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  1. #1
    Deathcore for life Freewillisdead112's Avatar
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    Budget preamp shopping!

    Hi, everyone!

    I am thinking about buying a preamp for the tamp20 i am ordering!

    Anyone know of any good pre's out there from the past that still look nice, black/silver, and sell for a simple price. I would like one that has a replaceable cable if possible.

    Thanks guys!

  2. #2
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Most older (vintage) preamps do not have a detachable power cord.

    What is your budget?

    Do you want/need tone controls?
    If you do, then something like an Adcom GFP-555 is an ideal choice. It also fits your cosmetic requirements.

    Most of the preamps I would recommend have no tone controls.

    The ones that come to mind are

    Audio Research
    Conrad Johnson
    Krell
    Audible Illusions

    All of the above are considered to be high end preamps. They can be had for less than a grand.

    Check Audiogon for used preamps. If you are on a restricted budget the already mentioned Adcom is probably your best bet.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  3. #3
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
    Hi, everyone!

    I am thinking about buying a preamp for the tamp20 i am ordering!

    Anyone know of any good pre's out there from the past that still look nice, black/silver, and sell for a simple price. I would like one that has a replaceable cable if possible.

    Thanks guys!
    I'm a fan of the Adcom GFP-555 and would also add the Adcom SLC-505 and Creek OBH-12.


  4. #4
    Deathcore for life Freewillisdead112's Avatar
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    Id like to stay around $500. Tone would be cool, not needed though. It doesnt need to be vintage, just used would be better cost and performance wise. I have heard great things about adcom.

    To sum things up....Don't care about phono, tone is a yes/no, black would be perfered, Something thats not quite entry level but not high end, as $500 won't really get me to far high end wise.

    Would It be cheaper to look into integrated amp's with preouts?

    I have heard and read great things about the t-amp I am ordering and I just dont think I can live with a volume knob and one input, so I figure add a decent preamp with good interconnects and it should work out great!

    Thanks!

  5. #5
    Deathcore for life Freewillisdead112's Avatar
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    If I could afford a krell I would jump in a heart beat!

  6. #6
    Deathcore for life Freewillisdead112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    I'm a fan of the Adcom GFP-555 and would also add the Adcom SLC-505 and Creek OBH-12.

    The 555 has a built-in power cord. I was checking them out on ebay, ones sitting for $75 bucks!

    How does a passive work, I have never messed with one. The 505 is sitting at $45 with no bids right now.

    That creed seems a little steep for $600 bucks. Is it worth it?

  7. #7
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    I have seen the Audible Illusions for around $600. I've also seen Krell KRS preamps for about $800. Both of those were on Audiogon. Bear in mind, none of these have any tone controls except the Adcom.

    Although the Creek is a preamp, it's rather limited in controls. IE: No balance control. No tape monitor. And, last but not least, no phono stage. Of course if you have no TT that's not important.

    The Audible Illusions, Krell, Conrad Johnson and Audio Research all sound significantly better than the Adcom or Creek. If I were on a budget and wanted SS, I'd go for the Audible Illusions. Otherwise it would be Krell for SS. Choosing between Audio Research and Conrad Johnson (both tubed) is largely a matter of personal taste.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  8. #8
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
    The 555 has a built-in power cord. I was checking them out on ebay, ones sitting for $75 bucks!

    How does a passive work, I have never messed with one. The 505 is sitting at $45 with no bids right now.

    That creed seems a little steep for $600 bucks. Is it worth it?
    Of the ones I've mentioned the Krell and Audible Illusions have an IEC connector to allow power cord changes. The Audible and Krell also have separate (a very good thing) power supplies.

    A passive is nothing more than a switchbox with a volume and (maybe) a balance control. It may not have an AC connector unless it has some kind of output buffers (most don't).

    For $600 I'd buy an Audible Illusions over the Creek any day the Sun comes up in the East.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  9. #9
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
    The 555 has a built-in power cord. I was checking them out on ebay, ones sitting for $75 bucks!

    How does a passive work, I have never messed with one. The 505 is sitting at $45 with no bids right now.

    That creed seems a little steep for $600 bucks. Is it worth it?
    I saw the Creek for $225 on Audiogon before I mentioned it. There's a purity advantage with the passive preamps, as long as they have a quality volume pot. I have owned a GFP-555, a GFP-565 and an SLC-505. My favorite was the GFP-565 by a considerable margin, but the cost difference above the GFP-555 is usually quite a bit. If you can afford options like Audio Research and Conrad-Johnson, I'd say the Adcom/Creek discussion is a moot point, though.

