Best Integrated or Pre/Power Amp Combo for Monitor Audio?

[Ajani]

OK, short of experiencing a miracle in an audition, I've got my heart set on Monitor Audio Speakers... I have 4 options and the size of my wallet (or VISA) will determine which pair I purchase at the time: RS6, RS8, GS20 or GS60. The RS6 and the GS20 are the best choices considering the size of my stereo room (15x12 with 15 ft ceilings)...

With all that in mind and a budget of absolute MAXIMUM $2K (I prefer new as used is hard to get in the Caribbean - most Audiogon sellers won't ship to me)... I'm looking for an integrated amp or Pre/Power Amp combo. I know I can use anywhere from about 30 watts up... So far I'm considering the following:

Musical Fidelity A1 $2K 30 watts
Creek Classic 5350SE $1.7K 85 watts
Parasound Halo P3/A23 $1.7K 125 watts
Simaudio Moon i1 $1.5K 50 watts
Naim Nait 5i $1.4K 50 watts

Any comments on these choices or other suggestions will be appreciated....

The only option I've been able to audition is Musical Fidelity (X-T100 not A1) and Monitor Audio GS20 (loved it), but the A1 is at the top of my price range, has no headphone amp and is at the bottom of my expected power requirement (though it should sound even sweeter than than the X-T100).

BTW, though not a requirement, a headphone amp would be a major plus! A phono amp is not required as I will never use it. I don't need many inputs either.

[audio amateur]

Is the purchase immanent?

[Ajani]

Is the purchase immanent?

lol... good question... well, immanent by my standards: next 4 - 8 weeks...

[audio amateur]

Oh... I thought you were going to wait for ages and rack up some cash for a 'decent' system.

I can't really recommend anything (but not because it's bad stuff). I've heard both the Monitor Audio's. The GS20 definitely had a 'high-end' feel to them. Bass was amazing, somehow though I felt the midrange was lacking in some way. I need to mention I heard them in less than ideal conditions. Heard the RS6's too but I didn't have much to compare them to at the time. As far as amps are concerned, I can't really recommend, either. I've heard MF and Naim on different stuff. I don't think you can go wrong with either, they are both respectable companies.
On a side note, why do you need a headphone out on the amp if you're going to use the Benchmark? (in all honesty i'd sell the headphone and splash more on the other stuff at this point )
Or how 'bout a power amp straight to the Benchmark, and the Benchmark right near your listening position so volume is not a problem?

[Ajani]

Oh... I thought you were going to wait for ages and rack up some cash for a 'decent' system.

I can't really recommend anything (but not because it's bad stuff). I've heard both the Monitor Audio's. The GS20 definitely had a 'high-end' feel to them. Bass was amazing, somehow though I felt the midrange was lacking in some way. I need to mention I heard them in less than ideal conditions. Heard the RS6's too but I didn't have much to compare them to at the time. As far as amps are concerned, I can't really recommend, either. I've heard MF and Naim on different stuff. I don't think you can go wrong with either, they are both respectable companies.
On a side note, why do you need a headphone out on the amp if you're going to use the Benchmark? (in all honesty i'd sell the headphone and splash more on the other stuff at this point )
Or how 'bout a power amp straight to the Benchmark, and the Benchmark right near your listening position so volume is not a problem?

I don't need a headphone amp, but it would be nice to have that extra bit of variety...

A power amp maybe my best bet, but most options are powerhouses, so I wonder if I might get better sound with a low powered integrated (such as the Musical Fidelity A1) than with a 250 watt monster (like the Parasound Halo A21)....

You really should try listening to the Monitor Audio GS20 on a Musical Fidelity Amp... the GS20/X-T100 had the sweetest mid-range I've heard... Such a shame they discontinued the X-T100 (I wouldn't need to ask for amp advice if it was available)...

Thanks for the input.... I originally planned to wait till I had a sick amount of money available to spend, but looking at just my headphone setup in my stereo room is getting depressing... I love the sound of it, but I miss having a nice tower combo (especially now that I realize that my stereo room is basically sound proof at my normal listening volumes!!!! So no complaints from the wife or neighbors)... So I may have to eat some humble pie and just get something enjoyable rather than waiting on 'high-end'....

