• 10-09-2009, 06:52 AM
    3LB
    Obama gets Nobel Peace Prize
    Just to show how far behind I am with regards to public officials, I read today that Obama has been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize...for what exactly I have no clue.

    I know why other sitting Presidents have won it. I know why they give out the Peace Prize...but I have no idea why they gave it to Obama...what major strides has he made in his foreign policies that would warrant such a distinction? I know he's made a lot of speeches and promises during his campaign...hell, the guy has only been in office 9 months. Does a guy only have to promise change, or should he have to deliver first? So far he's maintained status quo, home and abroad.

    Hell, if all it took were words, Both Bushes would have one of these things.

    What am I missing?
  • 10-09-2009, 10:25 AM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 3LB
    Just to show how far behind I am with regards to public officials, I read today that Obama has been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize...for what exactly I have no clue.

    I know why other sitting Presidents have won it. I know why they give out the Peace Prize...but I have no idea why they gave it to Obama...what major strides has he made in his foreign policies that would warrant such a distinction? I know he's made a lot of speeches and promises during his campaign...hell, the guy has only been in office 9 months. Does a guy only have to promise change, or should he have to deliver first? So far he's maintained status quo, home and abroad.

    Hell, if all it took were words, Both Bushes would have one of these things.

    What am I missing?

    No sorry, Neither Bushes would have qualified.

    Here is their official answer as to why:

    Members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee said their choice could be seen as an early vote of confidence in Obama intended to build global support for his policies. They lauded the change in global mood wrought by Obama's calls for peace and cooperation, and praised his pledges to reduce the world stock of nuclear arms, ease American conflicts with Muslim nations and strengthen the U.S. role in combating climate change.


    This is why neither of the Bushes would win.

    Glad to see your joy in him winning the award.....

    I would challenge folks to not second guess the committee, and just be happy he won. Unless your a hater........
  • 10-09-2009, 10:33 AM
    Feanor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 3LB
    Just to show how far behind I am with regards to public officials, I read today that Obama has been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize...for what exactly I have no clue.

    I know why other sitting Presidents have won it. I know why they give out the Peace Prize...but I have no idea why they gave it to Obama...what major strides has he made in his foreign policies that would warrant such a distinction? I know he's made a lot of speeches and promises during his campaign...hell, the guy has only been in office 9 months. Does a guy only have to promise change, or should he have to deliver first? So far he's maintained status quo, home and abroad.

    Hell, if all it took were words, Both Bushes would have one of these things.

    What am I missing?

    A Nobel prize committee member answered that question: Obama got it to encourage willingness to talk to anyone, or as Obama put it, "to shank the hands of those who will unclench their fists", (or whatever exact words). This might be just rhetoric but it is a far cry from Bush/Cheney rhetoric.

    As Mohamed ElBaradei, Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), and a Peace Prize winner himself, said this morning on CNN, in effect, "We are making progress with Iran after six wasted years".
  • 10-09-2009, 11:03 AM
    3LB
    OK, he's an American President...so?

    I find it odd that he's been given an award it usually takes years of achievement to recieve otherwise. Not saying anything about Obama's potential, just making the observation that giving away an award based on what someone says their gonna do seems like a cheapening of said award. I didn't mean to imply either Bush did anything to deseve a Peace Prize, but both made flowery speeches using words like peace, cooperation, et el, during their campaigns. When Carter was recognized, he had already had the leaders of Israel and Egypt sitting at the same table, signing treaties, plus his work in the SALT II treaty.

    Hell, why didn't Nixon get Nobel Prize for his foreign policies, based on what might be considered positive, like opening talks with China, or the SALT 1 treaty. Sure, I know about Nixon etc, but I think you get the point. These are actual, tangible accomplishments.

    I'll repeat, this is not an indictment on Obama's ability or potential. It just seems a tad premature...its like giving the Jonas Brothers a lifetime achievment Grammy. I've never heard of rewarding potential.
  • 10-09-2009, 11:11 AM
    Feanor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 3LB
    OK, he's an American President...so?

