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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Grampi if you want to save money on buying power amplifiers try buying sensitive speakers. Contrary to popular belief there is ZERO advantage in buying speakers that are sensitive and thus 20 watts is more than you'll ever need. And if a sub is a must buy a powered one.

    You say a few posts up that you NEED a 400 watt amp? Why? That is exactly double the perceived volume level over a 40 Watt amp. If my speakers are rated 10db more sensitive than yours I will get the same loudness level with 40 watts that you will achieve with 400Watts.

    Then you can buy yourself a $20.00 integrated amp that is 20 years old.

    More watts doesn't mean better sound...generally the higher the watt number the worse the amp actually sounds in my experience. Bryston and Krell are exceptions along with many others but none would be my first hoice because to get them to sound that good well costsl like a Bryston and a Krell. The same can be had for 1/5 to 1/10 their price if you choose speakers wisely.

    A good old Khorn needs all of 3 watts to play very loud with loads of dynamic headroom and will better practically ALL speeakers rated at 85 db and a 500 watt amp. The K horn with 3 watts will probably still hit a 112db. The 85db speaker to get the same would need 512 watts.

    Sensitivity and efficiency.
    I certainly understand what you're saying about efficiency, but I doubt I'm going to be able to run the Tempest sub in my DIY HT enclosure with a 20 watt amp. I'm running it now with 250 watts and I'm not happy with it's performance. I think the direction I need to go with this driver is to put it in a high "Q" enclosure and run it with a lot of power. The driver is rated for 750 watts, and I want an amp capable of this much power. I like tight, punchy bass and right now I'm not getting it. I believe a high "Q" sealed enclosure with a lot of power will give me what I'm looking for.

  2. #77
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    I've always liked sealed enclosures better

    And getting enough power to it is also essential. Grampi, buy an old DC300A and if you don't like it, I'll buy it as long as it's under $300. How's that? Buy one that is guaranteed that if it does not work, you can get your money back. This should not be a problem as most of them are still working. I will buy it if you don't like it.
    Bill

  3. #78
    DIY Dude poneal's Avatar
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    So Grampi, what the status on your amp decison? Haven't heard anything for awhile now. Curious minds wanna know.

  4. #79
    The Collector
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    Quote Originally Posted by poneal
    Beware, PA amps normally only go down to 50Hz, which is the lowest the voice can go. Since your driving a subwoofer, you want to be able to amplify sound down to at least 20Hz. I'm not saying all PA amps only go to 50Hz, but make sure you check the specs to see if they can go down to 20Hz.
    I haven't seen an amp that doesn't produce below 50Hz in a long long time. I work with Pro Audio amps all day long it's my job and they normally have an amazing low frequency response. Thats why I can pump 18Hz into the Community Quad 15" VBS's all day Thats a fun thing to do.

    Grampi, If you want the gas pedal and you are looking to spend the money the Crown K1 or K2 will be a great choice even though they are a little more than what you are looking for in power. If you dont mind buying used look at HTICS's website and see what they have. Another suggestion yet a little expensive is a Lab Gruppen

  5. #80
    DIY Dude poneal's Avatar
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    The PA I referenced means Public Announcing (PA). I think you thought I meant Professional Audio. I may have misinterpreted the question thinking Grampi meant Public Announcing Systems when actually he meant professional audio. Sorry for the confusion. In the case of professional audio amps, I think this is what you need to get in order to drive the subwoofer at the power he needs. Sorry for any miscommunication there. Cheers. Paul.

  6. #81
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    My status is basically nothing right now. I in the middle of a full time class and haven't had any time to do anything. When I do, I'll post a message.

  7. #82
    DIY Dude poneal's Avatar
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    Lotsa wasted time on this thread....

  8. #83
    RGA
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    Basiclaly if you want a brute of an amp with bullitproof reliability and bags of power then go Bryston or don't bother. Lots of people think Crown is garbage and the recent McIntosh thread seems to me they don't stand by their stuff. UHF magazine thinks they're mid-fi with poor solid state design. Tubes are another matter.

    "CROWN
    3. re THD
    > > > I have not yet, in over 30 years in this hobby, found any real correlation between measured harmonic distortion, odd or even, and how close a device brings me to the live performance. Sometimes you will find a correlation, and sometimes the lack of same is boggling. My favorite example was the Sony TA-3200F amp, with THD measured, if I recall correctly, 0.0035%. It also sounded dreadful on anything other than Advents, KLHs, and ARs, i.e. speakers requiring high damping for the woofers *and* having no top end to speak of. The Crown amps are another great example: measured great, sounded terrible. On everything. On the tube side, it goes both ways: there are valve amps that measure badly (especially single-ended triodes) but sound good, and others that measure badly and sound lousy. Then there are units like the Dyna Stereo 70 that measure very mediocre and can astonish. Neither tubes nor transistors own this territory; harmonic distortion, and IM distortion, **as we measure it**, is not, by itself, an indicator of musical truth. They are useful as **relative** indicators to the engineer developing a design, and that's about it. Bill Way AudioAsylum Feb 21 2004.

    McIntosh http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/gen...es/314470.html

  9. #84
    Forum Regular kingdaddykeith's Avatar
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    Mackie Kicks A$$

    I've got a Mackie 1400i, driving 2 Maelstrom Sonosubs at 2 Ohms per channel (VC's Paralleled) and this thing absolutely rocks, very solid bottom end and very quite noise floor. Also great features and adjustments, and very respectable THD specs as far as Pro Amps go, better than Crown or QSC.

