• 12-07-2007, 11:46 AM
    johnny p
    good find for you vintage guys
    not sure what you guys consider "vintage" but this is the 70's I'd say....

    Marantz 1515

    http://cleveland.craigslist.org/ele/497770763.html
  • 12-07-2007, 12:39 PM
    Feanor
    1 Attachment(s)
    Yep
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by johnny p
    not sure what you guys consider "vintage" but this is the 70's I'd say....

    Marantz 1515

    http://cleveland.craigslist.org/ele/497770763.html

    That's a certified classic. I love the old Marantz; recently ago I owned this 2252B, but sold it because I had too little space
    ...
  • 12-08-2007, 03:06 AM
    thekid
    :
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by johnny p
    not sure what you guys consider "vintage" but this is the 70's I'd say....

    Marantz 1515

    http://cleveland.craigslist.org/ele/497770763.html

    Thanks for the heads up it does look like a pretty good unit based on the photo Feanor provided.

    Unfortunately for me the WAF is kicking in right now since in the 2 months or less I have brought into the house 4 recievers, 2 stereo tuners, a reel to reel player, 2 cassette decks, 2 turn tables, 2 sets of speakers, a graphic equalizer and I still have to pick up the vintage console from my in-laws.... :16:

    She has been a champ about it and she is still okay for me bringing in one more set of speakers if I can find them That would put me at an even 20 speakers for a 7 room house not counting the garage and bathrooms...:)

    At this point I think I have enough to do playing with the current toys and looking for that ultimate pair of vintage speakers but you know Cleveland is not that far away.........
  • 12-08-2007, 06:27 AM
    bubslewis
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thekid
    :

    Thanks for the heads up it does look like a pretty good unit based on the photo Feanor provided.

    Unfortunately for me the WAF is kicking in right now since in the 2 months or less I have brought into the house 4 recievers, 2 stereo tuners, a reel to reel player, 2 cassette decks, 2 turn tables, 2 sets of speakers, a graphic equalizer and I still have to pick up the vintage console from my in-laws.... :16:

    She has been a champ about it and she is still okay for me bringing in one more set of speakers if I can find them That would put me at an even 20 speakers for a 7 room house not counting the garage and bathrooms...:)

    At this point I think I have enough to do playing with the current toys and looking for that ultimate pair of vintage speakers but you know Cleveland is not that far away.........


    Speaking of reel to reel tape decks, I have an old Akai reel to reel tape recorder from the late 70's. The unit still functions well. I have 2 old reels of recorded music from the same time frame, but that is all. Is it still possible to get new, virgin reel to reel blank tape? I can't imagine any manufacturer still producing reel to reel, since the demand must be miniscule.

    Bill
  • 12-21-2007, 11:19 AM
    melvin walker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by johnny p
    not sure what you guys consider "vintage" but this is the 70's I'd say....

    Marantz 1515

    http://cleveland.craigslist.org/ele/497770763.html

    No ,very few Vintage Marantz audio equipment is transistor, Mostly all tubes. Saul Marantz
    the founder of Marantz , never built a receiver. Superscope which purchased the Marantz
    name and moved the company to the west coast , did built receivers , but even it's vintage equipment is separates not receivers. Superscope sold the company and as in most audio companies of the past quality went down as times changed.

    The Marantz company that produced the 10B , Model 9's , 8B , 7c which is so valuable today made only one transistor amp , the 7T. The 7T was never excepted by audiophiles of that era.
  • 12-21-2007, 12:29 PM
    Feanor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by melvin walker
    No ,very few Vintage Marantz audio equipment is transistor, Mostly all tubes. Saul Marantz
    the founder of Marantz , never built a receiver. Superscope which purchased the Marantz name and moved the company to the west coast , did built receivers , but even it's vintage equipment is separates not receivers. ...

    Melvin,

    A old-timer like yourself is entitled to view only the Saul Marantz tube stuff as vintage. But the truth is the more popular definition of "vintage" audio is any decent quality stuff pre-1980, which certainly includes a large number of solid state Marantz receivers, amps, and tuners. Equally, it includes lots of s/s stuff from Pioneer, Kenwood, Sansui, Yamaha, Sony, Denon, and other decent makers.

