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  1. #51
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    RGA, you are like a toy, pull your cord and get the same song.

    You made a false statement regarding Krell and Bryston, that's pretty much it. So stop trying to create another one of those tubes vs solid state things. If you notice I use tubes myself but I can't help correcting ridiculous statements made based purely on prejudice as you have. I own both and neither are bass shy and Rotel is not even in the same league as Krell.

    Thanks for the amusing statistics you pulled from your backside.
    MR. P. I was actually at CES - I actually walked into every single room at the" show. Were you there? No? Then how would you know?

    As for Bass - read the review from UHF of the 3bST from a few years back. Or read the ST100 review in Hi-fi choice with the "lightweight" both magazines noted. I have had the 3BST at home.

    One day you will hear a really good audio system around a SET based amp with speakers that have bass depth. Dynaudio Krell based systems are middle of the road sound - lots of slam type of bass - has some big wow factor macrodynamics. It's tiresome. Hopefully you will get the Wes Philips experience - he too is the Dynaudio/Krell type guy (was one of the reviewers that Put the massive Wilson Watt Puppy on the map) and a big Thiel supporter and finally after nearly 30 years reviewing he got to hear something that blows that stuff to the weeds. Luckily you may too at a much younger age and without having to go through so much stuff.

    And again there is SS I like - but I just would not go over a certain point in paying for it. IMO it is better to go with a very good and not so expensive or high powered SE amplifier and put the bulk of the money into the source and speakers. Since Solid State expensive or cheap still sounds merely ok.

    And the not even in the same league argument is silly - depends which products we're talking about - Rotel doesn't rip people off. It sounds like SS unfortunately but I'd rather have that SS sound for under $3k than spend to have that SS sound at $30k.
    Last edited by RGA; 04-30-2011 at 03:33 PM.

  2. #52
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    You're not experience enough listening to different designs - sorry to point this out to you.
    Don't BS me... You are not remotely sorry about lording your superior experience over anybody...

    Though frankly, other than to float your own boat, I fail to see the relevance to the discussion, since I've never claimed to prefer SS over SET and have said repeatedly that I may well end up enjoying a SET system everntually... The difference is that I can keep my arrogance in check and respect the fact that others might not share my sonic preferences... You obviousaly can't...


    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    But most of the industry is Low Efficiency and SS because it is far more profitable to dealers. It's about selling boxes and making money for most of them - all of them really since Soundhounds does the same thing - though at least they don't deny it and they do carry some stuff they actually like as well. The very top of the line SS gear is quite good - I have no problem with MF liking what he does - and I agree with him on some points - his take on Bryston for example. On the other hand and in the same breath I would take the Bryston over his MF gear in a second because the difference in SS is just not big enough there to warrant the expense in my view. Bryston I recognize to at lease be a value added product.

    It is not close minded to want people to listen first then pontificate their vies about me and my views second. I grew up with SS and CD - not tubes and Vinyl. How would Mr. P, you and Feanor and several others here know they would not share my view unless they bothered to actually audition the stuff.

    It's all very nice to try and infer what you think it might sound like because 20 years ago you heard a tube amp connected to some Klipsch loudspeaker - but it's not the same thing. Very few dealers carry (again because its not sexy looking) or easy to operate top flight HE systems. And don't assume that all these reviewers have heard it either. UHF magazine has been selling for 29 years and only very recently did they audition Audio Note. And liked it a lot to boot. That doesn't mean it will be your first choice - but there is clearly a gradation of gear and it is not all about "opinion" In my opinion Fremer's opinion is wrong. And his opinion of my opinion is wrong. I can live with that. But before you jump on my opinion of his opinion maybe you should listen to a system he thinks is great for around the same money as one I think is great and judge from the results.
    As having a discussion on audio with you is a waste of time, I'll simply defer to your superior experience and listening preferences... Clearly the only reason everyone doesn't own a SET/HE system is because we haven't heard a good one... And if, like John Atkinson, we have then it must be that we are corrupt, deaf or hold a personal grudge against all SET manufacturers...

  3. #53
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    As having a discussion on audio with you is a waste of time, I'll simply defer to your superior experience and listening preferences... Clearly the only reason everyone doesn't own a SET/HE system is because we haven't heard a good one... And if, like John Atkinson, we have then it must be that we are corrupt, deaf or hold a personal grudge against all SET manufacturers...
    You admit you have not heard one. So why not take a breath go listen and then see what happens. The fact that John Atkinson likes or doesn't like something doesn't interest me. I care about what I like and I believe more people will hear it like me than those who won't. And I have stated the reasons why. You keep using words like "we" when you are not part of the "we." Until you have tried it then you may be part of the "they" that likes SET/HE.

