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  1. #1
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    cant decide....emotiva/anthem/rotel

    Hey guys, please help me out here since I have been having this dilemma on which to choose.

    I currently have the Bowers and Wilkins CM 5 (B&W). I am doing only a stereo 2 channel setup. So I am considering separates and am stuck between these choices.

    Emotiva (Either the 2 UPA-1 monoblocks, or one UPA-2 or one XPA-2, & most likely their usp-1 preamp)
    Anthem- (Their Integrated 225 model or the MC-20 amplifier with any pre-amp)
    Rotel- (The combo would be the RB-1562 with RC-1550)

    or is there any preamp/amp combo that would out-do any of the above 3 options for 1500-2000 ? (inclusive of both preamp and amp)

    I can't decide which of the above 3 would make the CM-5's sound the absolute best.

    People please please help out, thank you so much

  2. #2
    Ajani
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    I've owned both Rotel and Emotiva separates and IMO they are fairly similar... Haven't done more than audition Anthem gear though... That said, I doubt you would go wrong with any of those options...

    So my question is what system have you heard the CM5s on that you really liked the sound of? I'd suggest getting that or something similar...

  3. #3
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    ive heard the rotel and anthem integrated

    i think rotel was like 1 percent better

    but supposedly everyone says emotiva is the new thing now and its better

    so i dont know

    i have a harman kardon 3490 currently. (integrated reciever for 280$)

  4. #4
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeanderson10 View Post
    ive heard the rotel and anthem integrated

    i think rotel was like 1 percent better

    but supposedly everyone says emotiva is the new thing now and its better

    so i dont know

    i have a harman kardon 3490 currently. (integrated reciever for 280$)
    I don't think Emotiva is better than Rotel... IMO it's similar for less money... If you are looking to save a few bucks then Emo is the best bet, if not I'd opt for the Rotel...

    But keep in mind that there are a trillion other excellent integrated amp choices in your budget that might sound even better than the separates on your list...So if you get the chance to do more auditioning before making a decision, then I'd suggest you do so...

  5. #5
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    thanks for the reply again

    but can you please help me choose then?

    you said there were a million more better in my price range..


    whats the top 5 integrated you would suggest in that price range

    and whats the top 5 separates you would suggest in that price range

    thanks so much sir

  6. #6
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeanderson10 View Post
    thanks for the reply again

    but can you please help me choose then?

    you said there were a million more better in my price range..


    whats the top 5 integrated you would suggest in that price range

    and whats the top 5 separates you would suggest in that price range

    thanks so much sir
    I don't want you to get the impression that I think there is anything wrong with your options... They are all good options... I just mean that there are lots of other option that MIGHT be better than your choices.. But only you can decide if they sound better to you (with your choice of speakers)...

    However, from your list I'd want to audition Rotel + I would add the Naim Nait 5i-2 and Musical Fidelity M3i integrateds to the list...

  7. #7
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    I would say that Rotel and Anthem would be the more reliable of the three since i have heard a lot less problems over the years with their stuff and I know that Rotel works pretty well with B&W since I have worked with both brands and B&W's are bright speakers to begin with so I would not go the bright path and I have heard Emo amps are a brighter amp but that is not from my experience that is just from what others have told me. As far as other options there are several separate setups in those price ranges as far as used off of Audiogon but new you are limited if you are budgeting $1500 to $2000 dollars for both preamp and amp. My preamp retailed for around $1500 new just by itself not counting the amp and it is on the starting end of high end separates and even though I think it sounds better than many that cost more in that price class new the brands you are looking at specialize in that price class of components and most other companies making components in that price class are going to have integrated amps in this class not separates as they are of a higher price scale when put together. there are some guys on here talking about Class D audio amplifier kits and they say they are very good at driving panel speakers so they might be a good option for you for running you B&W's and they are priced to were you could still have money left over for a preamp and they are starting to make fully put together amplifiers for a affordable price point. Now I have not heard these units but the people that have on this forum say that they are very good for their price and are better than units priced a lot higher. As far as what preamp to put with them I would ask some of the other guys on here or do some internet research and see what people are putting with them. this might be a very good option to get you a good amount of power to get the most out of your speakers at a price you can live with. I have also run Adcom amps with B&W and have heard good results from that but you would be looking in the used market to get the best deal with adcom.