[audio amateur]

Thanks for the input.... I originally planned to wait till I had a sick amount of money available to spend, but looking at just my headphone setup in my stereo room is getting depressing

haha, I told you! I knew you wouldn't be able to wait however long you said you wanted to wait

So I may have to eat some humble pie and just get something enjoyable rather than waiting on 'high-end'....

Well, GS20's aren't exactly Low-Fi, whichever way you look at it. I haven't heard of the X-T100 but if there's a newer version of it, or one that is based on it/same circuitry, why don't you go with that? Or with any MF for that matter, if you've heard the combo and liked it? What was the source?
Or simply try to find an X-T100? Better yet, a Trends 10.1 like I have for 150$ and save up for better later on

[Ajani]

haha, I told you! I knew you wouldn't be able to wait however long you said you wanted to wait

Well, GS20's aren't exactly Low-Fi, whichever way you look at it. I haven't heard of the X-T100 but if there's a newer version of it, or one that is based on it/same circuitry, why don't you go with that? Or with any MF for that matter, if you've heard the combo and liked it? What was the source?
Or simply try to find an X-T100? Better yet, a Trends 10.1 like I have for 150$ and save up for better later on

When I talk about humble pie, I was thinking more of the RS6 (the GS20 would be 'small room high end', IMO)...

MF ditched the X Series and so far have only released the lower powered A1 for more money... The X-T100 was 60 watts and $1.5K, while the A1 is 30 watts and $2K.... And while I was totally happy with the sound and volume level of the X-T100/GS20 combo in an 11x11 listening room (with a low ceiling), I'm not sure that the A1/GS20 or RS6 would give me that kind of quality and volume in a 15x12 room (with a high ceiling).

If I got a trends 10.1 then I could definitely get the GS20, but I don't think the Trends would have enough power to drive the 20's till I can get something better...

[audio amateur]

If I got a trends 10.1 then I could definitely get the GS20, but I don't think the Trends would have enough power to drive the 20's till I can get something better...

Depending on how loud you like your music, You should consider the Trends. My room is a little smaller, with low ceiling, but my 686's aren't the last word in efficiency, with 84dB/2.8v/m according to the manufacturer. However, at normal listening volumes, there's is no problem at all. I can even push them a little with no signs of clipping. I believe, with the efficiency of the 20's, despite your room dimensions, it will be even less of a problem. It's an amazing little amp. You can even configure it to work as a power amp. No remote though. Definitely consider it

[elapsed]

Hi Ajani, nice choice in speakers! However I don't think that Naim will be an ideal match for MA, personally I would be leaning towards MF. Any chance you can stretch your budget for an A5.5 integrated? This is an exceptional match for the MA Silver Series

Also you could swing Rotel separates within this budget, for instance Rotel RC-1082 pre-amp and RB-1080 poweramp (200Wpc)

cheers,
elapsed

[nightflier]

Have you considered Emotiva? Their RSP-2 preamp is quite a head turner with balanced out, various preamp outputs and lots of other features (including a headphone amp and MM phono, unfortunately). But you can pair that with their $299 UPA-2 amp and still have plenty left for speakers. Or if you want more power, they have a 500W powerhouse for just $799. I don't think you can buy that much power anywhere else for that price.

Another option is Vincent Audio. Their SV-226 integrated has some interesting specs but is a bit pricey for your budget. There's always NAD. They've stopped making poop-colored gear, and the new black gear looks very clean with very impressive specs.

But, if you're willing to spend that much, you should definitely check out PS Audio. Their amps should be a very good fit for the MA speakers, as those speakers can sound bright and etchy. By the way, PS Audio's Trio integrated amp is a 100/200 watt little monster that is stable down to 2 ohms. It also would pair well with the Benchmark's color and style. I just saw that AudioAdvisor has a special on the Trio pre/amp combo for $1294.49. 'Should be right up your alley.