  10. #85
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    Theres a lot of good advice going on through this thread but I have to put a plug in for the idea of checking out the Crown products. Crown is not for everybody but it sounds like grampi is looking for some tight results from his sub system and the right Crown ( you have to check the specs ) should do it. K1's and K2's have a damping factor of >3000 from 10 to 400. I use a Macro Tech 2400 on my subs ( damping factor of >1000 ) in the work studio and a Micro Tech 1200 on the high packs. This is a mistake it seems as I don't get much work done when this system is turned on. It turns into a personal concert with sonic clarity and presence that surpasses all equipment I have owned in the past...and thats going back some 35 years. I say don't limit yourself to 300 bucks for a workhorse when you can buy a bullet proof truck for a few hundred more that will grab you by the ears and keep your attention.
    Just my 2 cents
    Carlos

  11. #86
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    i lugged a bunch of crown amps with a band that owned a music store , the only thing he would run ten years ago was a crown macrotech line 1200 watts .. i did buy a crown dc300 early version without overload protection with wood cabinette for 15 bucks .. no you cant its all mine ...
    the power base series is ok when they work but they are too hard to fixx and thats froma repair center not just second hand info they were the low end of the pro series , you want the rack mount anamals . like anny reputable music store has used crown or mackie amps , crown are the easiest i mean from a pro tech , freinds roadied professionally .. i got good info first hand on what a stack of 1200's can do with eaw cabs and loaded jbls {horns} 3 ppl to lift em 5 ply plywood dunno how think think kisses shoes are thinner ..
    but musicians freind has a few crown amps .. i personally would rather have a fan cooled piece , eaven though you may add a fan at a later date .. but my intentions of running a crown amp for my subs in the future are pretty good , after i fix one .. or my denon .. or my carver amps ...mount them in the celler on the justs and duct work em up...
    but living in a half a double with a kid that likes his rap music loud and abnoxiouse .. i tried to respec t for a few years as i have , a bunch of jbl 15's laying around pm 1500 i think .. as wella s a few fosgate car subbs ..enough to hurt these ppl bigtime
    anny way right now i slapped a fisher amp {150 watt bloated} to a single 12 and the kids and his old man are calming down a bit a lil thump and they chicken out .. btw they know what i have here ive let loose on ocasion weasel across the yard has calmed down as these two joined forces ,, pick on the tortured genous
    let me remind you this is my house {half a double} i try and show some respect . i dont screw with ppl to make me look big with lil man syndrome {im 6-0 } bothe idiots are short
    i dont mount my speakers to the partitioning walll .. {cant say the same for some one else}
    then again he found out the hard way when he moved in with his 280 wpc , with sansui speakers what a peeded off cber/ham nut can do with some old tubes ..
    um and i quote"thier was a squeel , then you blew all my tweeters and mids"
    umm personal problem shoulda bught fuses .. sucks when that happens ..
    2am piece and quiet .. happens frequently around here after the tubes get warmed up enough to transmit ....sianara scumbag :-)
    i have had his kid begg .. these are not nice ppl . take with a grain of salt if you want to know we would be off topic and almost need a new thread called neighbors....
    but back on topic i would buy the biggest baddest crown amp i could afford ... then say hi to my police dept for shure .... but i would suggest one with my tech experiance .. techincal support from crown is great ive had problems and emailed them witha house part number , they emailed the generic equivelent not only one number but nte. industry standards they too the time to cross reference the numbers im impressed
    sony would have had a good laugh with thier morning cofee ...and tugh luck buy this 9 dollar part 75 bucks its a sony {jack asses}

    thanx you cant go wrong on anny of the crown stuff most durable cost effeciant amp on the market thats in the words of who owns a music store like 300 bucks buys a lot used ...
    thanxz laterz

  12. #87
    Forum Regular kiwijunglist's Avatar
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    crown xls

    Hi

    Apparently you can disconnect the fans in the Crown XLS amps. They don't get hot unless you push them like crazy. Most audiophile amps don't even have fans (although they do however have larger heatsinks)

    The other option is to put a 100 ohm resister (atleast 4Watt strength) on the little 12/24V cable that powers the fan, that should cut the speed in half.

    i just spent 4 hrs reading the crown discussion on www.avsforum.com

    I was thinking of getting some kind of m-audio card that has a preamp box outside the computer, then i will swap my NAD C352 for Crown or similar poweramp.

    -Mike

    Current System
    Foobar2000 mp3 software
    VIA AC97 Onboard sound chip
    NAD C352 Integrated Amp
    Mission M34 Floor standers
    Monster cables

  13. #88
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    Crown K-1

    If you want a power amp without a fan, you might want to look at a used DC300, or look at the Crown K series(K1), these not only have no fans, but are the most efficient amps in Crown's line-up because of their power supply techology. Of course, you'll pay twice as much, but it depends on what you think is worthwhile.

    -Bruce[/QUOTE]
    Hi, I'm presently using a Crown K-1 driving a pair of DIY Isobarik 10 inch peerless CC Line subs. The bass is tight as it will ever be I think. It is musical. It is replacing an Parasound HCA 1500A (205wpc/8 ohms). There is no comaparaison whatsoever. The crown amp is just cruising along.
    A class A dor subs at least if not for driving mains.
    Cheers
    Hifidan

  14. #89
    golden ear
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelly3s
    i would avoid behringer by any means... and you don't need a fan i wouldn't want one in a home enviroment anyways. i own the smaller version of the JBL Urie. I have the 6230 they are better sounding than most hifi amps you would spend over a 1000 for. The 6260 is a great amp, one of the best of all time but it always will be second to the crown d-150
    why so? why do you sound so sour on behringers?

  15. #90
    The Collector
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    behringer uses cheap parts and the equipment is cheaply made. their europower amps or whatever they are called are a total rip off of the QSC RMX line. They have a history of poorly reproducing top end gear and calling it their own. Plus there is only two service centers in the country and if something breaks you cant get parts or a schematic to fix it yourself

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