thanks for the replys, got the pioneer and here are my reflections. first, the pioneer looks great, love the all silver look of these later 70s receivers. its huge compared to the marantz. i like the blue back-lighting on the marantz w/silver face plate over the pioneer with no back lighting. i dont have many speakers to compare but here is what i tried. first and old pair of bose 901 speakers(always hated them), next some boston acoustics AR-10s, then some boston VR-30s and finally some bookshelf boston CR8s(on stands) and CR6s(no stands). at lower volumes the marantz sounds smoother with more bass in "reserve" and spot on treble that can be raised to unconfortable levels while the pioneer has better seperation, is clearer sounding, yet lacks the weight of the marantz even while having much more power(but only at lower volumes). as soon as the volume is pushed, the pioneer comes to life. this unit wants to be pushed! at first i tried setting up in my bedroom, but the pioneer needs more room to breath(even with the bookshelfs). in a 12 by 20 room it will rock the house, if not the neiborhood. i decided to use the VR30s as they sounded the best match to this receiver. althought the old 901s did smooth out the bass comparable to the marantz, they sounded as thought i was missing something elsewhere(but then i always think that with bose speakers). so my take is the Marantz is better for low level listening, while the pioneer sounds better as the level raises. if classical is your thing the pioneer blows away the marantz at any volumes. the marantz is just to "laid back" sounding for the fast transients of classical. would love to get my hands on a Marantz 2285B or even a 2252B to try a more watts on watts comparo. thanks again