can I connect an amp to my receiver w/ tape out or another way?

[mhjmhj]

Hi folks.

I'm considering purchasing a used high-power amp of some sort to power a set of vintage AR-3A 4-Ohm speakers and some other sets of speakers in other rooms of my house different than the main HT room where my receiver is.

Is there a way to connect an old amp to my receiver? My current receiver (which I'll replace, hopefully in the summer of 2007) has a digital out and a tape out. I was guessing I could connect the amp to the tape out. Or is there another way to do it?

Many thanks!

[basite]

don't use the tape, tape is a fixed out, this means that it bypasses everything on your receiver (volume control, balance, tone control,...) so it's a constant output (same level), when you connect your amp to your tape out, it can do 2 things: 1 do nothing 2: constantly give the amps maximal output, your amp will clip, then your speakers will blow (read: semi-explode), and there is a possebility that it will break your receiver's tape out, maybe the entire preamp section...
so, the answer is definately a no, with a big n and a big o,
(no really, don't try it)

you need pre-outs on your receiver,
connect them to those. most of the mid end and high end receivers have those, check if you have those.
otherwise, you'll have to buy a new receiver first, or a preamp.

greetings,
Basite.

[mhjmhj]

maybe I'm confused about the difference between an amp and a preamp. Eveything I've been looking at on ebay is listed as an "amp", but has a volume control on it.

If the "amp" had a volume control would that work?

thanks!

[markw]

A pre-amp has source selection, tone controls., tape monitors, and all the goodies you're used to seeing on these things. The output of these needs to be fed to a power amp to be able to drive a speaker

This brings us to the power amp, which is just a "black box" with one pair of inputs and one set of speaker outputs. Some do have gain controls but they are the minority and, in many cases, sources may not have enough output to drive them to the extent of their abilities.

An integrated amp combines both of the above in one box.

While we're at it, a receiver is an integrated amp with a tuner in the same box.

Some receivers and integrated amps have the ability to separate the preamp section from the power amp, either by jumpers or other methods, therebuy allowing more powerful amps to be inserted into the circuit to replace, not augment, the internal power amp.

Also, keep in mind that a "tape out" is a zero gain output. i'e, whatever goes into the inputs is exactly what goes out of the tape monitor.

[mhjmhj]

Also, keep in mind that a "tape out" is a zero gain output. i'e, whatever goes into the inputs is exactly what goes out of the tape monitor.

OK, thanks. What I've been looking at are "integrated amps". With the quote above in mind, it seems like I could run a pair of RCA cables form my receiver, to the phono input of the integrated amp and that would work fine, right?


Also, from the integrated amp, I'd like my signal out to go to a Niles speaker selector with volume control to power various speakers hooked up throughout my house: 1 set being the 4-ohm AR-3a's, the other sets would be 8-ohm, nothing fancy speakers. That would be ok, right (I hope - just as long as I get an integrated amp that can handle 4 ohm speakers and have lots of wpc)?

[basite]

what amp are you looking at? and use any input on the int amp, exept the phono, if you use the tape out on the receiver, i'd suggest you'd use the tape in on the int amp.

Peace,
Basite.

[mhjmhj]

what amp are you looking at? and use any input on the int amp, exept the phono, if you use the tape out on the receiver, i'd suggest you'd use the tape in on the int amp.

Peace,
Basite.

Not really looking at any amp in particular, I'm just researching my options on here (and the Steve Hoffman audio forum). My thoughts were high power and rated to 4-ohms. I admit that impedence confuses me.


And thanks for the tip on using the "tape in".

[Carl Reid]

Just one quick question:

What do you currently have hooked up to the receiver? Cuz if you only have a few components, then you could just hook them up directly to the Integrated Amp and sell the receiver....

[markw]

OK, thanks. What I've been looking at are "integrated amps". With the quote above in mind, it seems like I could run a pair of RCA cables form my receiver, to the phono input of the integrated amp and that would work fine, right?


Also, from the integrated amp, I'd like my signal out to go to a Niles speaker selector with volume control to power various speakers hooked up throughout my house: 1 set being the 4-ohm AR-3a's, the other sets would be 8-ohm, nothing fancy speakers. That would be ok, right (I hope - just as long as I get an integrated amp that can handle 4 ohm speakers and have lots of wpc)?

You NEVER want to use a phono input for anything but a magnetic phono cartridge. You'll overdrive it and it applies an inverse RIAA curve to whatever is fed into it. IOW, it'll sound like drek and possibly damage the preamp.

You can use any other "line level" inputs such as tuner, tape in, aux but forget about the phono input.

Be careful about the speaker selectors. Remember, the AR is a power hungry 4 ohm load and the rest are of a higher impedance and, most likely, much more sensitive.. Dunno how that would work out.

My recommendations are to give the AR's their own amp and leave it at that.

[mhjmhj]

You NEVER

My recommendations are to give the AR's their own amp and leave it at that.

good idea! what kind of power should I look for?

[markw]

If I were you I'd be looking at something around 120 watts or so max. Perhaps with a soft clipping circuit to tame clipping, like a NAD 317 or a more current model.

Remember, these speakers were madre in a different time with lower power amps the norm and a different type of music in mind The deep, almost subsonic bass we take for granted today was unheard of in the days these dinosaurs roamed the earth. These weren't made for today's music and moreso for HT.

Caution is advised if you want to keep 'em running, particularly the tweeters.

[royphil345]

An integrated amp hooked up to the tape outs should work fine.

You talked about hooking up several pairs of speakers which would require a speaker selector box with circuitry to keep the resistance up. Hooking up two speakers in parallel cuts the resistance load in half which would get hairy with 4 ohm speakers or more than two pairs of any speaker. If you find an integrated with A and B speaker outputs that can be used simultaneously with 4 ohm speakers... You could probably get away with hooking the 4ohm speakers up to one output and a a couple 8ohm pairs to the other.

[Daedilus]

you're getting into some tricky territory here for a novice AV guy, speakers with different impedance and multi amp systems are going to require you to know what you are doing at least to some degree.. better break out a book on Ohms Law before you get into this venutre...

the *Proper* way to go about what you are trying to do here is a DSP unit with dedicated outputs to multiple amps. it's also the more expensive way.

a trick you could use is to buy a modern DTS receiver, i'll use a Denon 1906 or higheer as an example, because im familier with them.

first you would set the receiver up to do DTS sound, then run your tos link into the appropriate input. At this point you would use your preamp level 7.1 output to run front mains out to your power amp for your AR's.

you could then use the Denon to drive your center and surrounds with no mains attached... OR...

you could loop the outputs from your 7.1 rears back into the denons EXT IN 7.1 front positions, throw the amp into stereo mode and get a full 100 watts per channel out to your rears hooked up through your front A speakers terminal. ~ wow, yeah?

But that still leaves you missing a center channel, so you would need a third amp at this point, to which you would hook your 7.1 outputs center to it..

naturally the sub would also hook to your denons 7.1 output..

However, as i said, this is a fairly complicated situation. Your fast easy solution would simply be to run the denon in DTS mode, with it running rears, center and sub out. and front out to the power amp, this will allow you to use the receivers audio and video switching, while powereing your rears and center, and give you full system volume across all speakers from the Denon...

Again i used Denon as an example, but any DTS receiver with Tos link in and 5.1 or higher variable preamp output will work for the easier off my 2 possibilites, while you would need to add center channel amp and EXT IN 5.1 or higher inputs for the more complicated of the 2.

Hope that was confusing enough... i need a beer....