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  1. #26
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc View Post
    Wow, Feanor. That is a beautiful piece of gear.
    Hi, Kex, good to hear from you; I think it's been too long.

    Yeah, FedEx is reporting that it's on its way, and I'm really looking forward to it. For a while it's been a kind of dream of mine to own a Pass Labs amp -- I hope I'm not disappointed but there have been many endorsements.

  2. #27
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Bill, I think that you will appreciate the extra slam that the 150.5 has because of its extra power, especially with Classical music. The 0.5 series is supposed to be a little more tube like with a sweeter midrange, better detail but a little less transparency than the older X150.
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  3. #28
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    Bill, I think that you will appreciate the extra slam that the 150.5 has because of its extra power, especially with Classical music. The 0.5 series is supposed to be a little more tube like with a sweeter midrange, better detail but a little less transparency than the older X150.
    I would hate to loose transparency! But things are relative: if the 150.5 is even as good as the SDS then it will be very good indeed.

    Speaking of slam, adding an active preamp, the ARC LS9, to my system as really kicked up the dynamics. Indeed, I listened to Eiji Oue & Minnesota Symphony's version of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, (Reference Recording RR-70) last night: this was the first time through the LS9 and the impact of bass drum and tympany was thrilling -- another hard act to follow but my expectations are high.

  4. #29
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Feanor, seeing that the Pass has a much different sound signature than the ARC preamp, you may find some very good synergy!
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  5. #30
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Seeing that I have never been around a Audio Research solid state Preamp I have no clue how well they will work together but I like my Nuforce with the Pass but I am willing to bet the Nuforce P8 and ARC ls9 are very different from each other.

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  6. #31
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    Feanor, seeing that the Pass has a much different sound signature than the ARC preamp, you may find some very good synergy!
    So, frenchmon, how would you typify the sound of the ARC LS9? One must bear in mind that the LS9 will sound a bit different than ARC tube models.

    Among ARC preamps I have only ever heard the LS9 and, of course, have yet to hear the Pass 150.5. Further, I've never heard my current amp, (the CDA SDS), with anything else than a passive preamp, so it's hard for me to compare. But at this point I'll say that the LS9 seems very transparent and very dynamic. Also bass seems tighter and highs maybe just a little brighter. These latter characteristics might be explained entirely in terms of the LS9 being active rather than passive.

  7. #32
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley .guy07 View Post
    Seeing that I have never been around a Audio Research solid state Preamp I have no clue how well they will work together but I like my Nuforce with the Pass but I am willing to bet the Nuforce P8 and ARC ls9 are very different from each other.
    Sound differences are a pretty save bet. But would you care to speculate on the differences between the Nuforce P8 and ARC LS9 might be?

    Both are solid state preamps; the Nuforce P8 is newer; the P8 has an potentiometer volume control vs. the LS9'S relay-controlled resistor ladder; the P8 is single-end front to back while the LS9 is fully balanced. Of course these factors don't say much about the sound.

    On the face of it, I'm glad the LS9's balanced output because this is optimal for the 150.5, as it is for my still-current Class D Audio SDS-258.

  8. #33
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    So, frenchmon, how would you typify the sound of the ARC LS9? One must bear in mind that the LS9 will sound a bit different than ARC tube models.

    Among ARC preamps I have only ever heard the LS9 and, of course, have yet to hear the Pass 150.5. Further, I've never heard my current amp, (the CDA SDS), with anything else than a passive preamp, so it's hard for me to compare. But at this point I'll say that the LS9 seems very transparent and very dynamic. Also bass seems tighter and highs maybe just a little brighter. These latter characteristics might be explained entirely in terms of the LS9 being active rather than passive.
    Hi Feanor.

    The ARC seems to be more lively in presentation. Nothing boring about ARC. The Pass is more neutral and can be said to be on the warm side of things. The contrast in Both brands are dynamic....but the contrast in the two different sound temperatures( warm...lively)may make for a great synergy between the two.
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  9. #34
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    Hi Feanor.

    The ARC seems to be more lively in presentation. Nothing boring about ARC. The Pass is more neutral and can be said to be on the warm side of things. The contrast in Both brands are dynamic....but the contrast in the two different sound temperatures( warm...lively)may make for a great synergy between the two.
    That's good info! The LS9 does seem lively to me. I'm hoping it will work well as a comb.

  10. #35
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    You pretty much explain it right Feanor except that the Nuforce uses a digitally controlled switched attenuator for the volume control which to my knowledge is how they do all of their volume controls on their preamps.

