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  1. #1
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    Association sugden A21A and Dynaudio contour 1.3MK2

    Hello, I would like to know If somebody has tried this association. The dynaudios have only 86 db on 8ohms and the sugden is only 25 watts. Is it a good association. I am looking for a warm sweet sound, with non agressive treble, but I want real bass. I also thought about plinius 9100 (I can save money for a better result). Thank you for your comments.

  2. #2
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    I'd be VERY surprised if that Sugden couldn't adequately drive the Dynaudios....
    I think you'll end up with a the warm/sweet sound you're looking for, to tell you the truth, although, the bass will a little more on the refined side rather than rich and pronounced.
    Judging by your choice in gear, you seem like a person interested in great midrange clarity, and smooth response all the way through, rather than a lively, punchy sound.

    That's actually a very good looking system you're building there!!! But what else are you looking at? If I was in your place, I'd be sampling me just about every speaker and amp I could find.

  3. #3
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    Kexodusc, thank you very much for your answer. You are completely right about my tastes. I really do prefer a smooth response rather than a punchy sound. This is really important for me. In fact, I would like to have both, but I live in an apartment, and I Think my neighboors would not appreciate such a lively sound . Moreover to get a real punchy sound, with quality, that requires a lot of power...and a lot of money. I've just sold my thule amp, and I want to get now a very homogeneous stereo system, with warmth and non agressive treble. All your comments are welcome.

    P.S. I hope everybody will understand my english, I may do some grammatical mistakes. Sorry for that.

  4. #4
    RGA
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    The Sugden was highly reviewed several years ago and the speaker they used was an 86db 4 ohm Totem - the Sugden had no problem playing loud and very very well. Yes the Sugden would prefer an easier load - but the A21a is one of the most impressive sounding SS ampls available - it would be the first on my list if I were to go the SS route again (for sane money anyway)

    Still you want to try the combo yourself to be sure.

    Watts really are the biggest misunderstood almost gimmick in the industry. I walk through stores looking at 500 watt JVC boomboxes that fdon;t play loud and are no good. But wow the Watt sticker can impress your friends. That is until they hear a 6 watt Audio Note SET, with the right speakers, make you feel like you got in the chest with a bat from he energy. Conversely I hear 100 watt receivers with a lot of slim line spekaers sound like a P.O.S trying to strain to produce any sort of true dynamic bass line.

    The original 10 watt Sugden a21 was an extremely popular amp in Britain driving Quad elecrostatic panels - My 125 watt continuous high current stable to 4ohm flagship Pioneer Elite was destroyed trying to drive a set Martin Logans at moderately loud levels.(well the store's version not mine). Watts. blaggards - there are very few amplifiers over 100 watts that have sounded good to me - and even those while sounding good would not be my first choice.

    Still listen before you buy because I don;t think you can add a power amp to the A21a - you can add a preamp so be careful just in case you do need the extra power you may not be able to add it.

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    Thank you RGA for your answer .

  6. #6
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    For those speakers I would go with the Plinius. With the Dyn's being such a neutral (power hungy) speaker, the Plinius will bring out the warmth while still giving you the dynamics, headroom and authoritative bass you expect from a SS amp. If you want to soften and smooth things out further I would go with a tubed CDP like the Jolida or the Ah! Njoe Tjoeb 4000, both under $1000 US.

    I'm sure the Sugden will power the speakers, but there is a proven synergy between Dynaudio and Plinius and if you ever want to upgrade up the Dyn chain, it's nice to know the extra power is on tap.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobo
    Hello, I would like to know If somebody has tried this association. The dynaudios have only 86 db on 8ohms and the sugden is only 25 watts. Is it a good association. I am looking for a warm sweet sound, with non agressive treble, but I want real bass. I also thought about plinius 9100 (I can save money for a better result). Thank you for your comments.
    When John Atkinson measured the Dynaudio Contour 1.3MK2 in his review in Stereophile magazine, he estimated the sensitivity at 84 dB, and noted that the impedance curve dropped to a minimum of 3.43 ohms at 177 hz.

    http://stereophile.com/loudspeakerre...33/index4.html

    You also mention "real bass." Now, I don't know what you mean by that but a small speaker will not have high output at low frequencies, although it's small signal response may indicate satisfactory response at reasonable levels. I myself have monitor speakers that do quite well in the bass, with a very similar bass range. Mine are quite satisfactory with most music without a subwoofer, but I like to have a subwoofer for the deep bass below 50 Hz. I know some people seem to have enormous difficulty setting up a sub properly but it's really not that hard.

    Well, Sugden products have a good reputation and I think they can drive low impedances, but frankly I would go for a larger amplifier for an insensitive speaker.

    By all account Plinius makes very fine equipment, and it would probably drive the Dynaudios, although they only give a rating for 8 ohms. They give a peak current capacity of 20 amps, however that is measured. You should try them out together to see how they work together, and whether the amplifier shuts down or overheats or clips. You could ask Dynaudio and Plinius about the compatibility. However, I really wouldn't expect any problem. The only thing that bothers me about the Plinius 9100 is that it not only doesn't have tone controls (which are of limited use, really), it doesn't even seem to have a balance control. Well, OK, but I think a balance control is handy as not all recordings have the same channel balance.
    "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
    ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.