  10. #10
    Deathcore for life Freewillisdead112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    I have seen the Audible Illusions for around $600. I've also seen Krell KRS preamps for about $800. Both of those were on Audiogon. Bear in mind, none of these have any tone controls except the Adcom.

    Although the Creek is a preamp, it's rather limited in controls. IE: No balance control. No tape monitor. And, last but not least, no phono stage. Of course if you have no TT that's not important.

    The Audible Illusions, Krell, Conrad Johnson and Audio Research all sound significantly better than the Adcom or Creek. If I were on a budget and wanted SS, I'd go for the Audible Illusions. Otherwise it would be Krell for SS. Choosing between Audio Research and Conrad Johnson (both tubed) is largely a matter of personal taste.
    Huh, cool. Where would I find this Audible Illusions at? I did a google search with no luck. Is there older krells that can be had a little cheaper?

  11. #11
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    For the $500 the OP mentioned a GFP-565 is a very good option. It's definitely the best preamp Adcom ever made. However I've seen the Audible Illusions for the same price. I think it's a little bit better.

    Plus it has:
    Replaceable power cord
    Separate power supply

    Freewillisdead112:
    The gear I've described is available on Audiogon. The brands and models come under the high end category. Audiogon specializes in high and and near high end gear. The classifieds are an audio wish book.
    www.audiogon.com
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  12. #12
    Deathcore for life Freewillisdead112's Avatar
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    Huh, Is the Audible Illusions a tube? Cuz thats all they have on the gon list. I'll check out the adcom and see what i find!

  13. #13
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Yes it is tubed. So are the Conrad Johnson and Audio Research. My SP-9 is a hybrid with a tubed input and phono stage and FET output. The CJ is tubes from start to finish. Of the preamps I've mentioned the CJ has more of a signature tube sound than the others. CJ gear has sometimes been called "Golden" sounding. I suppose that goes along with the front panel color.

    The preamps I've mentioned all have a couple of things in common.
    1. No tone controls.
    2. No remote.
    3. Superior sound.

    They are the kind of gear that when paired with appropriate stuff need no tone controls or equalizer.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  14. #14
    Deathcore for life Freewillisdead112's Avatar
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    Anyone had any good luck with the emotiva preamp? I have read some nice things about it price wise.

  15. #15
    Deathcore for life Freewillisdead112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Yes it is tubed. So are the Conrad Johnson and Audio Research. My SP-9 is a hybrid with a tubed input and phono stage and FET output. The CJ is tubes from start to finish. Of the preamps I've mentioned the CJ has more of a signature tube sound than the others. CJ gear has sometimes been called "Golden" sounding. I suppose that goes along with the front panel color.

    The preamps I've mentioned all have a couple of things in common.
    1. No tone controls.
    2. No remote.
    3. Superior sound.

    They are the kind of gear that when paired with appropriate stuff need no tone controls or equalizer.
    I have been wanting to try tube, and alot of people have had great results with tubes and t-amps. Would tubes help tone down bright music, as I am a glorified metal head and the music is just so bright. I would figure without tone control things would be more mellow aye? But also more pure!

    Now what the heck am I gunna do about CDP? If i am spending 700-800 for amp and pre whats a realistic spending on a cdp? Would it be smart to pick up the oppo dvd and a cheap dac or just a better cd player? I have-ith the slightest clue!

  16. #16
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Mr. Peabody and frenchmon both have very good things to say about the Emotive ERCD-1 CDP. Their findings are good enough to seriously consider one
    In most cases tubes will ameliorate that high frequency glare. However, in many cases it's also exacerbated by inexpensive CDP's in the first place. In other words, a good CDP may get rid of the HF glare.
    A good tube preamp can still make the overall sound better even if you have a CDP that doesn't enhance glare.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  17. #17
    Deathcore for life Freewillisdead112's Avatar
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    I was going to actually look into the emo. I read alot of great things, and the price and look is just right! If I was to get that I would love to get the pre if it was any good just for the match. But if its not a good ol item I will take a look at that Audible and adcom.

    I was going to put some money into the WDHD media player ($200) to play my mp3 and flac files and maybe a few vids. I like that over the oppo as it plays flac files. I still will want to add a better dvd player but nothing over the top one day, as my $60 sony is not up really to par for anything.