[blackraven]

Go with the GS series over the RS. The GS is much better than the RS from what I have read and the people I talked to here in town that used to sell MA.

I would also go with an amp that has more power. My Monitor Audio S1's soak up the power and even tax my vintage 50wpc technics integrated amp at loud volumes.

The Parasound would be a good match with plenty of power and true XLR to go with that nice Bechmark DAC.

You should also consider a Van Alstine SS amp and preamp or his 90wpc integrated.

http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipmen...rison_grid.htm

http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipmen...fier/index.htm

http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipmen...rison_grid.htm

Browse the Van Alstine forum http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=48

If your interested in Van Alstine, give Frank a call or email him, he will check shipping rates to you. He was going to ship to some one in singapore for $60.

[Ajani]

Hi Ajani, nice choice in speakers! However I don't think that Naim will be an ideal match for MA, personally I would be leaning towards MF. Any chance you can stretch your budget for an A5.5 integrated? This is an exceptional match for the MA Silver Series

Also you could swing Rotel separates within this budget, for instance Rotel RC-1082 pre-amp and RB-1080 poweramp (200Wpc)

cheers,
elapsed

Funny you should mention Rotel.... 2 years ago when I lived in Toronto, I had a Rotel RC-1070 and RB-1080 Combo... and had I stayed, I would have bought Monitor Audio GS20s...

[Ajani]

Have you considered Emotiva? Their RSP-2 preamp is quite a head turner with balanced out, various preamp outputs and lots of other features (including a headphone amp and MM phono, unfortunately). But you can pair that with their $299 UPA-2 amp and still have plenty left for speakers. Or if you want more power, they have a 500W powerhouse for just $799. I don't think you can buy that much power anywhere else for that price.

Another option is Vincent Audio. Their SV-226 integrated has some interesting specs but is a bit pricey for your budget. There's always NAD. They've stopped making poop-colored gear, and the new black gear looks very clean with very impressive specs.

But, if you're willing to spend that much, you should definitely check out PS Audio. Their amps should be a very good fit for the MA speakers, as those speakers can sound bright and etchy. By the way, PS Audio's Trio integrated amp is a 100/200 watt little monster that is stable down to 2 ohms. It also would pair well with the Benchmark's color and style. I just saw that AudioAdvisor has a special on the Trio pre/amp combo for $1294.49. 'Should be right up your alley.

I don't think I can give NAD another chance... after I originally upgraded from a NAD Integrated to Rotel Seperates, I never looked back... But I am happy to see that the new NAD gear looks good...

PS Audio is one to consider, especially the ultra-efficient Class D design and due to its lightweight, it would be really cheap to ship...

[Ajani]

Go with the GS series over the RS. The GS is much better than the RS from what I have read and the people I talked to here in town that used to sell MA.

I would also go with an amp that has more power. My Monitor Audio S1's soak up the power and even tax my vintage 50wpc technics integrated amp at loud volumes.

The Parasound would be a good match with plenty of power and true XLR to go with that nice Bechmark DAC.

You should also consider a Van Alstine SS amp and preamp or his 90wpc integrated.

http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipmen...rison_grid.htm

http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipmen...fier/index.htm

http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipmen...rison_grid.htm

Browse the Van Alstine forum http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=48

If your interested in Van Alstine, give Frank a call or email him, he will check shipping rates to you. He was going to ship to some one in singapore for $60.

Yep, the GS are much better than the RS (and at triple the price, they better be!)... but the only fear I have is that to really appreciate the difference I need decent amplification... I remember comparing the GS20, RS6 & RS8 on some cheapy NAD Receiver and not being all that impressed with the differences... Whole different story on Audio Refinement and Musical Fidelity gear...

So I'm afraid to spend all my money on the GS20 and then have to use a Panasonic Mini System as the amp or an entry level NAD or Cambridge Integrated...

If I find a good deal though, I might be able to get the GS20 and a Power amp (Rotel RB1080, PS Audio Trio A100, Parasound Halo A23 or maybe a Van Alstine)...