    I find it odd that he's been given an award it usually takes years of achievement to recieve otherwise. Not saying anything about Obama's potential, just making the observation that giving away an award based on what someone says their gonna do seems like a cheapening of said award. I didn't mean to imply either Bush did anything to deseve a Peace Prize, but both made flowery speeches using words like peace, cooperation, et el, during their campaigns. When Carter was recognized, he had already had the leaders of Israel and Egypt sitting at the same table, signing treaties, plus his work in the SALT II treaty.

    Hell, why didn't Nixon get Nobel Prize for his foreign policies, based on what might be considered positive, like opening talks with China, or the SALT 1 treaty. Sure, I know about Nixon etc, but I think you get the point. These are actual, tangible accomplishments.

    I'll repeat, this is not an indictment on Obama's ability or potential. It just seems a tad premature...its like giving the Jonas Brothers a lifetime achievment Grammy. I've never heard of rewarding potential.

    Everything you say is quite true.

    I think maybe the Prize Committee just what to signal the world how happy they are for the change in attitude of the U.S. Administration, and encourage the US and every nation go forward with that attitude.
  • 10-09-2009, 11:33 AM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor
    Everything you say is quite true.

    I think maybe the Prize Committee just what to signal the world how happy they are for the change in attitude of the U.S. Administration, and encourage the US and every nation go forward with that attitude.

    Bingo!

    Since it the committee choice, what right does anyone have to question it? They can award it for whatever reason they choose, whether its an accomplishment, or a change in world wide goodwill because of his efforts.

    The haters (Republicans), and the folks that are not getting things out of him they want (Palestinians and Iran) are of course going to balk at his getting the award.
  • 10-09-2009, 12:05 PM
    3LB
    It smells of symbolism over substance
    Well, I haven't voted a party line in decades, and I didn't vote for a single republican the last two elections, nor do I hate Obama. It is 'their' award and they can award it to whomever they choose (Yasser Arafat).

    Quote:

    They lauded the change in global mood wrought by Obama's calls for peace and cooperation, and praised his pledges to reduce the world stock of nuclear arms, ease American conflicts with Muslim nations

    So I guess almost counts in horseshoes, hand-grenades, and Nobel Prizes. Certainly, Obama's election might usher in an era of improved global perception of the U.S. Maybe this award may eventually pan out, who knows. I wonder why they took decades to recognize Jimmy Carter. And in hindsight, I'll bet they're really glad they never awarded such a thing to the likes of a Nixon or Clinton. Luckily for Carter, he never did anything to discredit himself months after taking office (reletively speaking), or decades after leaving office.


    Sounds like the committee has taken up our country's favorite passtime...cult of celebrity.
    -------------------------

    "We live in a soceity where the idea of what you are is more important than you actually being that" - Branford Marsallis
  • 10-09-2009, 12:12 PM
    Well, yes, but the nominations were during Obama's first week in office. If we're asking today (after 9 months), if this was premature, then certainly a week after being elected is a bit presumptuous all around. This is not a critique of what he has done domestically, and I'm sure he may do much more, but let's be honest, this prize wasn't earned.

    Now perhaps it's based on his senatorial record (certainly one of peace), but that isn't being mentioned anywhere. If I where Obama, I would politely refuse the award. Yes it would ruffle some feathers, but let's be honest, here, the War in Iraq is exactly the same, and the war in Afghanistan has been significantly escalated. He hasn't done much if anything to bring peace to Senegal, Somalia-Ethiopia-Eritrea, Sudan, Pakistan, Colombia, the Maghreb, Nigeria, India, and a host of other smaller conflicts. I'll grant that he defused the political stand-off with Iran, certainly more than a McCain-Palin presidency would have, thank god, but that's not enough in my book. And his flip-flopping on Honduras-Zelaya is an affront to peace on so many levels that it's shame.

    Yes, he inherited a mess from 8 miserable & failed years of Dubya-Cheney, but so far he's done zilch to alleviate the two worst examples of that failure: Iraq & Afghanistan. Yes, he's got great potential, but I completely agree with the critique that the award was given prematurely. This is the Nobel Peace prize, for pete's sake, and almost every conflict around the globe has escalated since he took office. Maybe he should have received another award, but not the Nobel Peace prize, at least not yet. If he pulls another Camp David type of accord, then we can revisit this....
  • 10-09-2009, 12:24 PM
    3LB
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FA
    I hope that they come to fruition in the future

