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  1. #1
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    Cary CAD 300 SEI or Manley Stingray

    I've been offered 2 very interesting tube amps, along with good discount and free of charge installment.
    Cary CAD 300 SEI $ 3900 and'
    Manley Stingray
    $ 1650,
    the problem is i have a B&W 683, i wonder if either of them have enough power to drive my speakers,
    because i've tested them at the dealer with B&W 685 & B&W 684, and it sounded they're lack of bass (unfortunately the dealer didn't have a 683 stock) specially the [B]Cary CAD 300 SEI [B], but the depth and the mid & high are superb.
    Should i take any of them?

  2. #2
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    What is it you are doing, the Cary is a power amp and the Stingray is an integrated? Do you have a preamp already? Are you just wanting to get into tubes?

    Personally, I'd pass on the Cary, sure it's Class A but it's only 15 watts, probably not the best match with your speakers which are only 90dB efficient. The Cary has a switch for 4 and 8 ohms which should be tried in both positions to see which gives the best bass. Plus for nearly $4k you can get some killer power amps from the likes of Krell, Bryston or larger powered tube amps from Conrad Johnson or VTL etc. Cary builds another budget line called Audio Electronics which is made to compete with Chinese imports. I have no direct experience with the line, www.amusicdirect.com carry them and offer a 30 day trial. You can also find muscular integrated amps with great sound for under $4k so I'd keep shopping. Audio Research makes a 60 watt integrated that should push the B&W if you like their sound. You might also try a warm sounding integrated by Musical Fidelity, a NAD Master Series or PS Audio. I don't know who else carries them except my local dealer but T+A makes a killer integrated amp for around $3k that is 150 wpc, called "The Power Plant". T+A sounds incredible. You have a lot of options and deals are every where don't rush into something that isn't going to do the job.

    The Manley might be alright for two reasons, it's switchable between Single Ended Triode (SET) at 20 watts or Ultralinear at 40 watts. The 40 watts still isn't going to give you concert level sound with the 683 but it may push them well enough. In addition, there is a subwoofer output which would allow the addition of a sub to fill in more bass. A big draw back for me, last I knew the Stingray did not have a remote control.
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  3. #3
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Good advice Mr.P. For that kind of cash I would be looking at other amps. If your looking for a tube or hybrid amp, consider the Van Alstine FET Valve power amp. Its a tube hybrid for $2200, 500wpc at 4ohms and has excellent bass, transparency and sound stage. Its a bargain at that price. www.avahifi.com He gives a 30day trial.
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  4. #4
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    Thank you all...
    Really appreciate ur advises...
    For another option, what would u suggest?
    Do u think the Cambridge Audio 840W a good amp?
    Or Mark Levinson 431 (maybe a bit over class for 683)
    I've heard that Krell is a good match for B&W...

  5. #5
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    I too would pass on the cary, 15 watts class A could drive the 683's, but not to their full potential.

    The Manley stingray, however, is one magnificent amp. Great reputation, great sound, nice match with the B&W's too if I recall correctly...

    With B&W's though, more power is always welcome, so a hybrid amp might indeed bring the solution if you're looking for tube sound...

    Keep them spinning,
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  6. #6
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    Krell has an integrated amp which I believe is 200x2 for around $2,500.00.

    You need to answer a couple of our questions though. Are you wanting a power amp or integrated amp? If a power amp what preamp do you already have?

    Also many of the amps you mentioned have quite different presentations, what have you listened to as far as gear and what do you like? As far as suggestions there have been several mentioned that should give you a start.

    Levinson may be a bit of a mismatch for the 683 but maybe not if you ever plan to upgrade. Big difference between Levinson and Cambridge.