[Luvin Da Blues]

So I'm afraid to spend all my money on the GS20 and then have to use a Panasonic Mini System as the amp

No worries, It will sound just fine. Just use Audioquest speaker cables and keep them 12' (+/- 6.27") apart.

Go on Rich, check and see if I changed the variance again!!!!

[02audionoob]

I listened to the Nait with a pair of ProAc mini-monitors this past weekend. It's nice, but I wouldn't go 'round recommending it. I guess I was a little unimpressed with the imaging and the highs. I wouldn't blame it on the speakers since another amp in the room did much better with the same speakers, although at a higher price point.

Any lack of bass I dismissed as the limitations of the tiny speakers.

[blackraven]

Anji, call email Frank VA and ask if he has any used amps. He has some from time to time or amps that are returned or traded in. He fixes and upgrades them.

I would not worry about amplification right now. Buy the speakers that you really want and upgrade the amp at a later date. You might be sorry if you end up buying the RS6's and eventually get a good amp. I bet a Cambridge audio integrated .amp would do just fine. The 740A has gotten good reviews. You should also consider a B&K reference series 125.2 power amp. I like the B&K sound and you can pick this amp up for $600-700. http://www.bkcomp.com/products/ampli...ttproducts_pi1[backPID]=14&tx_ttproducts_pi1[product]=5&cHash=5abcbb5051.

Also consider an emotiva amp and a high quality preamp.
That benchmark DAC will give very good sound through a decent amp.
Get yourself a good preamp and a decent amp. If that amp gets a clean signal from a good preamp and DAC then you should have very good sound. The amp is only as good as the source. Clean signal=clean sound. Poor signal and the best amp in the world will sound l,ike crap.

[blackraven]

Van Alstine has some used amps for sale http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/used/used.htm

[Ajani]

I listened to the Nait with a pair of ProAc mini-monitors this past weekend. It's nice, but I wouldn't go 'round recommending it. I guess I was a little unimpressed with the imaging and the highs. I wouldn't blame it on the speakers since another amp in the room did much better with the same speakers, although at a higher price point.

Any lack of bass I dismissed as the limitations of the tiny speakers.

I've been intrigued by Naim for a while, but I've never heard one (and would probably not be able to audition one before buying)... Also, the only speakers I've heard that are supposed to have great synergy with Naim (Totem) really didn't impress me (they weren't bad, just didn't hold my attention)... So I'd either have to buy the Naim and Speakers totally untested (which could be a major disaster) or buy Totem and Naim and risk being as bored with that combo as I with was Totem & Arcam...

[Ajani]

No worries, It will sound just fine. Just use Audioquest speaker cables and keep them 12' (+/- 6.27") apart.

Go on Rich, check and see if I changed the variance again!!!!

Problem is I won't have enough money left for 12ft Audioquest cables... but I do have a lot of bread bag ties... so if I tie enough of them together and wrap them in garbage bags, I could create my own 12 ft cables...

[Ajani]

Anji, call email Frank VA and ask if he has any used amps. He has some from time to time or amps that are returned or traded in. He fixes and upgrades them.

I would not worry about amplification right now. Buy the speakers that you really want and upgrade the amp at a later date. You might be sorry if you end up buying the RS6's and eventually get a good amp. I bet a Cambridge audio integrated .amp would do just fine. The 740A has gotten good reviews. You should also consider a B&K reference series 125.2 power amp. I like the B&K sound and you can pick this amp up for $600-700. http://www.bkcomp.com/products/ampli...ttproducts_pi1[backPID]=14&tx_ttproducts_pi1[product]=5&cHash=5abcbb5051.

Also consider an emotiva amp and a high quality preamp.
That benchmark DAC will give very good sound through a decent amp.
Get yourself a good preamp and a decent amp. If that amp gets a clean signal from a good preamp and DAC then you should have very good sound. The amp is only as good as the source. Clean signal=clean sound. Poor signal and the best amp in the world will sound l,ike crap.

