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Thread: Crown XLS202D

  1. #1
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Crown XLS202D

    After exchanging comments with some enthusiasts on another forum I've ordered a Crown XLS202D. Another XLS model was judged to sound very good driving Apogee ribbons. Any amp that can drive Apogee's deserves a listen. They have an extremely low impedance and need lots of power. Krell's are considered almost a necessity to make them sound good. Flo may speak up here.

    The XLS202D is rated at 200WPC@ 8 Ohms, 300WPC@ 4 Ohms. The cost was $199 shipping included. I purchased this to replace an Adcom GFA-545 that's been driving my subs. A buddy has offered me $200 for the Adcom. If the Crown turns out not to be suitable I can sell it for a very small loss. It has a noisy (so I've heard) fan. A dropping resistor or a new quieter fan ($10) may be necessary.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  2. #2
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Sounds good Joe. Never heard a Crown so I'll look forward to your thoughts. Since I know you don't have any Apogees, what will this power?

  3. #3
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    I purchased this to replace an Adcom GFA-545 that's been driving my subs.
    A lightweight Class H amp should work fine driving your subs.

    rw

  4. #4
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    That may be so, but where can I get one with 200WPC@ 8 Ohms, 300WPC@ 4 Ohms for $199 including shipping?

    PC: It's for driving my subs only. I'm interested in the increased headroom over the Adcom.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  5. #5
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    PC: It's for driving my subs only. I'm interested in the increased headroom over the Adcom.
    Sweet. That's gonna sound awesome. BTW, my wife and I have been talking about a trip to Pittsburg to visit my aunt. How long of a drive is Philly from there? It would be awesome to pull a sniper run for a day, drink some suds and listen to some tunes.

  6. #6
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    It's 300 miles PC. You are welcome to visit anytime.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  7. #7
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    UPS delivered it today. I've unpacked it and have it on static display. I'm going to plug it in and let it cook for a day or so before I put it in my system.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  8. #8
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    What no pics? Did you put it inside a non-descript box for testing?

  9. #9
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    I don't think we'll ever get a picture of his system...

  10. #10
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Sorry guys. I don't have a digital camera. I don't even have a cell phone. If any of you are ever in the area you are welcome to visit. As soon as I am able I'll post some pictures.

    PC, I'm certain everything sounds different. I don' need no steenkin' blind testin'. I previously mentioned, a lot of the posters on AK think vintage Japanese receivers are the pinnacle of audio, both construction and sound wise. Plus, they're so cheap they won't even listen to other or new gear let alone buy it. To them, it's almost as if it didn't come from a GW or SA or cost more than $150 it's snake oil.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  11. #11
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Sorry guys. I don't have a digital camera. I don't even have a cell phone. If any of you are ever in the area you are welcome to visit. As soon as I am able I'll post some pictures.

    PC, I'm certain everything sounds different. I don' need no steenkin' blind testin'. I previously mentioned, a lot of the posters on AK think vintage Japanese receivers are the pinnacle of audio, both construction and sound wise. Plus, they're so cheap they won't even listen to other or new gear let alone buy it. To them, it's almost as if it didn't come from a GW or SA or cost more than $150 it's snake oil.
    I hear ya, and your opinion of AK has resonated with me. That thread was a little over the top. Buddy was WAAAYYY deluded. I just don't know why these guys can't find peace with "the order of things" and accept that they aren't at the top of the food chain.

    I was going to post again but they locked it as you know. He kept talking about snobbery and such, but look at the Asylum. The Vinyl Asylum is a mix of Technics freaks and just about every manner of super high end table going. They all play together with respect, so he has no clue what he's talking about.

    Infact, I posted in the Vintage Asylum regarding my Eico and was messaged and helped by Mike Samra. I now know he is infamous for assisting people. His collective gear and knowledge is well beyond me, but he still has a patient and cool manner. No snobbery at all.

    Anyhow, I could tell he was getting you worked up. I think he had everyone going, and that's probably the majority of his shtick. No one will pay attention to him for his gear, so he has to make noise somehow.

    I'm blabbing on here and crapping your thread. How's the amp sounding?

  12. #12
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    First impression is, the fan is way too loud. I'm going to replace it with a much quieter one. Ordered one today. $10 for a exact replacement. I tried it on my stats. It seems a little grainy, hard and overly clinical. The person who recommended it said it took 100 hours before the sound smoothed out. It's driving my subs right now.

    As for AK, the place is full of guys who never got over wanting the big Pioneer, Sansui or Kenwood receiver they first saw in college years ago. They seem to think the science of electronics stagnated or went downhill from there. I feel the same way about a lot of the speakers they rave about. Finding a pair of Mach One's is not a score in my book. There is more reverse snobbery there than any other site I've found.

    I'm not into name calling or petty jealousy over gear. Calling anyone who has something better than a "vintage" receiver a snob is a bit much. Stuff I can't afford or IMO is excessively priced does not automatically become a snake oil product. Some people are cheap. Some people are deaf. Some people are both. I would like to think I'm neither. I'm just poor!
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  13. #13
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    I tried it on my stats. It seems a little grainy, hard and overly clinical. The person who recommended it said it took 100 hours before the sound smoothed out. It's driving my subs right now.
    For a guy who listens through an SP9, I wonder if that amp can ever sound any better to you. I suppose you'll have to countdown the hours to find out.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Some people are cheap. Some people are deaf. Some people are both. I would like to think I'm neither. I'm just poor!
    ...Amen brutha, Amen.

