$1.4K to $1.6K Budget for New Integrated or New Amp/Preamp Combo

[basite]

Ajani, ever thought of getting a secondhand bigger Musical Fidelity unit? or a new one, just a bigger one?

[Ajani]

Ajani, ever thought of getting a secondhand bigger Musical Fidelity unit? or a new one, just a bigger one?

Those are good options...

The new model would be the A5.5, which would cost me double the XT100 but would give me 250 watts and a USB input!!! So essentially it would cost me what I eventually might spend on the XT100/XDAC V8 combo.... only problem is that I'd have to spend all of that at one time, instead of spacing it out over time.... and in case I buy the Monitor Audio RS6 now instead of the GS20's, I'd feel like a tool to spend nearly $3K on an amp and just $1k on speakers... it'd probably be better to reverse that and buy say a Cambridge Audio 740A and the GS20's....

A used A3.5 or A5 would be great, but I'm not in a major city (or even country for that matter) at this point... so I wouldn't be able to inspect the products before buying and I'd have to trust them to handle international shipping... So used isn't appealing to me...

I wish MF still produced the A3.5.... Who's idea was it to drop that product and produce these whimpy little amps (XT100 and A1) instead?

[Mr Peabody]

I think I'd rather take my chances with a 50 wpc MF than go with the Cambridge.

Which country are you in, Ajani?

[Ajani]

I think I'd rather take my chances with a 50 wpc MF than go with the Cambridge.

LOL.... me too.... I've heard Monitor Audio with both entry level Cambridge Audio and NAD products and wasn't impressed... so even though the 740 and 840 cost a lot more, I just don't have very much faith that they will be that much better than their entry level models....

Which country are you in, Ajani?

St. Kitts....

[Mr Peabody]

First, question, how do you feel about uninvited house guests?

You seem to have pretty good access to equipment there, where are the shops located? I wouldn't think all there or else the island would have a unusually large hi fi community. I won't side track the thread any more but it is interesting the diversity we get here and that's great. It also helps us to get different perspectives on things. What I find fascinating is if we didn't show where we are all from, I think we'd assume from our own area or country because even though we may have some cultural differences the hobby is where our focus is on the board.

[Ajani]

First, question, how do you feel about uninvited house guests?

You seem to have pretty good access to equipment there, where are the shops located? I wouldn't think all there or else the island would have a unusually large hi fi community. I won't side track the thread any more but it is interesting the diversity we get here and that's great. It also helps us to get different perspectives on things. What I find fascinating is if we didn't show where we are all from, I think we'd assume from our own area or country because even though we may have some cultural differences the hobby is where our focus is on the board.

First off, guests are always welcome... especially after I get my stereo setup....

Secondly, there are no good shops here (not even up to best buy standard ), but nearby in St. Maarten there's at least one good shop and several shops in Puerto Rico....

[audio amateur]

You can tell by spelling etc if they are not from an english speaking country. They could be kids as well (Sgtbass anyone?)
Yes it's nice to have diversity. Most of the forum posters are american however.

Ajani, I would personally spend more on speakers than anything else. I would definitely get GS20's over RS6's and cut down on the amp etc.. I bet a 740a would do a pretty good job
It doesn't have the balanced inputs though, unlike the 840. But then the 840 is more expensive. If i'm not wrong the GS20's are fairly efficient, so you don't really need 200+ watts. Let me tell you, my speakers are 84dB/2.83v efficiency (not good at all in my opinion), powered by 10 watts. At normal to good listening levels, they fill my (small room-14 by 10 feet) pretty well.
I would imagine you'll be fine with 50watts+ in a normal/large room with those speakers, unless you want to blast them.

[audio amateur]

First, question, how do you feel about uninvited house guests?

haha

[Ajani]

...............

Ajani, I would personally spend more on speakers than anything else. I would definitely get GS20's over RS6's and cut down on the amp etc.. I bet a 740a would do a pretty good job
It doesn't have the balanced inputs though, unlike the 840. But then the 840 is more expensive. If i'm not wrong the GS20's are fairly efficient, so you don't really need 200+ watts. Let me tell you, my speakers are 84dB/2.83v efficiency (not good at all in my opinion), powered by 10 watts. At normal to good listening levels, they fill my (small room-14 by 10 feet-pretty well).
I would imagine you'll be fine with 50watts+ in a normal/large room with those speakers, unless you want to blast them.

Right now I'm considering basically a 50/50 budget of around $3K for amp and speakers.... so essentially a Monitor Audio RS8 ($1.5K) + Musical Fidelity XT100 ($1.5K).... Since I don't need the extra bass response of the RS8, I can shave $500 off the cost by getting the RS6 instead... So that has me spending just $2.5K....