    Personally I view post-vintage to begin only in the early '80s when integrated circuits vs. discete components started to predominate in the market. At the same time things got ugly, literally so: knobs replaced by buttons (or worse, sliders); silver replaced by black; analog meters by LEDs; metal by plastic, etc..
  • 12-21-2007, 02:29 PM
    melvin walker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor
    Melvin,

    A old-timer like yourself is entitled to view only the Saul Marantz tube stuff as vintage. But the truth is the more popular definition of "vintage" audio is any decent quality stuff pre-1980, which certainly includes a large number of solid state Marantz receivers, amps, and tuners. Equally, it includes lots of s/s stuff from Pioneer, Kenwood, Sansui, Yamaha, Sony, Denon, and other decent makers.

    Personally I view post-vintage to begin only in the early '80s when integrated circuits vs. discete components started to predominate in the market. At the same time things got ugly, literally so: knobs replaced by buttons (or worse, sliders); silver replaced by black; analog meters by LEDs; metal by plastic, etc..

    Popular vintage , thats a new term. Audio is no diffeent than other items classified as vintage. Wines , cars , watches , guns , etc. The best example is what the market will bear for vintage audio gear. Example a Marantz Model 9 which sold for $ 384.00 when new now sells for well over $ 5,000 , a Marantz 7C which sold for $264,00 when new now goes for in excess $ 2,000.

    Speakers a JBL Paragon which sold for $2500 when new now will fetch well over $10,000.
    Is that no different than a Ferrari Daytona , an early Patek Philppe watch or bottle of Mouton Rothschild ? The audio equipment manufactured by Superscope using the Marantz name did not have the quality or reputation of the tube equipment.

    You are correct there was a change after 1980 , but what about quality ? That is where time plays a major role. The post 80's audio depending on the company was massed produced by large corporations, with profit as it's most important.product.
    There was excellent audio built after 1980 , but it was also very , very expensive Audio Research is one of the Amps. B&W Nautilus speaker is another.

    Receivers even today is viewed by audiophiles as a compromise. I have a post 1980 tuner the Marantz 150. It does not match the quality of the famous Marantz 10B. Nor the sound.
    My Marantz 10B which I bought in 1970 for $600.00 now is worth over $3000.00 , the Marantz 150 made by Superscope which I purchase for $500.00 in 1981 now can be had for less than $200.00. Which is and which is not vintage ?
  • 12-21-2007, 02:49 PM
    melvin walker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor
    That's a certified classic. I love the old Marantz; recently ago I owned this 2252B, but sold it because I had too little space
    ...

    The only receivers that in my opinion that can be called classic is the early McIntosh tube and transistor receivers. The Marantz was not very expensive and was not made by Marantz ! Receivers were hardly ever sold as high -end audio gear. Mac being the exception.

    This unit was either made by Superscope in California or somewhere in the far east.
    Marantz never built a receiver . Fisher and Scott made excellent receivers far better than Superscope. As a matter of fact Fisher Radio was responsible for the popularity of the receiver.

    Receivers solved a problem , they took up less space and was cheaper than separates.
    Separates had better sound and was more flexable. No audiophile would dare buy a receiver. I don't think that has changed.
  • 12-21-2007, 08:25 PM
    Feanor
    Definitions
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by melvin walker
    Popular vintage , thats a new term. Audio is no diffeent than other items classified as vintage. ....
    My Marantz 10B which I bought in 1970 for $600.00 now is worth over $3000.00 , the Marantz 150 made by Superscope which I purchase for $500.00 in 1981 now can be had for less than $200.00. Which is and which is not vintage ?

    Calm down, Melvin,

    Nobody is disputing the relative value of a 10B verus 150. Nevertheless there is a very large number of people who consider both to be "vintage" despite the price differential. Obviously it isn't quite the same definition as yours, but I'll stick with mine as the one more commonly understood.

    As you are probably aware but others might not be, a rough idea pre-1980 Marantz market values can be obtained at the following site. Not to make a big deal out of it, but a good 150 will typically go for above the $200 you quoted ...
    http://www.classicaudio.com/value/mz/index.html
  • 12-22-2007, 06:11 AM
    melvin walker
    Vintage audio equipment ??
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor
    Calm down, Melvin,

    Nobody is disputing the relative value of a 10B verus 150. Nevertheless there is a very large number of people who consider both to be "vintage" despite the price differential. Obviously it isn't quite the same definition as yours, but I'll stick with mine as the one more commonly understood.