    And how is it lording anything when I simply stated a fact. Several people on these boards like arguing against products that they have never auditioned - why? Is it out of some fear that indeed there may be greener grass over the fence and because you have already spent money you want to deny the possibility that something exists that could in fact sound better?

    I don't believe people hear things completely differently - otherwise we'd all have trouble understanding eachother - we all see the colour blue the same way and we all know the sound of a dog barking or what a triangle or violin sounds like. But I have no dog in this hunt - I really don't care what you choose or what you prefer - but at least audition that which you are going to talk about. And if I come across as too opinionated it's because to me it's that much better and there is no going back

    I go back to the owner of the top Bryston/PMC guy who pretty much nails it to a tee. You can pretty much insert "any" SS amp for his Bryston and pretty much any LE speaker for the PMC. (I actually don't mind that combo of gear) but in the vast majority of cases (some exceptions) the guy nails it. People say they want honesty in reviews - but they only want honesty from reviewers if it doesn't say anything negative of what they like/own. http://www.audioasylum.com/reviews/O...al/345133.html

  4. #54
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    RGA, did you really say people here things basically the same?? That's one of the most absurd things you have said and you've said plenty. If we heard things the same we wouldn't be having this discussion. Frenchmon and I go listen to gear now and then, we sometimes disagree on a unit while being in the same room, same audition.

    I think there are different aspects of listening, the musical experience, that excite different people. Clearly AN has given you what you like but to say that's what every one wants and needs is crazy.
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  5. #55
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    RGA, did you really say people here things basically the same?? That's one of the most absurd things you have said and you've said plenty. If we heard things the same we wouldn't be having this discussion. Frenchmon and I go listen to gear now and then, we sometimes disagree on a unit while being in the same room, same audition.

    I think there are different aspects of listening, the musical experience, that excite different people. Clearly AN has given you what you like but to say that's what every one wants and needs is crazy.
    The basic logic that RGA will never understand is that "hearing the same thing" is NOT the same as preferring the same thing... 3 of us could audition 3 sets of speakers together... And while we might all agree that one had the best bass extension, the other had the deepest soundstage and the last had outstanding midrange detail, we could each pick a different one of the 3 speakers to buy... Why? Because each of us may value one of those areas more than the other... All the quarreling in audio about what sounds best is just due to the arrogance of assuming that what I prefer is somehow superior to what someone else picks... It's a shame that so many supposed adults in HiFi can't just accept each other's preferences...

  6. #56
    ...enjoy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    ...

    I still maintain a good tube amp will be better on the Tannoys. SO long as the tube amp has 4ohm taps and most good ones do then that is probably where I would go down the line. SETs or SEPs are the easiest to own since you don't have to do any work with voltmeters and calibration. Just change the tubes like you would change a lightbulb.
    Since I started the original thread I have enjoyed the Rotel 04 that I bought back then, though I kept in my mind comments like this and alike about considering to upgrade to a tube amps, so here I am.

    I've found a used Sugden a21a and I'm going to make an appointment for a listening session. As a novice I don't have any idea if are there things I should be aware of when buying a used tube amps.

    I would like to be a bit more "technically" prepared for the appointment so that I can eventually ask specific questions or pay attention on certain details. Maybe this sound a bit paranoic, but I'm a perfectionist and I think it's always good to know what you're buying with your bucks.

    PS: I don't know which year is the amp but I'll post here a picture, maybe can help.


    Thanks a lot in advance.

    Best regards
    Audio2
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  7. #57
    ...enjoy!
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    I thought to complete this post by adding the conclusion of my quest.

    It is now about 3 months I've been playing the Sugden A21A in place of the Rotel RA 04 and I really enjoy this amp.
    The more I play it the more I love this sound.
    This amp gets warm just like the sound coming out from the Tannoy I own.
    The whole audio system has moved to a higher level and increased the quality of the soundstage.
    The system is clear at low volume levels, rich and textured at mid-levels and dynamic and smooth at loud levels.
    I usually play at low and mid-levels, very occasionally at loud levels, and I'm very happy how the system in these 3 different condition plays.


    Also the system from the guy I bought the Sugden was very interesting.
    This was the configuration:
    Energy C5 speakers
    Arcam cd transport and Arcam Dac model Delta
    Sugden A21A

    I was surprised of the accuracy and synergy of this system combination, though, when played at "loud" level, it seemed loosing dynamic and smoothness.
    Also the sound was more home-theater alike.
    That was my impression.
    I know that he now has an Audio Analogue Primo in place of the Sugden.


    Musical regards,
    Audio2

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