If I buy the GS20s that's a straight $3K.... so anything I pair them with will go over the budget....

Either way I'm going to have to eventually do some upgrading though. So, I thought I might just go for a nice setup of 50/50 and eventually move the 2 channel rig to a smaller dedicated room... buy some GS20s to combine with either the Musical Fidelity XT-100, Creek Classic, PS Audio Trio or Parasound Halo and keep the RS6 for Home-Theatre duty in the Living Room (and buy a cheapo AV Receiver)..... Or Keep the GS20 in the Living Room and Combine the RS6 with an entry level NAD/Cambridge Audio as a bedroom setup.....

Anyway, I guess I've got lots of time to figure out what I'm doing.....

[Feanor]

Ok, please bear with me... I'm in the very very very slow process of rebuilding my 2 channel setup... so I'm looking for components to audition over the next few weeks/months..... though I was originally considering a Krell KAV400xi or NAD Masters M3, I decided it was best to lower my budget (I'm too impatient to save up for the Krell + the import duties will be a pain in the....).... So now, I'm considering a budget of Between $1.4K to $1.6K for either a new Integrated or a new Amp/Preamp Combo ....

I tend agree with Mr. P that my short list would be the Parasound and the PS Audio C-100. It is interesting how different these two are for about the same money. Certainly the Parasound has a strong edge for flexibility, but I wouldn't be surprised if the PS Audio is a bit more detailed and transparent.

If you are willing to buy used the Krell and NAD Master M3 would just about fall into your price range. There again I'd bet significantly different sound: the Krell perhaps more dynamic and neutral; the NAD relatively warm.

By the way, I would be looking at 100+wpc to ensure flexibility of speaker choice going forward.

[Ajani]

I tend agree with Mr. P that my short list would be the Parasound and the PS Audio C-100. It is interesting how different these two are for about the same money. Certainly the Parasound has a strong edge for flexibility, but I wouldn't be surprised if the PS Audio is a bit more detailed and transparent.

If you are willing to buy used the Krell and NAD Master M3 would just about fall into your price range. There again I'd bet significantly different sound: the Krell perhaps more dynamic and neutral; the NAD relatively warm.

By the way, I would be looking at 100+wpc to ensure flexibility of speaker choice going forward.

Between Parasound and PS Audio I'd probably go for PS Audio.... based on small size, simplicity and a matching USB DAC...

Between Krell and NAD, I'd have to try Krell.... even if just to verify whether their reputation is justified... (it really is a shame I don't have a good option to buy used)...

And 100+WPC is really what is making the Musical Fidelity unappealing.... Sure, I love Monitor Audio speakers now... but what if I find a brand I prefer later that isn't as sensitive? Then I have to upgrade both amp and Speakers at the same time....

[Ajani]

Just when I thought things could not get anymore complicated... I found The Absolute Sound's Review of the PS Audio Trio, Pre-amp, Amp and DAC... (I was worried that the DAC might not be up to cut.. but I was wrong).... They loved all 3 (especially the DAC)... which is encouraging, except that the reviewer mentioned he would have been absolutely taken with the amp if he didn't have on hand the new Rotel Class D amp, which he felt was better overall than the PS Audio...

According to the reviewer these new Class D amps are supposed to be really fast and lively... So now I'm left wondering if I should add the New Rotel's to my list instead of the RC1070 & RB1080 Combo I was considering earlier...

Building a setup from scratch is fun, but the options are endless (worse yet, since I can't try out all the options with the correct speakers)....

[audio amateur]

The more you can spend, the more the options.. that's the problem. Even more if you can buy used. It's a real headache.
If you're looking for a relatively inexpensive usb DAC, have a look at the Firestone Fubar II.

[Ajani]

The more you can spend, the more the options.. that's the problem. Even more if you can buy used. It's a real headache.
If you're looking for a relatively inexpensive usb DAC, have a look at the Firestone Fubar II.

Yep... way too many options... I think what I'll probably do is just jump in and buy the PS Audio Trio with Some Monitor Audios when I'm ready and ignore the other options... Since anyway I go about it, I'll be taking a risk of some kind...

[basite]

You can tell by spelling etc if they are not from an english speaking country. They could be kids as well (Sgtbass anyone?)
Yes it's nice to have diversity. Most of the forum posters are american however.