    As you are probably aware but others might not be, a rough idea pre-1980 Marantz market values can be obtained at the following site. Not to make a big deal out of it, but a good 150 will typically go for above the $200 you quoted ...
    http://www.classicaudio.com/value/mz/index.html

    I would assume that a 1963 Chevrolet Impala is considered vintage. If so where does that leave the 1963 split window Corvette ? My point is that post 1970 Marantz audio equipment was not manufactured by Marantz , but by Superscope.
    Marantz was located in Long Island , Superscope in Chatsworth , California. Superscope purchased the name , Marantz , after Superscope sold the Marantz name the Marantz brand was moved to the far east.

    As far as the 150 , check the prices on Ebay. If others are unaware of the value of audio equipment , there are all types of information available. One need only to do a little research.
    It is sad that a proud and respected company such as Marantz saw it's image as one of the two finest amps , pre-amps and tuners made undermined by those wishing to tap in and make a profit off the name of an excellent company and founder Saul B. Marantz.
  • 12-22-2007, 09:21 AM
    markw
    Uh, welcome to the forum?
    Perhaps you're confusing "vintage" with "classic"? One would think that one with your supposed experience would be able to see the difference, no? Unless, of course, one were not interested in joining in the fun and simply wanted to stir up controversy.
  • 12-22-2007, 11:08 AM
    Feanor
    Of course you're right
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by melvin walker
    ... My point is that post 1970 Marantz audio equipment was not manufactured by Marantz , but by Superscope.
    Marantz was located in Long Island , Superscope in Chatsworth , California. Superscope purchased the name , Marantz , after Superscope sold the Marantz name the Marantz brand was moved to the far east.
    ...

    The likes of the Marantz 7C preamp, 9 power amp, and 10B tuner aren't merely "vintage", they are epochal, iconic classics. A few others such as McIntosh C22 preamp and MC275 power amp might fit that category too. Nevertheless many lessor, especialy pre-1980 products, including Japanese, fit the usual audio definition of "vintage". Yes, and '63 Chey Impalas as well split-window Corvettes, not to mention Duesenbergs and Bugattis.

    Speaking of high prices for the the aforementioned audio icons, their current day prices relect the snobbish, exclusivist attitude of well-heeled collectors out to impress their friends much more than their performance by present-day standards. (Melvin, of course you are an original owner hence not an exclusivist snob.)

    For the price of a very good vintage/classic McIntosh C22 preamp, around $3000, you can buy a mint McIntosh C2200, (yes, tubes), of current production; (there is one of each on Audiogon right now). I doubt the latter's performance gives up anything to the former, (to say the least), and it is far more flexible and user-friendly, (can you say balanced outputs and remote control?). Check out both of them here ...
    http://www.berners.ch/McIntosh/en/Frame_McIntosh.htm

    The above is an interesting comparison in that the two McIntosh were made by the same firm with a continuous history, unlike Marantz. (Albeit the company is now owned by the D&M Holding that happens to be also the present owner of the Marantz brand.)
  • 12-23-2007, 07:04 AM
    melvin walker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor
    The likes of the Marantz 7C preamp, 9 power amp, and 10B tuner aren't merely "vintage", they are epochal, iconic classics. A few others such as McIntosh C22 preamp and MC275 power amp might fit that category too. Nevertheless many lessor, especialy pre-1980 products, including Japanese, fit the usual audio definition of "vintage". Yes, and '63 Chey Impalas as well split-window Corvettes, not to mention Duesenbergs and Bugattis.

    Speaking of high prices for the the aforementioned audio icons, their current day prices relect the snobbish, exclusivist attitude of well-heeled collectors out to impress their friends much more than their performance by present-day standards. (Melvin, of course you are an original owner hence not an exclusivist snob.)

    For the price of a very good vintage/classic McIntosh C22 preamp, around $3000, you can buy a mint McIntosh C2200, (yes, tubes), of current production; (there is one of each on Audiogon right now). I doubt the latter's performance gives up anything to the former, (to say the least), and it is far more flexible and user-friendly, (can you say balanced outputs and remote control?). Check out both of them here ...
    http://www.berners.ch/McIntosh/en/Frame_McIntosh.htm

    The above is an interesting comparison in that the two McIntosh were made by the same firm with a continuous history, unlike Marantz. (Albeit the company is now owned by the D&M Holding that happens to be also the present owner of the Marantz brand.)