    I am building full range speakers for this setup so I am guessing the tube and t-amp mix would sound quite sweet. As the t-amp is a married match and tube + full ranges = sweet!

  18. #18
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    The ERC-1 is a very good CD player. If the Emo preamp has the same price to performance ratio you should try it, $399.00. They will give you a 30 day return window and it has very cool features including a built in subwoofer crossover with both high/low cutoff and a phono stage. The ERC-1 is fast and spreads the sound stage out which would help with Metal. Or, any music but I think it does good for Rock. The highs are there but shouldn't be a problem with equally as good gear. The ERC-1 performs way better than it's price would suggest, that's why I think the USP-1 might be a good option. You could get both and be slightly over $800.00 with shipping.

    If you want to replace your DVD just get a Blu-ray player. Prices have dropped, for instance, you can buy a Panasonic dmp-80 for under $160.00. This is a premium player for the price of entry level.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I would take a look at some used Van Alstine preamps that come with a 1yr warranty and are factory inspected.

    http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/used/used.htm
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  20. #20
    Deathcore for life Freewillisdead112's Avatar
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    interesting! I def like the idea of having the matching pre and cdp. Mr Peabody, do you use a DAC with your cdp?

    It would be amazing to make this whole system under $2000, but within a long span of time as thats a hunk of change for me! First comes the t-amp then on goes the show! The open baffle FR speakers I am building are going to cost way under $300! There going to be sweet when I am done. I did buy those Insignia bookshelfs to house the driver while I build the cabs. They sure don't sound bad for $60!

    Going to take me about 6 months to build the cabs with the amount of spare time i have so they came warm up in the cabs in the mean time!

  21. #21
    Deathcore for life Freewillisdead112's Avatar
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    I have not bought a HDTV yet so I don't think a Bluray is in order. Do they even have composite outs anymore?

  22. #22
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    Yes, the Blu-ray should work with your old TV until you can get HD. They typically offer an array of video outputs and you can set the resolution lower. I haven't looked at the dmp-80 so not sure exactly what's on the back.

    I do not use a DAC with the ERC-1, it sounds great as is. I think Atom was going to put all the ERC info into a blog, you might try looking on the home page or look for threads in the "digital domain" containing words like ERC, Peabody, or Frenchmon. I also, posted a review on www.emotiva.com I used the name krellion. I believe the title is "ERC-1 scrutinized" They put their reviews under the "forums" link. Emo is good stuff though. The player has detachable cord, an aluminum remote and it's built rock solid.

    I was going to comment on the CJ gear. My current gear is the only amps I've heard from CJ, although the system has excellent midrange it does not have the stereotypical rolled off highs or bloated bass some associate with the "glowing" tube sound. In fact, I was listen to some Rush LP's at high volume this afternoon and was pretty proud of the way my system presented Getty's bass lines. They were presented detailed and clear. I can't speak for the older preamps and there are some good buys usually on Audiogon, like
    PV10's for under $500.00.

  23. #23
    Deathcore for life Freewillisdead112's Avatar
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    I'll def check that out!

    I have always been interested with tube, but the only tube that was avail was mcintosh, and i don't quite have the pocket book for that! Craigslist around my town is always fisher 15's and sony HTIB systems. Hardly anything worth picking up!

    There is a pair of carver electrostats for $300 that look sweet!

  24. #24
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    First off, Carver's are not electrostatics. They are open baffle woofers with a ribbon tweeter. They sound very good but need enormous amounts of power, 250WPC minimum.

    Mr Peabody has reinforced my suggestion about CJ or ARC etc. and looking on Audiogon. you may have to be patient but you will be able to get what you want.

    Also, the longer you wait for what you want the more money you can save toward whatever it is.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  25. #25
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
    I have not bought a HDTV yet so I don't think a Bluray is in order. Do they even have composite outs anymore?
    You and your aspirations regarding your system and gear in general have changed quite a bit. From TRS Mach 1's to your own design FR open baffle speakers is quite a change. It seems that we have helped create a monster. I know I'm happy about that. We need all the new blood we can attract to this, obsession. Just don't forget to pass the infection along whenever you get the opportunity. We all have to be typhoid Mary as far as good stereo equipment is concerned.

    Keep the spark going!!!!

    Yes the Oppo BD player has composite, S-Video and I think component video outputs. Check the Oppo site to make sure.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

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