  8. #8
    RGA
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    Bobo

    Do you own the speakers? If not then why not consider a different speaker one that will be more friendly. If you're in europe try the Audio Note AN K/Spe with the Sugden - I have the A48b which is not as good as the A21a but nonetheless got very good results with the K/Spe. I personally prefer the dynamics and bass response on tap from the K to most speakers for similar money. You're then talking about a speaker which doesn't go under 5ohms is 90db can play louder and can play louder with fewer watts.

    Basically, you will be sure not to have any of these power issues as 8 watts is enough for the K. Another one to try is the Reference 3a MM de Capo - which while it has some personality it's a good personality.

    There is no reason to buy insensitive speakers - it used to be that you had to trade off sensitivity for bass - but AN is high sensitivity AND lotsa bass. So a search on AA - the reviews there etc http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/bbs.html. Basically you get a blend of the best of horns and stats rolled up into one speaker but ohh add a sizeable helping of bass.

    And also considered the used market. Dane is good don't get me wrong just to avoid any power issue I figure the K would be in the general price range.

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    You also mention "real bass." Now, I don't know what you mean by that but a small speaker will not have high output at low frequencies, although it's small signal response may indicate satisfactory response at reasonable levels.
    So you haven't heard Dynaudio monitor speakers?

  10. #10
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    although they only give a rating for 8 ohms.
    http://www.gcaudio.com/products/revi...foplinius.html

    For some reason Plinius doesn't list a 4 ohm rating for the 9100. They did for the previous model, the 8100. Anyway, the above site lists it as 180wpc. I wouldn't be concerned with impedance unless we're talking 2 ohms.

    You should try them out together to see how they work together, and whether the amplifier shuts down or overheats or clips.
    This is highly unlikely.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickWH
    So you haven't heard Dynaudio monitor speakers?
    No, and I did not claim to. I have, however, heard the Totem Mani-2 Signature, which goes lower, and in the house of the owner, with some room gain, they actually produced some of the 32 foot organ pedals, though distorted, as I would expect. His drives them with a pair of Bryston 7B amplifiers. But do they have "real bass?" Well, I don't know because the term is vague and imprecise. For some purposes, yes, for others, no.

    http://stereophile.com/loudspeakerre...62/index4.html

    I don't think John Atkinson's measurements lie. In his room, the Dynaudio 1.3 had useful bass down to close to 30 Hz--as did my PSB Stratus Minis. So neither goes as deep as the Mani-2. Now I still don't know what Bobo means by "real bass," and neither do you. Maybe he would find this satisfacory, maybe not. I have a subwoofer for the deep bass, and I get can get deeper, louder, cleaner bass than even the Mani-2 can produce. But if Bobo wants high output bass, well, a small woofer isn't going to do it, even though it would be fine at reasonable levels. Whether it has "real bass" or not depends on what he means by real bass.
    "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
    ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.

  12. #12
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    Quote:
    although they only give a rating for 8 ohms.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickWH
    http://www.gcaudio.com/products/revi...foplinius.html

    For some reason Plinius doesn't list a 4 ohm rating for the 9100. They did for the previous model, the 8100. Anyway, the above site lists it as 180wpc. I wouldn't be concerned with impedance unless we're talking 2 ohms.
    Quote:
    You should try them out together to see how they work together, and whether the amplifier shuts down or overheats or clips.


    This is highly unlikely.
    I didn't say it was. Indeed, I said: "However, I really wouldn't expect any problem."

    If Bobo is worried, he can contact the manufacturers. Also, I think it is best to try out an amplifier (especially when we have no proper measurements for its performance into low impedances) with the speakers. Now, one can't tell too much, but there are gross behaviors such as clipping, overheating, or tripping the amp's protection. I have no idea why you think pointing this out means such things are very likely.

    For all I know, the Plinius might handle 2 ohm loads. But I think it will probably work fine with the Dynaudios up to 105 dB peaks or thereabouts. I do think the little Sugden probably wouldn't have enough power for him. But maybe he doesn't listen very loud . . . we don't know for sure.
    "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
    ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.

  13. #13
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    Once again, thank you everybody for your answers, and your help in my quest. Well I understand the confusion when I talk about "real bass". Yes I know the limits of bookshelf speakers in the bass range, and it's enough for me (for the moment). But I don't want boomy bass, I want tight bass. I hope you will understand what I mean.

  14. #14
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    Many times boomy bass is room related and/or easily addressed by closing the port onbass reflex speakers, personally I think that a good subwoofer will transform many a bookshelf because there is a lot of information below ~60Hz mark. Many bookshelfs begin to rolloff between 60 - 70Hz even though they are rated down to ~40Hz, filling that hole really transforms the sound, there are other advantages to be had especially with an active subwoofer like dedicated subbass amplification, lower distortion etc, room flexibility etc but you have to try it yourself.
    Last edited by theaudiohobby; 12-07-2004 at 06:16 AM.

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