Ajani, I would personally spend more on speakers than anything else. I would definitely get GS20's over RS6's and cut down on the amp etc.. I bet a 740a would do a pretty good job
It doesn't have the balanced inputs though, unlike the 840. But then the 840 is more expensive. If i'm not wrong the GS20's are fairly efficient, so you don't really need 200+ watts. Let me tell you, my speakers are 84dB/2.83v efficiency (not good at all in my opinion), powered by 10 watts. At normal to good listening levels, they fill my (small room-14 by 10 feet-pretty well).
I would imagine you'll be fine with 50watts+ in a normal/large room with those speakers, unless you want to blast them.

I think speakers are as important as the amp. So I'd wait till I can enlarge my budget and then buy what I want...

50 watts (being from MF, count those as real watts...), is enough to drive 'normal' sized and efficiency speakers in a small to medium sized room. Considering the Monitor Audio's are not a pain in the ass to drive (fairly constant impedence, and 'normal' efficiency) would make the MF an exellent choice. However, more power gives more headroom, and thus more power available on peaks. But you can always upgrade later.

just to let you know, I filled an entire cafetaria (at school, it's about 40m by 20m) with sound (to pretty darn high SPL's) using my double advents, driven by a 50 watt denon integrated.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[audio amateur]

I think speakers are as important as the amp. So I'd wait till I can enlarge my budget and then buy what I want...

just to let you know, I filled an entire cafetaria (at school, it's about 40m by 20m) with sound (to pretty darn high SPL's) using my double advents, driven by a 50 watt denon integrated.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

I personally believe speakers can sound much different with respect to other speakers than amps can. But to each his own. It's his decision in the end.
I'm guessing those advents are quite efficient. Good stuff

[Ajani]

My take on the Speakers Vs Amp importance issue, is that Speakers in the Same price range (and category... e.g. Floorstanders) can sound completely different... while Amps in the same price range (and Power specifications) tend to be more subtle in their differences...

However, the difference between the same type of speaker at difference prices tends to be far less significant... e.g. based on my listening experiences... the differences between the B&W CM1 and the B&W 805S, The Revel Concerta F12 and The Revel Perfoma F32 & The Monitor Audio RS6 and The Monitor Audio GS20 were far less obvious than the differences between the sound of each brand of speakers... In each case IMVHO, the cheaper model sounded maybe 85 - 90% as good as the higher end one, while the difference in price was always about 3:1....

So while I definitely think it's worth it to upgrade to a higher model of speakers (if you can afford it), I think it's more essential to find the correct brand and then build a good setup around it....

Also, one of the reasons why I'm more likely to start with say a Monitor Audio RS6 and a PS Audio/Musical Fidelity Amp (and upgrade to the GS20 later on) than to start with the Monitor Audio GS20 and a Entry level NAD or a HT Receiver... is because I did an audition of the Monitor Audio GS20, RS6 and RS8 on a cheap NAD Receiver in a dedicated listening room in a store in Toronto last year... and the sad part is that the only speaker I could correctly identify as playing when I guessed (blind listening test) was the RS8... simply because it had excessive bass... I honestly couldn't tell the difference reliably between the GS20 and the RS6 on cheap electronics....

[basite]

I personally believe speakers can sound much different with respect to other speakers than amps can. But to each his own. It's his decision in the end.
I'm guessing those advents are quite efficient. Good stuff

I agree that a speaker can make the biggest difference, but I also believe that amps can sound different too.

For example, I heard audio physics, being driven by a Mcintosh amp, at first it sounded good, but then you hear the mids sound to over emphasized, and highs were wrong. Bass was good, but still not perfect.
then I heard the same speakers, in the same room, driven by an Accuphase. and I honestly couldn't find one weak point.
both products cost equally much though, and it's definately not a quality issue.
Then you'd say that the Mcintosh is just not as good as the Accuphase. But you're wrong. I then heard the Mcintosh drive Monitor Audio Platinum series speakers (the floorstanders), and the same speakers being driven by the accuphase. Here I preferred the Mcintosh over the accuphase.

amps can make big sound differences IMO, less than speakers? maybe. But finding the right amp for your speakers is as important as choosing your speakers.

don't just buy something, and put it together. Take care about matching.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Ajani]

I agree that a speaker can make the biggest difference, but I also believe that amps can sound different too.