    yamaha htr5560 receiver (HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Dynaudio audience 60 mains
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  8. #8
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    but ajani they are both under 80 watts per channel.
    the one i have now is 120 watts per channel

    i was hoping minimum 150 watts per channel

  9. #9
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    the Class D Audio amplifiers sell for a little over $550 and the model I am speaking of is the SDS model and I believe it puts out around 250 watts per channel at 8 ohms.

    yamaha htr5560 receiver (HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Dynaudio audience 60 mains
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  10. #10
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeanderson10 View Post
    but ajani they are both under 80 watts per channel.
    the one i have now is 120 watts per channel

    i was hoping minimum 150 watts per channel
    If your aim is more power then I'd stick with the Rotel or one of the Class D amps that Harley Guy suggested...

    Though I do wonder whether you actually need more power...

  11. #11
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    hey harley guy, you have a link to any?

  12. #12
    Ajani
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    Here's a thread discussing the Class D Amps:

    Class D Audio ready-made

    and here's their website:

    http://classdaudio.com/

  13. #13
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    yeah I think Ajani has been looking at them too so he has the link to them. I will say that don't get thrown by the simplicity of the designs they are class D which look like they are small circuits and should not be able to make the power they do but they are way more efficient than other designs that use most of the input power to make output wattage. their designs are very simple and clean and since I heard about them I have been studying them and thinking about one myself for some time now its just I have other things going on right now and my system is pretty complete as it sits right now but someone looking for a dedicated two channel system should look at them very closely not just because they are priced well but because from what I have heard they can hold their own against much more expensive products.

    yamaha htr5560 receiver (HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Dynaudio audience 60 mains
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  14. #14
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeanderson10 View Post
    thanks for the reply again

    but can you please help me choose then?

    you said there were a million more better in my price range..


    whats the top 5 integrated you would suggest in that price range

    and whats the top 5 separates you would suggest in that price range

    thanks so much sir
    Dont know if you would like tubes/hybrid Integrate amp but Vincent makes two sweet integrated in your price range
    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...ISV236MK%20BLK


    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...26%20%20%20BLK





    I've listened to Vincent myself and was really impressed. Sunday I am bringing one of their tubed preamps home to try in my system for a while and if it sounds as good in my system as it did at the dealers I may make the purchase. Its a good product.

    Heres one that you may also like...Harley has Nu Force and he seems to like it alot. I trust his opinion so I am listing it here as well.

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...IA7V3%20%20BLK




    This will also be one of the creams of the crop in your price range...outstanding stuff.

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...V5350%20%20SIL



    And NAD has a very large following and in your price range.

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...mber=NAC375BEE




    Those are a few integrated amps that will have you enjoying your system for a while and even more if you tweak it and have great speaker placement....and who knows, some where down the road, you may add a turntable and have an outstanding two channel rig
    Last edited by frenchmon; 07-24-2011 at 01:33 AM.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MF XRAY v8 /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/ Creek OBH MK 2/Canton Vento 830.2

  15. #15
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    I do second the Nuforce idea and think Frenchmon for this idea as I had forgotten that Nuforce makes an integrated amp based on my preamp it is called the IA7 and while being rated a modest 50 watts per channel RMS has a peak power rating of close to 300 watts so the headroom is there to certainly drive most speakers to good sound levels. If interested there are several tests online that give it a good review and they will say themselves that the IA7 will drive almost any speaker to higher sound levels than one should expect almost any integrated to do and with a sound quality that is as good as any product near its price range. I have not heard one of these for myself I am quoting the reviewers but it is built after the p-8 preamp which I do have extensive knowledge and time listening to and I love mine. It has everything I could ask out of a preamp in a package you could fit in a mini system.

    yamaha htr5560 receiver (HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Dynaudio audience 60 mains
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  16. #16
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeanderson10 View Post
    Hey guys, please help me out here since I have been having this dilemma on which to choose.

    I currently have the Bowers and Wilkins CM 5 (B&W). I am doing only a stereo 2 channel setup. So I am considering separates and am stuck between these choices.