    Also, I was wondering what you are using for a source?
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  7. #7
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    If you could get your hands on a Mark Levinson for a reasonable price go for it. To answer your question, the Cambridge W has gotten very good reviews. I really havent read anything bad about it. Cambridge audio makes good equipment at reasonable prices. I used to own a Cambridge Audio 840c CDP. It had excellent build quality. I would add a Parasound A21 amp to that list if your considering the Cambridge unit.
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  8. #8
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    Actually i'm using a receiver right now, Onkyo 806, but i feel it hasn't had enough power to drive my 683, therefore i went to several hifi store to look out for a power amp, and the last time i bump into this store offering me tubes amps (Manley Stingray and Cary 300 SEI / both are integrated amps), and guess what... they sound nice.
    I've this plan, if i goes to tubes for the 683, i'm going to buy a new pair of speakers to replace the 683 for the Onkyo 806 (probably i'm going to get the B&W 684).
    But, if i stay with adding power amp to my system, do u have any suggestion?
    Btw, i use a hybrid cd player, Spark Audio MT-CD40.
    I've a very confusing question...
    Actually, are Adcom amps good amps? I've seen their reviews are very good, but from what i know, they sound pretty harsh... what are your opinions on Adcom gfa-5802 and Adcom gfa-555SE...

  9. #9
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    I'm wondering what you mean by the 806 not driving your speakers, I realize the 806 is just a receiver but 140 watts of Onkyo power should drive them adequately. If it's loudness then I'm wondering if there's a set up problem. If it's sound quality, could still be a set up problem, or if not, you'd have to buy a pretty nice and powerful amp to notice a gain. The 806 should actually be a good match with the 683's and drive them with no problem.

    Do you use the analog out of the CD player? I'd test that against the digital out to see which has the better sound the CD player's DAC or the 806's internal DAC. When trying the CD player analog out use the "direct" or "bypass" feature to bypass all the internal processing circuits. This should yield good results.

    What are the receiver's internal set up volumes set at? If below -0- you might want to run them up a bit to see if the extra power helps.

    Look the 806 has a hardy amp section for a receiver, I'd have to question the motives of some one trying to solve your probelm with a $4k 15 watt tube amp, and, why would they be showing you integrated amps when you wanted to add a power amp?

    If you seriously want more power to the front two speakers get a 200 watt or so Krell, Levinson or Bryston. You can pick up off of Audiogon a Krell or Bryston used for $2k give or take. If you find the right dealer with an over stock or motivation to move product you may find a new one for not much more. I had a chance to buy a new Krell kav-2250 for around $2.5k but just didn't need it.

    I've had some Adcom gear in a second system for years. The gfa-5500 is smoother than the smaller 5400. I feel with the right source and in a room without a lot of reflective surfaces they sound fine. I haven't heard the 555 but I suspect it isn't far off from the 5500.They are cheap enough used but wouldn't have the resolution of the Krell/Bryston.

    Do you have a separate room for your potential tube system? If not, maybe you should listen to some HT separates. They aren't going to sound like tubes but may give you the sonic boost you seek. The Marantz AV8003 and matching amp run around $5k. Check out the Rotel and Anthem. Some here use the Emotiva gear and seem to be happy with it but I can't say how it would compare to the 806.
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  10. #10
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    Long time no post, but I just had to get in on this conversation while waiting to call Japan for work. Must get out of here.....

    Anyways, we used to have a member here that used to drive Dynaudio Special 25 with his Stingray. You guys remember that red-headed Dusty?
    He used to tell us that his Manley didnt have enough oomph for his Dynaudio. If I recall correctly, Dyn 25 are not that difficult speakers to drive for tubes. Efficiency isn't quite there, but they hold rather steady impedence curve around 6 ohms. B&W aren't that difficult to drive, but not the easiest. I imagine they will suck some life out of lower mids to upper Lows with Tube integrated.

    300B tube's forte isn't in lower side of audible frequency. As you've found out, they do offer sweet sound in mid~high regions. I really need to get acquainted with 300B based amps AT home.

    I've heard Manley, but have not heard that particular Cary integrated amp. If anything I would go with mentioned integrated amps and go with different set of speakers. B&W are terrific speakers, but there are others.

    Also, if you are going to get one of those amps, then get to audiogon.com and buy one for 30% less than the amount you had mentioned. You can get a different set of speakers with money save. Or if you are interested in Hybrid integrated amps, why not try Pathos Acoustics? You can get a couple of Classics Mk3 or a Logo with that budget.

    Well I gotta get back to work. See you guy in about.....4 months.