    When we discuss vintage are we discussing which is better ? Certainly the C2200 is an improvement . Tube equipment has evolved as much as everything else. The issue is vintage. The McIntosh C22 and the Marantz 7C were considered to be the two best pre-amps of their time. Not so the C2200.

    The Japanese has never manufactured what one would consider the " best " not in audio or cars. Snob are not , one might want to want classic as well as vintage audio.
    A feeling of owning something that was the finest of it's time. A 1954 Mercedes Gullwing 300SL , or a pair of Marantz model 9's.

    You can buy a 2005 Mercedes 500SL for much less than the Gullwing Mercedes , and the newer car has superior performance. Both made by the same company. There are those that would appreciate the older car and those that might not, is audio any different ?
  • 12-23-2007, 02:53 PM
    markw
    Many people are quite happy with their 63 Chevy coupes and don't need a split-window vette to feel worthwhile. They enjoy it for what it is. But, if the 'vette owners must look down their noses at them in order to feel superior, I'd say that points to a lack of self-esteem on their part.

    It's funny, though, how they all get along well auto shows, with no snobbish attitudes, simply enjoying the camaraderie of like minded hobbyists that can appreciate each for it's own contribution to the genre.
  • 12-23-2007, 04:15 PM
    emaidel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by melvin walker
    . Saul Marantz
    the founder of Marantz , never built a receiver. .


    Not so. The model 18, introduced in 1967 (a full year late, and at a price $100 higher than originally planned) was a stunner.
  • 12-25-2007, 03:25 AM
    thekid
    I think we are geting bogged down in semantics. Vintage is usually a term used to describe the age of something not its quality. In lot of states DMV's will issue "Classic" license plates to ANY car more than 20 model years from the current date that does not mean collectors or enthusists consider all cars 20 years or older a "classic" and value it accordingly. I am perfectly happy to with Feanor's 1980 cutoff date here in the year 2007 but maybe not so in 2017.

    So I think audio experts and the re-sale market will determine who the winners and losers are over time and the term "vintage" will be used whenever a seller is trying to sell and it will be up to the buyer to know if it is a "classic" and worth the price......... :)
  • 12-28-2007, 04:50 PM
    squeegy200
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bubslewis
    Speaking of reel to reel tape decks, I have an old Akai reel to reel tape recorder from the late 70's. The unit still functions well. I have 2 old reels of recorded music from the same time frame, but that is all. Is it still possible to get new, virgin reel to reel blank tape? I can't imagine any manufacturer still producing reel to reel, since the demand must be miniscule.

    Bill

    From what I know, Quantegy was the last to produce fresh magnetic tape in the 7" or 10" formats. They purchased the equipment from the old Ampex factory and up until about a year ago was still producing tape. However, discussion on some of the other forums seems to indicate that Quantegy has discontinued operations. Supposedly talks were underway to revive the operation.

    Does anyone know if they actually began making tape once again?
  • 12-28-2007, 05:07 PM
    squeegy200
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by melvin walker
    T.......Receivers solved a problem , they took up less space and was cheaper than separates.Separates had better sound and was more flexable. No audiophile would dare buy a receiver. I don't think that has changed.....

    That's quite a generalist statement. I know quite a few enthusiasts that I would consider "audiophile" that possess receivers. One in particular has budget to own just about anything available and owned at least two MAC 1700 receivers.

    I recently refurbished one example for him. My humble opinion is it sounded spectacular when I recently drove a pair of legendary Dahlquist DQ-10s using this old vintage receiver. (The original DQ-10s were originally engineered by Jon Dahlquist but were commissioned by Saul Marantz)

    I think receivers of this caliber would hold their own against many "high-end" separates.
  • 12-29-2007, 07:42 AM
    royphil345
    Some of the more powerful Marantz solid-states are very collectable and sound fantastic. Problem is that they're getting old enough to almost definitely require a rebuild and the parts count is crazy. Probably wouldn't be easy or cheap to find someone willing to do it right. Still... the market price is pretty high for the higher-end models in unrestored condition.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Marantz-2275-Rec...QQcmdZViewItem

    http://cgi.ebay.com/MARANTZ-2325-STE...QQcmdZViewItem

    Anything that sells for that much when it almost definitely needs some work, I would definitely consider vintage, classic and collectable.

    The lower-end 15 watt per channel solid-state receiver that's old enough to require some work is a tougher sell though...