    Oh certainly. I'm not one of those who'll wish for failure at every turn for the sake of party goals (talk about cutting off one's nose to spite one's face). Like I said above, I've never heard of rewarding potential before, in any endeavor. As has already been pointed out, this award was based on moods and pledges (the committee's words). So there were no better nominees - no one who has spent more than a few months towards the goal of world peace?
  • 10-09-2009, 12:45 PM
    This was funny:
    __________________

    Congratulations President Obama on the Nobel Peace Prize -- Now Please Earn it!
    Friday, October 9th, 2009

    Dear President Obama,

    How outstanding that you've been recognized today as a man of peace. Your swift, early pronouncements -- you will close Guantanamo, you will bring the troops home from Iraq, you want a nuclear weapon-free world, you admitted to the Iranians that we overthrew their democratically-elected president in 1953, you made that great speech to the Islamic world in Cairo, you've eliminated that useless term "The War on Terror," you've put an end to torture -- these have all made us and the rest of the world feel a bit more safe considering the disaster of the past eight years. In eight months you have done an about face and taken this country in a much more sane direction.

    But...

    The irony that you have been awarded this prize on the 2nd day of the ninth year of our War in Afghanistan is not lost on anyone. You are truly at a crossroads now. You can listen to the generals and expand the war (only to result in a far-too-predictable defeat) or you can declare Bush's Wars over, and bring all the troops home. Now. That's what a true man of peace would do.

    There is nothing wrong with you doing what the last guy failed to do -- capture the man or men responsible for the mass murder of 3,000 people on 9/11. BUT YOU CANNOT DO THAT WITH TANKS AND TROOPS. You are pursuing a criminal, not an army. You do not use a stick of dynamite to get rid of a mouse.

    The Taliban is another matter. That is a problem for the people of Afghanistan to resolve -- just as we did in 1776, the French did in 1789, the Cubans did in 1959, the Nicaraguans did in 1979 and the people of East Berlin did in 1989. One thing is certain through all revolutions by people who wish to be free -- they ultimately have to bring about that freedom themselves. Others can be supportive, but freedom can not be delivered from the front seat of someone else's Humvee.

    You have to end our involvement in Afghanistan now. If you don't, you'll have no choice but to return the prize to Oslo.

    Yours,
    Michael Moore
    MMFlint@aol.com
    MichaelMoore.com

    P.S. Your opposition has spent the morning attacking you for bringing such good will to this country. Why do they hate America so much? I get the feeling that if you found the cure for cancer this afternoon they'd be denouncing you for destroying free enterprise because cancer centers would have to close. There are those who say you've done nothing yet to deserve this award. As far as I'm concerned, the very fact that you've offered to walk into the minefield of hate and try to undo the irreparable damage the last president did is not only appreciated by me and millions of others, it is also an act of true bravery. That's why you got the prize. The whole world is depending on the U.S. -- and you -- to literally save this planet. Let's not let them down.
  • 10-09-2009, 01:45 PM
    ForeverAutumn
    In five years I fully intend to find a cure for something. Can I have my Nobel now?
  • 10-09-2009, 02:16 PM
    JohnMichael
    I would like to congratulate President Obama.
  • 10-09-2009, 03:18 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Wow, our President wins a prestigus award, and we have Americans who doubt he deserves it. Well, I guess everyone has their opinion, but I am glad they are not my friends or supporters. What a damn shame.....
  • 10-09-2009, 03:27 PM
    markw
    I'll bet Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson are turning over in their graves. They actually had to earn this prize, not just give good speeches and head a cult of personality.
  • 10-09-2009, 03:36 PM
    jvc
    You can call me a hater, because I am! He's done absolutely nothing to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. He's about made the dollar worthless, by printing billions of dollars, with nothing to back it up. He's trying to turn us into a socialist country. He's done nothing worthwhile since getting in office! (I'm a registered Democrat too)

    Don't try and say I'm a racist either. I don't hate him because he's black. I don't trust him, and he's not showing me any reasons to change my opinion of him. I would have voted for Andrew Young or Condoleezza Rice, but not him. The polls are showing that public opinion is changing about him, now that he's in office. People are finding out that they were wrong about him, and wishing they had voted different. Well, you wanted change. You certainly got it! But not all change is good................
  • 10-09-2009, 03:48 PM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Wow, our President wins a prestigus award, and we have Americans who doubt he deserves it. Well, I guess everyone has their opinion, but I am glad they are not my friends or supporters. What a damn shame.....



