrrrr hehe.

I cannot wait to get them and will be soon


Big problem however, I am not very happy with any pre amp I've seen from Xindak or
anywhere else for that matter. I am looking for a pre amp that has...

1. Xlr inputs and outputs as options
2. At least 4 inputs. 2 of them ideally optical.
3. HDMI ins and outs (so I can fully replace my Yamaha receiver)
4. 5.1 speaker inputs (so I can fully replace my Yamaha receiver)

To date the only pre amp which meet all 4 above is the Marantz AV8003.

After looking at it on paper, can somebody please explain to me as to when I think of
Marantz, I think of home theature specialists only, and not as competitive in the 2-channel
market ?

Ok I know what you're about to say, you cannot really get the best of 2 and x-channel
in 1 box, at least for serious listening. Is the AV8003 too good to be true or is it
the real deal and solve my dialemma ?

[E-Stat]

... so tried the Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Power Amplifier, hooked up the speaker cables to the latter, same cables, same source (Cambridge Audio 840C),and my same CDs.

Congrats. The amps look gorgeous (at least to my aesthetic). I like seeing lots of brawny TO-3 outputs that don't get upset when you throw them a curve with a challenging speaker load. Here's a great naked pic: scroll down a bit.

Big problem however, I am not very happy with any pre amp I've seen from Xindak or anywhere else for that matter... Is the AV8003 too good to be true or is it
the real deal and solve my dialemma ?

Sorry, I'm not much of a high end AV processor buff. You might start a new post on the HT section to get better exposure to your question.

rw

[OzzieAudiophile]

Hi nightflier.

Thanks for the feeback on the Plinius. Well suffice to say the supplier who sold me the
Xindak Power amp no longer stock Plinius, so it is find of out of the picture now.

I have auditioned NAIM, and other brands in the shops I've been to here in WA. However
as all of you would know different shops have different listening environments, and different
combination of components. So what you'd experience at home could be anything
between 5% to 90% as true to your listening experience in the shop. Sadly to a certain
extent it is a hit and miss thing.

E-Stat, thankyou for the link, you absolutely rock. I'm seriously going to save that
link as my favourite - favourite. Well I'm glad Xindak made the list, but most of all, it
made my list, and within the next week or two I will be experiencing it in my own
home.

I will start a post in the HT section as per your suggestion.

Yeah the Xindak was right into my budget, and solved the inability to supply enough
juice to my Dynaudio Contour 1.8 Mark IIs.

Now, I will meet my dialemma IF I get the Cambridge Audio 840c because it has 2
inputs, is a DAC and upscales CDs/inputs to 24/384. Now I'm 99.9% know it performs
very well. No doubt about that. However I see someone sold theirs like 6 months later
because they found it rather fatiguing, and other people on here have said the same
thing.

I really don't want a fatiguing player. Then again I don't necessarily need to get a player
which will play SACD, as I have a PS3, and there's no way I'd get rid of that since
it plays all of my Blu Ray collection.