    Peace,
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  11. #11
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    Mr. P,
    as i rear your post, i come up with an idea.
    If i seperate my system, do you think 'Manley Stingray' could be paired up nicely with B&W 805S?
    Does it have enough power to drive the 805S, for what i know it has 20 wpc in single ended mode and 40 wpc in triode mode. Btw, i don't know how they work and what're the difference.
    Thanks

  12. #12
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    I haven't had hands on with the Stingray. Our local B&W dealer usually had the 805 and that series hooked to larger Rotel, Classe' and ARC gear. From what JRA was saying and reading a Stereophile review of the N805 my guess is the Stingray would have a difficult time of it. The reviewer was driving those things with a Bryston and Levinson power amp.

    Are there any other brands you have access to or interested in? Have you heard any McIntosh? They have a nice sound, and you may find them closer to tubes than most solid state gear and they would have the drive for some B&W's. Or, take a listen to some Paradigm speakers which are more efficient than B&W, I actually like them better.

    You might also look for a more powerful tube amp. Something I found when getting into tubes, it costs money to get power. I didn't hear one but I was considering a Cayin 90 watt integrated beast. Or, go to some Manley separates. The Conrad Johnson amp I have, MV60, drove my Dynaudio Contour t2.5's well enough. If the amp can drive them, it will drive 805's. I wanted more volume and eventually bought another one and had them converted to mono to double the power output. They make a MV60se which uses 6550 tubes for a bit more power and control.

    If you've never had tubes before they require a little maintenance. Mostly just biasing on set up and checking it occasionally for optimum performance. I like easy, CJ uses an LED and provides a plastic tool to adjust the setting. Others make you use a voltage meter. Some integrated amps have a self biasing circuit. I've heard pros and cons on that but the gear I have now is my first tube set up. I had a 250 watt Krell amp before going tubes.
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  13. #13
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    805's will work with the stingray, but as previously mentioned, with B&W's, the more power, the better...

    Mr Peabody made a good suggestion there too. Mcintosh. as an owner, of course, I am a tad biased, but Mcintosh makes a very good pair with B&W.

    You'll be able to find them used, there's some good vintage, but I'd advise too look at their newer products..;

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  14. #14
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    Check this:
    http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just...ews-grand.html

    This is supposed to be an "affordable" amp but I didn't find a published price, you'd have to check with a dealer.
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  15. #15
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    Thanks for the posts.
    I'll look forward for the Conrad Johnson

  16. #16
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    The CJ MV60's & 60se can usually be found on Audiogon for under $2k.

    Another popular configuration that some do is to use a tube preamp for the advantage of tubes but mate it with a solid state amp for more power and control. Me personally, the magic didn't fully happen until both pieces were tube. I was willing to give up a bit of control for the nice sound I was getting from both being tube. Actually, I found the CJ amp very full in the bass area.
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  17. #17
    RGA
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    I think you're on the right track looking at tube amps - if you go low powered tubes you can get the best sound quality but your speakers are less than ideal. So if the plan is ALSO to move away from B&W then buying one of those tube amps may be a good thing. If the speakers are a must then I would look at something like the Grant Fidelity Rita - this amp will drive any loudspeaker I know of with the exception of the very difficult low impedance - which B&W doesn't make.

    The Grant Fidelity Rita 880 is a beast of an amplifier with outstanding build quality. http://grantfidelity.com/site/RITA-8...Tube-Amplifier

    The one thing I didn't like about reviewing this amp was lugging it around - it's over 120lbs and the thing is massive. It's definitely something to consider - and it looks a lot better in person than the photos.
    Last edited by RGA; 04-19-2009 at 02:39 AM.

  18. #18
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    Where is the GF built and which country is GF's home? I found the footnotes funny. You'd think putting an amp on the market with a retail of over $4k some one could spell "vacuum". This leads me to believe the "hand built" must be built by low wage Asian hands. I'd think if it was my company I wouldn't have taken that shipment of parts or eaten the loss to have correct ones made before letting them hit the market. I know this don't effect sound quality but it does say a lot, to me any way, about the company themselves.

