Which Amp

[skeptic]

"Who was it on this board that said he prefers distortion that simulates reality rather than reality that simulates distortion? If I find him, I'll give him a cigar."

Then give him an exploding one because distortion by its very definition doesn't bring you close to the live event, your stated goal but further away. I said in my other postings that the art of measureing amplifiers hasn't kept up nearly with the art of building them. Therefore, to a degree, the objectives for an engineer to design to are incomplete and left to hit or miss. For a purely electronic device such as an audio amplifier, this is intollerable and inexcusable.

"I haven't a clue what makes one sound good and the other bad."

That's the crux of the problem. To a degree, neither do the engineers who design them.

[DMK]

"Who was it on this board that said he prefers distortion that simulates reality rather than reality that simulates distortion? If I find him, I'll give him a cigar."

Then give him an exploding one because distortion by its very definition doesn't bring you close to the live event, your stated goal but further away. I said in my other postings that the art of measureing amplifiers hasn't kept up nearly with the art of building them. Therefore, to a degree, the objectives for an engineer to design to are incomplete and left to hit or miss. For a purely electronic device such as an audio amplifier, this is intollerable and inexcusable.

"I haven't a clue what makes one sound good and the other bad."

That's the crux of the problem. To a degree, neither do the engineers who design them.

I don't recall who first said what I quoted -it may have been RB. I can't say what he may have meant but I can give my take. Without speculating on things I know nothing about such as recording, mastering, amp construction, etc, I'll have to talk about what I do know: sound. Or at least, the sound I hear in my head and deem proper, which is all I have to go on.

For me, tubes and vinyl almost without fail bring me closer to my view of the live even than do SS and CD. Particularly with CD, the exceptions are few and therefore notable. On a few memorable occasions, I was present during the live event. When I bought the CD, there were major sonic anomalies that negatively impacted my enjoyment of the music. Whether this is the medium itself or something else makes for interesting arguments but is ultimately at least somewhat irrelevant to me, since the quality of the finished product is what I deem important.

Yet, tubes and vinyl measure less well than SS and CD, with distortion figures being the primary culprit. With tubes and vinyl, distortion may very well simulate reality while with SS and CD, measured "reality" sounds distorted. However, I understand your point. I just can't reconcile it with my idea of what music should sound like in the home.

It would be easy for someone reading to simply conclude that I prefer the sound of distortion. That someone would be wrong. A list of sonic preferences for me would look like this:

1) Live music
2) Master tape (I've heard three and neither the corresponding LP or the CD sounded remotely like it - absolutely stunning!)
3) 45 RPM LP
4) 33 RPM LP
5) SACD (4 and 5 may become inversed at some point)
6) CD

If the LP's distortions are greater in number, they are at least musically consonant. The CD's distortions are amusical and grating - to my ears. As for amps, I could easily live with SS and not feel I was missing much but I find certain tubed amps sonically superior to any SS amp I've ever heard. The differences aren't earth shattering but they're there. No exploding cigar for RB - he gets a Cuban Montecristo Torpedo, the creme de la creme! He stated succinctly what it took me several paragraphs to explain!

[rb122]

I don't recall who first said what I quoted -it may have been RB. I can't say what he may have meant but I can give my take. Without speculating on things I know nothing about such as recording, mastering, amp construction, etc, I'll have to talk about what I do know: sound. Or at least, the sound I hear in my head and deem proper, which is all I have to go on.

For me, tubes and vinyl almost without fail bring me closer to my view of the live even than do SS and CD. Particularly with CD, the exceptions are few and therefore notable. On a few memorable occasions, I was present during the live event. When I bought the CD, there were major sonic anomalies that negatively impacted my enjoyment of the music. Whether this is the medium itself or something else makes for interesting arguments but is ultimately at least somewhat irrelevant to me, since the quality of the finished product is what I deem important.

Yet, tubes and vinyl measure less well than SS and CD, with distortion figures being the primary culprit. With tubes and vinyl, distortion may very well simulate reality while with SS and CD, measured "reality" sounds distorted. However, I understand your point. I just can't reconcile it with my idea of what music should sound like in the home.

It would be easy for someone reading to simply conclude that I prefer the sound of distortion. That someone would be wrong. A list of sonic preferences for me would look like this:

1) Live music
2) Master tape (I've heard three and neither the corresponding LP or the CD sounded remotely like it - absolutely stunning!)
3) 45 RPM LP
4) 33 RPM LP
5) SACD (4 and 5 may become inversed at some point)
6) CD

If the LP's distortions are greater in number, they are at least musically consonant. The CD's distortions are amusical and grating - to my ears. As for amps, I could easily live with SS and not feel I was missing much but I find certain tubed amps sonically superior to any SS amp I've ever heard. The differences aren't earth shattering but they're there. No exploding cigar for RB - he gets a Cuban Montecristo Torpedo, the creme de la creme! He stated succinctly what it took me several paragraphs to explain!

Thanks but no thanks on the cigar! You accurately defined my earlier statement relative to distortion. I have the same issues as you with the gross inaccuracies of CD's. I'm not a diehard tube fanatic, however. I simply chose the best amp of all those I auditioned and it just happened to be powered by tubes.