  14. #14
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    The recommendation came from someone who uses an XLS to drive Apogee ribbons. He is quite enthusiastic about the overall sound. He also said it took 100+ hours for the sound to smooth out.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  15. #15
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Do SS amps really change over time?

  16. #16
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Everything changes over time. I believe in burn in of new gear. The sound of the Yamaha DVD S1800 I recently purchased changed a lot over the first 40 hours of use. I expect the Crown to change for the better.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  17. #17
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Well, I've been running this Crown continuously for the last fifteen days or so. I have tried it driving only my stats, no subs and with subs including crossover other amps etc.
    At first turn on driving only my ESL panels my first thought was "nice bass". My panels with no sub have the bass extension of a small bookshelf speaker. There was more bass than I remembered. There was also an etched quality to the upper midrange/low treble. It sounded kind of Hi-Fi'ish.
    So, I connected it to my subs substituting for the modified Hafler DH-200 that is usually there. Stats back on the tubes with the usual crossover frequency. I dialed in the levels and checked phasing using Stereophile Test CD-2 and my "Vintage" Rat Shack meter. Nice bass! It sounded deep rich and just a little woolly. The woolly sound seems to have slowly faded with extended use. Nice Bass!!! My subs have never sounded better or deeper. It was driving my subs until last Sunday night.

    I put it back driving my stats by itself. Hmmm, pretty good bass for no subs! The overly etched sound I was hearing seems to have faded away. Now it has a nice smooth extended top end. The midrange (ESL territory) was clean with nice depth familiar tunes sounded well, familiar. That last bit of (see all the way to the back of the stage) depth. Isn't there. I suspect it never will be. It's SS not tube. Letting it run solo is a huge compliment. If I didn't have the tubes to refer back to I may not have noticed the slightly shorter narrower soundstage. Tonight I switched it back to driving my subs (that's why I bought it). Nice bass!!!!! Gorgeous, deep, smooth bass.

    This amp is an unbelievable bargain. $200 for 200WPC@8 Ohms. The next model up may be an even better buy. $250 for 300WPC@8 Ohms.

    The only con I have is the fan. It makes noise. I have looked into replacing it with a quiet one. I disconnected it and monitored heat sink temperatures for a couple of days. I guess I don't push it hard enough. It got barely warm. Even then, it was while driving my stats. It doesn't seem to get much above room temp driving my subs.

    I'm gonna' get another and run them in mono for my subs. I think having 600W@8 Ohms per amp will be enough sub power. TL's are sort of efficient.

    I have heard the (same price) Behringer A-500. The Crown is a IMO a much better amp.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  18. #18
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    I think having 600W@8 Ohms per amp...
    That's a pretty good trick considering they only pull 500 watts from the wall. More than 100% efficiency!

    Back panel

    rw

  19. #19
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    That's a pretty good trick considering they only pull 500 watts from the wall. More than 100% efficiency!

    Back panel

    rw
    Class DDD perhaps?

  20. #20
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Sounds great Joe. I'm glad it worked out for you. I have been studying mono set ups over the last month or two. The Golden Tube can be switched to mono, so I want to get another.

    I like the idea of mono amps for your subs. You'll be able to get a real deep and rich tone with some punch, ideal IMO. Especially since panels can't come anywhere near that.

    The ESL's I had heard actually weren't too bad in the bass dept. It was present and audible but certainly seemed slow and at times innaccurate. The other issue I had was a limited range of seating positions for the listener. If i went too far it was like being punished. I found it odd for a speaker that seemingly fills every bit of space with sound.

    I'm headed to AKFest tommorrow. I plan to have a listen to the Opera Consanance LP 6.1, for as long as they'll have me loittering. I'll let you know how it sounds. Where are things at with your upgrade? I have been looking at arm options for a Micro Seiki, however I would want to spend time with the stock arm first. Anyhow, getting ahead of myself here.

  21. #21
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    That's a pretty good trick considering they only pull 500 watts from the wall. More than 100% efficiency!

    Back panel

    rw
    That's what Crown says!
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  22. #22
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    That's what Crown says!
    In a kinda sorta way. Note the wording found in the spec sheet:

    "*1 kHz Power: refers to maximum average power in watts a 1 kHz with 0.5% THD."

    Specs

    "Maximum average power?" So which is it? Maximum or average? No amp is 100% efficient, much less more so. Cold fusion amp?

    rw

  23. #23
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Hey Joe,

    Sounds very interesting.
    Does your Crown amp utilize op-amps? I'm wondering whether different resistors result to better sound than better capacitors or op-amps.

    Also, I know you have modified Dynaco and Hafler. Do you modify gear yourself?

    JRA

  24. #24
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    I haven't taken the cover off yet. When I do I'll be very surprised if I don't see some IC's.

    Yes, I do my own mods. I've probably inhaled enough lead fumes to asphyxiate half a dozen people. Radio Shack's Silver solder is what I use now. My first piece of gear (1967) was a Fisher KX-90 tube amp kit.

    I've done one mod on the Crown. I've disconnected the cooling fan. A much quieter replacement is on the way.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  25. #25
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Very cool!!!

    Chances are the Crown employs cheap JRC opamps.
    Any ideas on what you are planning to swap out?

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