    I agree completely. Is it my imagination but I hear few people addressing him as President Obama? They speak of Obama or Barack Obama but rarely call him President. I have had hate and prejudice directed at me for much of my life. This enables me to recognize it when it is directed at others. Believe me their is more hate and prejudice in this country then most are willing to admit. Blessed be the peacemakers.
  • 10-09-2009, 03:59 PM
    markw
    By the same token,
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    I agree completely. Is it my imagination but I hear few people addressing him as President Obama? They speak of Obama or Barack Obama but rarely call him President. I have had hate and prejudice directed at me for much of my life. This enables me to recognize it when it is directed at others. Believe me their is more hate and prejudice in this country then most are willing to admit. Blessed be the peacemakers.

    You could say the same ting about some of his supporters as well.

    I can't ever recall "President" Bush's detractors using his title either. It was always just "Bush", or "Boosh" or something equally flattering.
  • 10-09-2009, 04:00 PM
    MarkW,

    Wasn't Woodrow Wilson the one who said that Birth of a Nation was a "lightrod of history-making, or some such nonsense?" And didn't Teddy Roosevelt kill off 1/4 of the male Philippino population? Hardly great peace-makers, if you ask me. Ironic you should mention them as bar-setters.

    JM, I understand your comment and I too have not often used "President Obama" in my posts, although that was probably more for brevity than prejudice. For the record, I never referred to Dubya as president either, after all, he was never elected.

    Bottom line, President Obama hasn't done anything near enough to earn a Nobel Peace prize, according to a number of polls already. I'll venture to say that this is the overwhelming sentiment in the US, right now. I really like the man, I really do, but I have to call a spade a spade, here.
  • 10-09-2009, 05:20 PM
    markw
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nightflier
    MarkW,

    Wasn't Woodrow Wilson the one who said that Birth of a Nation was a "lightrod of history-making, or some such nonsense?" And didn't Teddy Roosevelt kill off 1/4 of the male Philippino population? Hardly great peace-makers, if you ask me. Ironic you should mention them as bar-setters.

    You're as capable of reading up on what they did as I am. And, you can minimize their accomplishments and add whatever revisionist history you wish, but it doesn't change the fact thet they earned their nomination and award.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nightflier
    JM, I understand your comment and I too have not often used "President Obama" in my posts, although that was probably more for brevity than prejudice. For the record, I never referred to Dubya as president either, after all, he was never elected.

    Ah, I see you've now reconsidered your positions on the use of titles. As such. I'll reconsider mine when referencing the obamassiah.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nightflier
    Bottom line, President Obama hasn't done anything near enough to earn a Nobel Peace prize, according to a number of polls already. I'll venture to say that this is the overwhelming sentiment in the US, right now. I really like the man, I really do, but I have to call a spade a spade, here.

    That sounds like a thinly veiled racist remark to me. Did you giggle when you wrote that?
  • 10-09-2009, 06:24 PM
    3LB
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JM
    Is it my imagination but I hear few people addressing him as President Obama? They speak of Obama or Barack Obama but rarely call him President.

    Oh no...I was referring to that other Obama guy...:rolleyes:


    Quite common that people in the U.S. eschew titles when addressing public figures. I mentioned a slew of ex-Preses above, who by rights still carriers the title President. I rarely ever heard anyone refer to the last three or four sitting presidents by their title.

    Perhaps you are tad sensative in the area of discrimination. Like most have said, its a bit premature to give Obama a Nobel Prize when his goals have yet to come to fruition. May he prove us all short-sighted.
  • 10-09-2009, 06:38 PM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nightflier
    MarkW,

    I really like the man, I really do, but I have to call a spade a spade, here.



    MarkW I was also troubled by the duality of that phrase. Yes there are the references to calling a black person a spade. There is also calling something as it is. My Krell is a Krell. If a duck walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck. I have to call a shovel a shovel. I am not sure if the prejudice came from saying the phrase or asking if you giggled while using it.
  • 10-09-2009, 06:53 PM
    3LB
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by markw
    I'll bet Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson are turning over in their graves. They actually had to earn this prize, not just give good speeches and head a cult of personality.