For example, I heard audio physics, being driven by a Mcintosh amp, at first it sounded good, but then you hear the mids sound to over emphasized, and highs were wrong. Bass was good, but still not perfect.
then I heard the same speakers, in the same room, driven by an Accuphase. and I honestly couldn't find one weak point.
both products cost equally much though, and it's definately not a quality issue.
Then you'd say that the Mcintosh is just not as good as the Accuphase. But you're wrong. I then heard the Mcintosh drive Monitor Audio Platinum series speakers (the floorstanders), and the same speakers being driven by the accuphase. Here I preferred the Mcintosh over the accuphase.

amps can make big sound differences IMO, less than speakers? maybe. But finding the right amp for your speakers is as important as choosing your speakers.

don't just buy something, and put it together. Take care about matching.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Good Points...

I Had a similar experience two years ago with my own setup... I initially Had an a NAD C352 Integrated with a C521bee CD Player and a Pair of Mission V63 Speakers... Just Changing from the NAD Amp to a Rotel made a noticeable difference in the sound of my speakers.... the sound went from just being polite to exciting... System matching makes a difference... I'm glad I have a few months to make up my mind on what to buy... and how much to spend.....

BTW, how did the Platinums sound on the Mcintosh? I'd love to get the chance to audition a pair (not that they are anywhere near my current budget... lol)

[basite]

BTW, how did the Platinums sound on the Mcintosh? I'd love to get the chance to audition a pair (not that they are anywhere near my current budget... lol)

let's just say Mcintosh and Monitor Audio make a good match

seriously. The MA platinums are really neutral (sometimes bright, actually), and darn fast, bass is extremely tight too. Sometimes a bit to analytical for me though, that's where the Mac makes it up. the combo became more musical, but still really fast, with exellent bass, and really transparent. The Mcintosh gave more weight to the sound, it gave it more body. Overall a very balanced sound...


They are definately worth a listen. Sound is pretty undescribable, but I'm sure you'll like them


Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Mr Peabody]

Basite, the harmony between pieces of equipment in a system is called synergy

Did you get your Siltech in?

[basite]

Did you get your Siltech in?

yup,

working on the cable review as we speak (or type)...

the new siltech is still breaking in though, but I already clearly remember why I chose this one

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Ajani]

Ok guys, thanks again for all the suggestions...

I had narrowed down my options to the PS Audio Trio C100 (and eventually the matching DAC)... The Creek Classic (eventually with Benchmark DAC1 USB) or Musical Fidelity XT100 (eventually with XDAC V8 - I just read the Stereophile review - nice)....

I ruled out the seperates for space considerations and power has become pretty much a non-issue, since I decided (after consultation with she who must be obeyed) to put my setup in my bedroom (currently about 13 by 10 feet)....

In the end since I will have no chance to try out any of the three choices with the Monitor Audio speakers (except for the Musical Fidelity, which I know sounds amazing)... I decided to use a not-so-scientific approach to deciding between the three... basically I umm... well... asked my wife which one she thought looks pretty... so anyway, seems like it's gonna be a Musical Fidelity/Monitor Audio Combo afterall.... which is perfect for a small to medium room as I've heard that combo several times in a slightly smaller room than my bedroom....

Anyway, thanks again... In a few months, when I finally get around to taking the trip to Puerto Rico and buying the combo... I'll post my initial impressions and eventually a complete review...

[Ajani]

let's just say Mcintosh and Monitor Audio make a good match

seriously. The MA platinums are really neutral (sometimes bright, actually), and darn fast, bass is extremely tight too. Sometimes a bit to analytical for me though, that's where the Mac makes it up. the combo became more musical, but still really fast, with exellent bass, and really transparent. The Mcintosh gave more weight to the sound, it gave it more body. Overall a very balanced sound...


They are definately worth a listen. Sound is pretty undescribable, but I'm sure you'll like them


Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Nice... maybe in 5 or so years I'll be able to upgrade to the Platinums (probably version 2 by that time though... )....

[Mr Peabody]

I can't blame you for going with a proven combo. I don't know if I'd have your patience though to wait.

Usually bedrooms are crowded and not the best for sound stage and stereo set up, any compromises on a different room? Assuming you have a normal bed in there, it makes it difficult to do the listener in the perfect triangle configuration to your stereo speakers. You'll either be too close or have the bed or furnture between you. Hate to wreck anything after you've made a decision but have you ever thought about a good headphone amp and headphones? I am a big Sennheiser fan. I drive mine with the Musical Fidelity X-can but would love to try some others. I believe PS Audio has a head amp out that runs around $999.00. It would be interesting to see if there was that much difference in SQ. I'm not sure how much the X-can is these days but it's about half that price. There are several cheaper than that from reputable companies as well. This comes to mind as it seems space may be an issue for you. Headphones is a way to get excellent sound quality and eliminate any drawbacks of room interactions. Or, maybe put the wife and the TV in the bedroom