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  11. #36
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Bill, I have a very lively preamp and DAC. They really pair well with the Pass. I find the Pass to have a more laid back presentation than my A21 and the Pass does well with a lively preamp. With the A21 I had to tone things down with tube rolling vintage 1950's tubes into my system. Since I got the X250 I was able to put the stock tubes back into my Van Alstine Preamp.

    I think that the ARC will match well with the X150.5. No worries man!
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  12. #37
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Raven what tubes you got in the preamp?

    Feanor...of course the best synergy you will possibly get would be from the matching preamp made for your amp, that way you get the sound the engineer intended from his designs, you would hear Pass Labs in all its glory as Peabody is hearing right now and as I am hearing with my Vincent....but out side of that....contrasting sounds from two different brand names normally will give that great synergy one seeks. The contrasting components usually play off each others weaknesses rather than being over the top from having the same strong attributes and the same weaknesses. You should enjoy a great musical presentation.
    Last edited by frenchmon; 10-25-2013 at 02:45 AM.
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  13. #38
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Frenchmon, I am using Electro-Harmonix 6CG7's in my preamp, they are the tubes that it came with. I was using NOS 1950's Raytheon Black Plates and 1950's Sylvania Black plates in my DAC. The EH's have great air, sound stage and transparency but were too bright with the A21. They sound great with the X250. I am using NOS RCA Clear tops in my DAC. I can't decide if I like the RCA Clear tops, NOS RCA Black Plates or my 1950's Tung Sol Black Plates in my DAC. The EH's in my preamp solved the treble problem with the X250. I was beginning to think that there was something wrong with the Pass as treble was pushed way back and had little air about it. The EH's fixed the problem, although I still think the A21 has better treble, more natural sounding.
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  14. #39
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Some people, including Pass Labs owners, might not have see this very interesting article about the design of the X.5 and XA.5 amps ...

    Leaving Class A by Nelson Pass of Pass Labs

    (The article is also available on the Pass Labs website.)

  15. #40
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    After reading the article I wonder if that lack of distortion is what Blackraven may be having some issue with when trying to adjust from the A21. After hearing and using many amps I find the Pass treble natural and easy to listen to. The treble varies from recording to recording. I can understand other amps maybe being brighter or more forward in the treble area but I find treble on the X250 to be very good. I also find myself wanting to listen to more piano as the Pass is able to convey a great sense of melody and the notes ring beautifully.

    Blackraven when using the A21 you had to roll in warmer tubes and insert the resistors into the 1.6's, I'm just not sure if the A21 should be your reference for ideal treble. Distortion, as mentioned earlier doesn't always have to sound like the clipping kind, it can also be edgy, or lack of definition or other nasties. I also think your high end will improve a great deal with better cables.

    Feanor I was checking out your ARC preamp, interesting yours stays on all the time like the XP10. I'll post this link in case any one else wants to check it out. ARCDB - LS9

  16. #41
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Mr P, I wasn't using the resistors and tube rolling to contain brightness as much as sibilant sound on S's and T's. It is definitely due to my preamp and certain types of music that I listen too. I was able to audition the older FET Valve preamp and just 2 days ago the Van Alstine new T-9 tube preamp in my system and they have much less sibilant sound. I still have a sibilant issue with the Pass but it is a little better. I just about eliminated it today with rolling in some vintage Tung Sol Grey Plates in my DAC with just a little trade off in other area's of sound as there always is when rolling tubes. I find that the Pass sounds better with a wider variety of tube combo's than the A21. The A21 still has a little crisper and detailed sound on acoustic guitar though. The Pass and A21 have different characters and strengths and weaknesses. It's just that the Pass has more strengths and is more refined. The A21 can't match its air, SS and transparency as well as low end punch and completely black background. The Pass is grain free and also sounds fuller at low volumes.
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  17. #42
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    Feanor I was checking out your ARC preamp, interesting yours stays on all the time like the XP10. I'll post this link in case any one else wants to check it out. ARCDB - LS9
    To be sure, treble varies from recording to recording. Some recordings sound just fine with my class D amp, others are ghastly. I'll emphasis that for a long while I've preferred one amp with certain recordings and a different amp with others. I decided to pull out the stops and go for the Pass X150.5 in the expectation that it will have fewer compromises than practically any other option.

    ARCDB.ws is a great site, thanks. I consulted it before deciding to go for the Audio Research LS9 preamp.

    Incidentally I'm very pleased with the LS9. To my ear and relative to other preamps I've had including most recently to the Jolida passive, it is very dynamic while not giving up any transparency nor injecting any grain or edginess. But neither does it injects no warmth nor tubey ambience effects either which some people enjoy. Presently I have no reason to doubt that it will work well with the Pass X150.5.