    Well, I mentioned Carter above...the man has been one of the most civically active ex-presidents that I can remember. He was active in middle-east peace accords and nuclear arms limitation talks in an era when such things seemed foolhardy or even pointless (in this country). He appointed many minorities to high positions during hi stenure as Governor of Georgia and as pres. He continues to work as a public figure both home and abroad. He's been a de facto embassador over the last two decades.

    He was finally awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002, which the committee basically did to reognize a lifetime commitment to civil rights, international peace, and economic development both domestic and abroad. Most people veiw his presidency as a failure because of the Iran-hostage crisis, turning over the Panama Canal, giving amnesty to draft dodgers, printing billions of dollars during a recession...his domestic policies did suck, but I'm sure the Nobel committee doesn't take such things into consideration. From a world perspective, the dude made great strides.
  • 10-09-2009, 06:55 PM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 3LB
    Oh no...I was referring to that other Obama guy...:rolleyes:


    Perhaps you are tad sensative in the area of discrimination.





    Yes I am a little more than a tad sensitive to discrimination. Do you remember during his travels during the primaries when he was cheered by countries that used to protest against people from the US. He is willing to talk and find solutions that benefit others instead of being a war lord like that last President. I enjoy respecting the office and the man holding it once again.
  • 10-09-2009, 07:58 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jvc
    You can call me a hater, because I am! He's done absolutely nothing to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. He's about made the dollar worthless, by printing billions of dollars, with nothing to back it up. He's trying to turn us into a socialist country. He's done nothing worthwhile since getting in office! (I'm a registered Democrat too)

    Oh boy, either you have rocks in your head, or just air. Sorry, but the dollar was worthless before he took office. The previous President printed more worthless money by far than the current one. The bailout was a continuation of the previous President's actions. If you call keeping our banking system from failing socialism, then you don't know what socialism is. If you call saving the automobile industry socialist, then you obviously support having twice as many people out of work as we have now. He cannot turn poor policies dated back to the Reagan years (trickle down economics) in nine months, and anyone expecting him to do so is....well could I use the words stupid?

    Quote:

    Don't try and say I'm a racist either. I don't hate him because he's black. I don't trust him, and he's not showing me any reasons to change my opinion of him. I would have voted for Andrew Young or Condoleezza Rice, but not him. The polls are showing that public opinion is changing about him, now that he's in office. People are finding out that they were wrong about him, and wishing they had voted different. Well, you wanted change. You certainly got it! But not all change is good................
    Wow, Condo? She had 8 years to do something, and she was as miserable a failure as her boss. During her tenure, our relationship and reputation with the world turn to ****. The students at Stanford where my son used to go have sure given her a earful on what she has done. Andrew Young? Jimmy Carter had to ask him to resign after he secretly met with leaders of the PLO - what was considered a terrorist group. I am sure the Jews in Israel love him for saying they were..how do I want to say this.... stubborn and intransigent. This is something you say in private, not on meet the press on Sunday morning. The most notable thing he has done is played a leading role in advancing a settlement in Zimbabwe with Robert Mugabe and Joshua Nkomo. Mugabe a known racist and hater of white people, killed thousands of gays, took land from white landowners without paying them for it, and has interfered with national democratic elections from day one. Oooooooo...great company Mr. Young kept.


    You sure can tell alot about a person based on who they support.


    If you don't see...no..if you cannot see that this world thinks differently about America because of the way this President has conducted himself on the world stage, that is your business. But obviously those five committee members see things quite differently, and this is their award and they can chose to give it to whomever they want, and for whatever reason they want. You don't have a say, except your opinion. He accepted the award, so the hate is irrelevant and a waste of time.

    A democrat knocking down another democrat. This is why democrats where in the minority for so long. Nine months, and he is supposed to fix every problem in the world. Good grief......
  • 10-09-2009, 08:06 PM
    Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    Yes I am a little more than a tad focking sensitive to discrimination. Do you remember during his travels during the primaries when he was cheered by countries that used to protest against people from the US. He is willing to talk and find solutions that benefit others instead of being a war lord like that last President. I enjoy respecting the office and the man holding it once again.

    Some of us Americans think we are the world. So they don't care that world opinion has changed when it comes to how America is perceived globally. It is all about how they feel. Such a small box to live in.....