    Emotiva (Either the 2 UPA-1 monoblocks, or one UPA-2 or one XPA-2, & most likely their usp-1 preamp)
    Anthem- (Their Integrated 225 model or the MC-20 amplifier with any pre-amp)
    Rotel- (The combo would be the RB-1562 with RC-1550)

    or is there any preamp/amp combo that would out-do any of the above 3 options for 1500-2000 ? (inclusive of both preamp and amp)

    I can't decide which of the above 3 would make the CM-5's sound the absolute best.

    People please please help out, thank you so much
    Here are a couple of eccentric recommendations for you, Mike. They will probably excel and certainly equal the options you mention.




    For power amps, I have two recommendations:
    • If you like a somewhat warm sound, full-bodied in the mid-range, and a bit "tube-like", I suggest a pair of Monarchy SM-70 Pros ... see HERE)


    • If you like a neutral, ultra-transparent sound, (at half the price), then the Class D Audio SDS-258 ... see HERE.


    For a preamp, a passive will work well with either of these amps provided you can keep you connectors under 6 feet in length. I suggest what I'm using myself, a Jolida JF50A which has input selection and remote volume and on/off ... see HERE.



    Otherwise for an active preamp, though I haven't heard it myself, the Emotiva USP-1 is very appealing.




    Among the options you mention, though, I'd be most tempted by the Anthem integrated.

  17. #17
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    If you are looking for a warmer sounding separate and don't care about the bling factor then take a look at www.avahifi.com and check out his forum Audio by Van Alstine on www.audiocircle.com

    http://ww.avahifi.com/index.php?opti...107&Itemid=209
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp, Pass X-1 Preamp
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Van Alstine Ultra Hybrid Tube Preamp and Ultra Hybrid Tube DAC
    Martin Logan Original Dynamo Sub
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  18. #18
    RGA
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    As posted on audioasylum

    "The dealer here carries both Anthem and Rotel - The Rotel stuff is much better IME - The new Rotel stuff from the RC 1082 preamp on sounds better than Bryston as well and for 1/2 to 1/4 the price it's a no brainer.

    I can't speak to Emotiva because I have not heard it - but other forums seem to like them but research the reliability as it seems to be an issue.

    You can probably do better than Rotel as well. But Anthem isn't the same company anymore - they used to make some nice tube amps - one I almost bought but their SS amps I dunno. I am not generally a solid state guy though to be honest - I prefer a SS that sounds fuller and captures tone better.

    I'd personally look at a used Sugden A21a which you would likely get for $1500. I would look up Heed Audio and see what they have in your price range if anything. Not many good solid state amps and all the good ones are of the low power variety but they'll be more than enough power for your B&Ws. Dealer here also carries B&W. Classe is not too bad but expensive. Sim Audio is also pretty good - they have an integrated for around $1500 and I would consider that over Rotel. I liked YBA with B&W - YBA makes a sister line called Audio Refinement and they had an integrated called the "Complete" which was $1500. I don't know if they still do. A used YBA Integre DT would be a nice amp.

    I'd try to go with a good tube integrated if can - there are many out there and contrary to popular belief B&W does not need lots of watts, they need a quality amplifier.

    Personally in your budget range I would look at the Mystere Ia11 and the Rogue Audio Cronus (55 watts) $1900 Or Magnum (90WPC $2195). The dealer here runs Mystere with Dynaudio (arguably harder to drive than B&W) and Wilson was using LAMM tube amps in one room and Rogue Audio in the other. The Sophia is way harder to drive than your speakers and Rogue was pushing out tremendous volume levels with tight control of everything. Rogue is ridiculously low priced for what you get and it isn't made in China either. Both have integrates under $2k and they have reasonably price separates though combined may head up to $2400. And there are many others - Grant Fidelity offers an insane tube amplifier under $2k that does almost everything. It has a built in DAC, runs as a tube headphone amp, has lots of power, has a phono stage, remote control

    Grant Fidelity's W30 is slightly over budget but they have numerous sales that drop the price a few hundred bucks - it has preins and preouts as well so it can be run as preamp or power amp for upgrading which makes it an upgrade dream. http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Tube-Integrated/

    And if you're afraid of biasing a tube amp or you don't want to bother with such things as you want plug and play well Mystere does all that for you - with a full auto-bias http://www.mystere-usa.com/index.php...=89&Itemid=165

    Here's the Rogue Cronus review - the build quality is impeccable on these tube amps mentioned as well. You actually feel like your getting something of quality unlike the SS amps with pathetic plastic molded buttons and cheesy displays. These things clock in at 50lbs of steel and real transformers - you know some actual parts that cost something to make.