    A large part of my reason for going with the LS9 was my desire to get back to a balanced preamp. And not the least reason for choosing the LS9 specifically was price, e.g. the tubed ARC LS15, (which I might have considered otherwise), go for almost twice the price.

  18. #43
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    The Pass X150.5 arrived today safe & sound. I hooked it up, turned it on and gave it about an hour and a bit to warm up. It sounds great.

    Initial impressions vs. the Class D Audio SDS-258 except where noted ...

    • Highs are extended by lack the brightness of the SDS, (hurrah for that!)
    • Resolution, transparency, air, and palpability are all at least as good
    • Sound stage is remarkably expanded, especially depth & height
    • Bass is on a par, i.e. lean & precise
    • The midrange and high bass is a tad warmer or, maybe more accurately, fuller. This is rather like my former Monarch SM-70 Pro's
    • There is an delightful naturalness to the sound -- better than the SDS but much better than the Forte Model 5 which sounded kinda weird.


    At levels I was playing the heatsinks are warm but not really hot, and the current meter is only a couple of degrees higher than idle.

    Read the Nelson Pass article I referenced about, I notice that he says the X.5 and XA.5 amps run up to about the first watt in class A single-end mode, (push-pull after that). This means for that the first watt the amp generates mainly euphonic 2nd order distortion, (above that mainly 3rd order which isn't too hard on the ears either).

  19. #44
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    Glad you like it. Make a mental note, it should be even better tomorrow.

  20. #45
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Glad to hear that you like the amp. Hopefully it is a keeper and the last amp you own.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
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  21. #46
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    congrats!
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  22. #47
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    • Highs are extended by lack the brightness of the SDS, (hurrah for that!)
    • Resolution, transparency, air, and palpability are all at least as good
    • Sound stage is remarkably expanded, especially depth & height
    • Bass is on a par, i.e. lean & precise
    • The midrange and high bass is a tad warmer or, maybe more accurately, fuller. This is rather like my former Monarch SM-70 Pro's
    • There is an delightful naturalness to the sound -- better than the SDS but much better than the Forte Model 5 which sounded kinda weird.
    Further impressions. I've been listening for a few more hours and have some observations.

    • The most common comment among reviewers and you Pass Labs owners here is, (in my words), the clarity, separation and tangible quality, i.e. palpability, of voices & instruments in the soundstage -- I totally agree with these appraisals. The 150.5 far exceeds other amps I've owned in this respect. If I had to choose a single quality that I seek in an amp, this would be it.
    • The 150.5 isn't especially warm, (though it doesn't have the top treble brightness of my class D amp). If you have a bright recording, and if you have neutral upstream components as I do, the sound will be bright. I'm OK with this personally but if you're a warmth lover, then you might want to look elsewhere the an the Pass Labs or get a warmer tube preamp.

  23. #48
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    It is interesting about you finding the amp not especially warm. From the reviews that I have read about the X0.5 series is that they lean on the warmer side as opposed to the older X series amps. But it probably has more to do with your pre, DAC, and music recording.

    Glad to hear that you like the amp though. How do you like the detail and resolution? I find that my A21 had a crisper sound on strings and horns. Strings sound more natural on the A21, but the Pass sounds smoother and more liquid.

    Congrats again!
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
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  24. #49
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    It is interesting about you finding the amp not especially warm. From the reviews that I have read about the X0.5 series is that they lean on the warmer side as opposed to the older X series amps. But it probably has more to do with your pre, DAC, and music recording.

    Glad to hear that you like the amp though. How do you like the detail and resolution? I find that my A21 had a crisper sound on strings and horns. Strings sound more natural on the A21, but the Pass sounds smoother and more liquid.

    Congrats again!
    Thanks, I'm enjoying the X150.5. It's a little warmer than the SDS-258 but that's not the dominant characteristic. It's true that may DAC and preamp are on the cool side; your AVA would be warmer most likely.

    I don't have your basis of comparison with the A21 but I find the X150.5's string sound very natural, as are instruments in general. Do you suppose it could be preamp/amp synergy?

  25. #50
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Thanks, I'm enjoying the X150.5. It's a little warmer than the SDS-258 but that's not the dominant characteristic. It's true that may DAC and preamp are on the cool side; your AVA would be warmer most likely.
    I'm glad you're enjoying the ARC/Pass combo (I thought that an SP-6 paired well with a Stasis 3 when I put them together in '81). Do give both plenty of warmup time for optimum results. And you might consider aftermarket power cords to ice the cake. What they can do is provide that last ounce of subtle detail.

    It seems that you've reached a new tier in natural sound reproduction that classical is all about. The Maggies are certainly capable of stepping up to the plate. Now just sit back and enjoy your tunes.

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