    It is an interesting amp, being class A and tube I bet it warms up a room pretty well. I like that no owner biasing is required. I'd like to hear one to see if it's as powerful as they claim, the one reviewer was quoted saying it sounded more like a 200 watt amp.
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  19. #19
    RGA
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    Mr. P

    It's made in China - you can read my review at dagogo.com for details. It's a Canadian owned company and is a rebadedged Jungson with upgrades. The amp runs cool in fact which is a novel feature - this is seriously good amplification for a low price. I have not heard anything from Krell I like better - despite the English www.dagogo.com/GrantFidelitySystem.html
    Last edited by RGA; 04-19-2009 at 08:13 PM.

  20. #20
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    Hi guys,
    i've gone around testing but haven't made any conclusion.
    The funny thing is like this, when i went to this store they make a demo with exchanging the tubes, some ot them they use 'telefunken' to replace the 'russian tubes' (they said for the input) and some 'western - what' to replace the 'yugoslavia - made', suddenly the sound improve, i don't know if my ears or it really happens.
    Do you think it's a good idea if i go for tubes...
    I mean changing the tubes....

  21. #21
    RGA
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    Part of the point of tube ownership is to 'tube roll' because different tubes have different attributes and weaknesses. Part if it depends on the type of tubes and the amplifier's design. Generally they put in cheaper tubes and let you decide if you want to spend more for something better. You also want to factor in that some tube amps use very expensive tubes. My OTO uses quite inexpensive ones - but there are 9 of them.

  22. #22
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    From another perspective I'm not one to tinker with my gear. I especially wouldn't buy a new piece that some one has switched tubes around. I would want the stock amp as a reference in order to tell if other tubes made a difference one way or the other. In addition, I wouldn't want anything to void the warranty. I do understand that tube rolling is common and why it's done. Maybe if I had more knowledge about tubes and the brands I wouldn't be so hesitant. I personally like to walk before I run. Whether you do it or not is your decision and how comfortable you are with it. There's guys on the forums here that do roll and know a lot about it. Another consideration is what gear you end up with. Something like that Grand Fidelity where all you had to do is plug in matched pair sounds so easy I might be tempted to do it. I guess even if you had to use a meter it wouldn't be so bad, I just don't get into messing with my gear that much, I like to turn it on and sit my rear down and listen.
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  23. #23
    RGA
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    That's another reason I like SET's and the amps from Audio Note - there is no tube bias adjusting - all their stuff is plug and play - some makers also provide the meter on the amplifiers like Antique Sound Labs.

    The GF Rita is good because it's easy to use - has remote control for the guys who must have this and it runs very cool despite the big tubes used. It deserved product of the year from that outfit because for a newbie or someone wanting to try tube amps it offers a lot where others do not

    1) it runs cool - so none of those guys can complain about tube heat - no hotter than a SS amp

    2) It has remote control

    3) it has more than enough power to drive any speaker other than the truly low impedance variety and even then it might (I have not tried).

    4) The price to build quality and performance ratio has to be considered one of the best around

    The only downside is that there is no on board phono stage but it can be purchased separately and would probably be better going that route anyway. There are some other amps in this price range too that I prefer the sound of but they don't have the features, drive and build quality - so you make some trades.

    They also have an in home audition program - you'd be out shipping but then you saved gas and wear and tear on your car - so that's not too bad either.

  24. #24
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    Hi guys,
    I've tested a lot of tube gear in various hi-fi store.
    If i wish to upgrade a tube amplifier with a better tube, which ones are best,
    i've been shown some telefunken tubes and genalex tubes along with westinghouse, actually which are better?
    Everytime when there's a demo and when they changed the tubes, it's like something magic happen, the sound improved a lot.
    So, i made up a conclusion, if i'm going to get a tube amp, i'm going to replace the tubes, specially the input tubes.
    I've another question, what's the driver tubes function, are they affecting the sound?

  25. #25
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    [QUOTE=Mr Peabody]What is it you are doing, the Cary is a power amp and the Stingray is an integrated? Do you have a preamp already? Are you just wanting to get into tubes?

    Actually, the Cary is also an integrated.
    Say what you mean, mean what you say!

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