    Here's Rogue Audio Cronus review. All of them will easily drive B&W http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/rogue5/cronus.html

    Note: My comments about Anthem - IME they were much better when they were owned by Sonic Frontiers - Look at a used Anthem Amp-1 if you want a decent sounding Anthem on the cheap. Now they're expensive receivers with a token nod to two channel audio.

    A sign of a company not interested in music reproduction is one that sells home theater speakers and home theater receivers as their main business. None of them sound any good.

  19. #19
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    I can vouch for the Monarchy amps. They are built really well, pack some punch, and are quite clean. At the retail price they are a steal. If you can find one used it would be a no-brainer.

    There are many pre-amps that you can mate. I would try looking at a tube pre - this wlll allow you to tweak/tune to your taste by swapping out the tubes used. A pair of small signal tubes might run you $40. Check out Antique Sound Labs.

    You can get the Monarchy amps and ASL pre within your budget and make those speakers really sing!

    Steve
    Source: Musical Fidelity A5CD
    Pre: Stevens & Billington TVC
    Power: Heathkit W4; Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB splitter, '55 Sylvania 6SN7GTA driver, Russian 6P3SE outputs
    Speakers: Reference 3A Veena
    Interconnect: Tara Labs RSC Air 1
    Speaker Cable: Tara Labs RSC Prime 1000
    Power Cables: Furutech 314 with Oyaide 079 connectors
    Rack: Rack of Silence
    Room: well treated with panel absorbers

  20. #20
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    these all sound like viable options as I looked at Rogue audio preamps myself before purchasing my Nuforce and they seem to be make a good product and their integrated amps seem to get good press.

    yamaha htr5560 receiver (HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Dynaudio audience 60 mains
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  21. #21
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....est-II-Magnum-

    this post was on audiogon. it is priced within your range and I think it might serve your B&W's well. check it out and for specs go to rogue audio's website to see the actual specs for this unit.

    yamaha htr5560 receiver (HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Dynaudio audience 60 mains
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  22. #22
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Wow Harley! That is an absolute bargan.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MF XRAY v8 /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/ Creek OBH MK 2/Canton Vento 830.2

  23. #23
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley .guy07 View Post
    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....est-II-Magnum-

    this post was on audiogon. it is priced within your range and I think it might serve your B&W's well. check it out and for specs go to rogue audio's website to see the actual specs for this unit.

    I want one too!
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp, Pass X-1 Preamp
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Van Alstine Ultra Hybrid Tube Preamp and Ultra Hybrid Tube DAC
    Martin Logan Original Dynamo Sub
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  24. #24
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    I found that unit while scanning around audiogon and in my experience B&W speakers fair better with neutral to warm SS or tube electronics like Rogue audio. Rotel, Adcom are among the better solid state I have heard with B&W, McIntosh seems to work for B&W even though I am not a fan of them with any other speakers I have heard and their price is high for what you get. Rogue audio seems to be a good product at a good price made in America that is tube and has enough warmth to tame the B&W but enough detail to also bring out the best in them. I would say that on paper and from what I have heard it would seem to be a perfect match.

    yamaha htr5560 receiver (HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Dynaudio audience 60 mains
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  25. #25
    audio enthusiast vlastoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeanderson10 View Post
    Hey guys, please help me out here since I have been having this dilemma on which to choose.

    I currently have the Bowers and Wilkins CM 5 (B&W). I am doing only a stereo 2 channel setup. So I am considering separates and am stuck between these choices.

    Emotiva (Either the 2 UPA-1 monoblocks, or one UPA-2 or one XPA-2, & most likely their usp-1 preamp)
    Anthem- (Their Integrated 225 model or the MC-20 amplifier with any pre-amp)
    Rotel- (The combo would be the RB-1562 with RC-1550)

    or is there any preamp/amp combo that would out-do any of the above 3 options for 1500-2000 ? (inclusive of both preamp and amp)

    I can't decide which of the above 3 would make the CM-5's sound the absolute best.

    People please please help out, thank you so much
    You own B&W CM 5, then it seems the Rotels might be a very good choice for you, raed also this thread!:

    Paradigm and NAD vs Rotel and B&W - AVS Forum
    prog metal

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