I know that the RS6 sounds good... but I may end up spending more time thinking about how much better the GS20 sounds... worse if the RS6 combo doesn't sound nearly as good as my headphone combo... I really don't want to have a major step down in quality from the phones to the speakers (but short of being extremely patient or winning the lottery, I can't see myself spending $4.5K and up to get full range high end speakers)...

Thanks for the B&K and Van Alstine suggestions... I ruled out Emotiva due to the weight of the amps and correspondingly high shipping costs...

More and more I think just a good 2 channel power amp will be my best bet... The only reason I'd get a preamp eventually is to have a remote (though technically I could just adjust volume on the Squeezebox - I'll probably test that option out 1st to see whether or not it has an adverse effect on sound quality, as there is a lot of debate over digital volume control).

[Luvin Da Blues]

Problem is I won't have enough money left for 12ft Audioquest cables... but I do have a lot of bread bag ties... so if I tie enough of them together and wrap them in garbage bags, I could create my own 12 ft cables...

I see the problem. You only need 2 X 6ft (+/- 3.135") cables, unless ya wanna bi-wire. Would dis fit da budget? BTW, I've had good luck with putting those 'custom" conductors in lengths of garden hose.

[nightflier]

A couple of suggestions:

If you have some RJ45 cable laying around (computer cables), then you can build your own cables. Some people swear by them, others don't. I built a pair once and they sounded OK, but nothing special. Just Google DIY RJ45 speaker cables, and I'm sure there will be lots of suggestions.

If weight is an issue, how about NuForce? They make some reasonably priced amps that weigh next to nothing compared to the other guys. I haven't heard them but they have quite a following. I don't think NuForce has been able to address the noise problems inherent in class-D technology as well as PS Audio and Spectron have, but they make some very inexpensive amps that may just fit your needs.

P.S. NuForce actually includes 1 or 2 meter RJ45 speaker cables for use with their Ikon mini-integrated. The amp is only 10/15w, so not really what you need for full towers, but I did think it was interesting that they use that and even suggest making your own if you want longer runs (they have a pin-out diagram on the website). If you are considering more sensitive speakers as well, then you could consider it and it probably weighs very little too.

[Feanor]

....
If weight is an issue, how about NuForce? They make some reasonably priced amps that weigh next to nothing compared to the other guys. I haven't heard them but they have quite a following. I don't think NuForce has been able to address the noise problems inherent in class-D technology as well as PS Audio and Spectron have, but they make some very inexpensive amps that may just fit your needs.
...

Great minds think alike. Seems I too was independently thinking of NuForce.

Ajani could get a P-8S preamp plus 8.5 V2 power amp (160 wpc @ 8 ohm) combo for < $2k.

Or a IA-7 V2 integrated (100 wpc @ 8 ohms) for < $1200.

I'd love to try 'em.

[zudo]

Have you considered Emotiva? Their RSP-2 preamp is quite a head turner with balanced out, various preamp outputs and lots of other features (including a headphone amp and MM phono, unfortunately). But you can pair that with their $299 UPA-2 amp and still have plenty left for speakers. Or if you want more power, they have a 500W powerhouse for just $799. I don't think you can buy that much power anywhere else for that price.

Another option is Vincent Audio. Their SV-226 integrated has some interesting specs but is a bit pricey for your budget. There's always NAD. They've stopped making poop-colored gear, and the new black gear looks very clean with very impressive specs.

But, if you're willing to spend that much, you should definitely check out PS Audio. Their amps should be a very good fit for the MA speakers, as those speakers can sound bright and etchy. By the way, PS Audio's Trio integrated amp is a 100/200 watt little monster that is stable down to 2 ohms. It also would pair well with the Benchmark's color and style. I just saw that AudioAdvisor has a special on the Trio pre/amp combo for $1294.49. 'Should be right up your alley.

Outlaw Audio has seven channel 200 watt and 300 watt by seven channel amps with balanced outputs, great reviews and only for $2-3K and your getting new not used stuff. I know having a esoteric brand is cool but I think I'd rather have a high quality new amp than a used product with a name and no clue if it will last before repairs are needed.