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  1. #1
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    Where's RGA? Audio Note Japan...

    ...you never mentioned they make their own speakers - the "Ruthys" look interesting...

    It seems A.N./U.K. borrows from others (turntables, speakers, amps), while A.N. Japan makes things from scratch (preamps, amps, speakers)... not sure, though. AN Japan speakers have their wookworking done in the US.

    Interesting... Kondo San...

    Who makes the carts for the tables? In house?

  2. #2
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy C
    ...you never mentioned they make their own speakers - the "Ruthys" look interesting...

    It seems A.N./U.K. borrows from others (turntables, speakers, amps), while A.N. Japan makes things from scratch (preamps, amps, speakers)... not sure, though. AN Japan speakers have their wookworking done in the US.

    Interesting... Kondo San...

    Who makes the carts for the tables? In house?
    No this is a misconception. AN started as an amp manufacturer and Kondo made the legendary Ongaku and Gaku On. AN UK designed in house transformers, the DAC's which Kondo has since copied, AN UK makes their own top of the line turntable the TT3 which has replaced the Voyd Refernece they own the rights to. AN UK is a 30 or so man operation -- and Andy Grove has designed much of the new stuff including the DACs, the Kegon, etc.

    Most all companies outsource given things -- such as transports - But AN when they don;t make it go out and get the very best available from what is available and when it isn;t available they make it themselves -- like Transformers which many other top end amp makers purchase from AN. Cartridges on the lower end decks are modified for AN by Goldring and the TT1 and TT2 arms are from Rega Research.

    The Snell speakers were based off of 1940 cabinet shapes by Leo L Beranek -- Snell added the Wave guide system. AN basically took that changed the ports, got rid of the ferro fluid cooling which slugged the sound are using much better drivers and you basically have a given Snell with an additiopn of 25hz a much more open sounding treble and other than cabinet may as well be totally different speakers -- just as the AN E/D is totally different from the AN E/Spe. Systemdek tables (TT1 and TT2) AN created entirely different motors for them and turned the Voyd into a tri-motor set-up.

    Audio Note Japan and UK both make the products and Peter is the one who decided which ones were good and which were not worth it.



    In response to Mr. Kondo’s posting of January 16, 2000, I would like to put his comments into the following perspective.
    Mr. Kondo and I worked together for nearly 20 years and during this time we both benefited enormously from each other’s skills, knowledge and understanding. I have learnt a lot from Kondo-san and I hope that in a quiet moment he also appreciates my love of music, commitment to excellence and unyielding support. Our collaboration worked very well for many years, but as in many relationships, business or otherwise, the parties develop in different directions. I wanted to continue to pursue sound quality through further exploration of the single-ended output stage and all manners transformer coupling.
    Mr. Kondo felt in contrast and I believe still feels, as he showed a push-pull 2A3 amplifier at the London High End Show in September 1999. Firstly that the push pull triode output stage can somehow be developed to marshal a return to superiority and secondly that transformers only belong in the output stage of power amplifiers. I always considered this an abandonment of our basic principles and since Kondo-san never presented me with any push pull prototype that proved to be better than any of the SE amplifiers he made, so I have stuck to my views.

    The financial crisis in South East Asia in late 1997 polarised these two divergent philosophies, which then became emotionally and commercially incompatible and Mr. Kondo decided to break off our collaboration and we parted our ways.
    It is never easy to break up after so many years and especially when it also involves a high profile brand, even more so in an industry infested with rumourmongers, hacks and carpet baggers.

    After a brief legal argument Audio Note™ UK Ltd. retained the rights to the brand name registration and Mr. Kondo is now selling his amplifiers under the name Kondo™. The reasons for ANUK retaining the brand name registration are as obvious as they are logical,

    1.) The value in the name was created solely and exclusively by Audio Note UK’s and my personal investment. Kondo-san took no part in the financial, strategic or commercial risks involved in building the brand name recognition.

    2.) Registering a company under the name Audio Note in Japan does not in itself give the rights to a brand, only the hard work and expense building it is what makes it known and worthwhile, emotional attachment alone accounts for little in the real world. Since the product strategy, investment and most of the concepts were formulated in the UK with Kondo-san co-operating willingly, happily going along for the ride, for as long as the annual rewards were always on the increase. There was no-one crying foul then.

    3.) In the end equation is it really so surprising that the brand name stays with the investor, I would have thought that this was normal practice, just ask anyone with money to invest about this and they will tell you the same.
    Therefore there is no question of “stealing” the brand name, intellectually, morally or otherwise so I think we should leave Rossini’s masterpiece out of the discussion, attractive as the emotional connections may be.

    Now to elaborate with a bit of history.
    Since 1990 there were two Audio Note companies, one of which developed and produced its own products under the name Audio Note in the UK and which also specified and distributed Audio Note Japans products and the original company in Japan.
    It is important to note here that it was ANUK who decided which products from AN-J should be marketed outside Japan, and the voice you hear in products like the ONGAKU, GAKU-ON, KEGON and M10 is a mixture of Kondo-san’s and mine. These combination of these two voices are inseparable in these products and was decided upon by myself, and as a result I often deemed many of Mr. Kondo’s products not suitable for wider distribution, much to his considerable chagrin. A fact that undoubtedly contributed to his hostile behaviour during our negotiations in late 1997 and early 1998 and to building his deeply aggrieved attitude later.

    The original agreement was that ANUK would develop the more commercial part of the Audio Note product line (Levels Zero to Three). In addition ANUK should develop a product range complimentary to the Japanese products, capable of displaying their qualities and also provide an overall development platform for improving the concept of music reproduction shared by Kondo-san and I at the time.
    With an investment over 7 years of well over one million pounds, ANUK went ahead and largely fulfilled its obligations under the agreement (which incidentally ran out in 1995 without being renewed and might I ad without much further discussion about brand name, strategy or new terms of contract).

    As a small example, in early 1994 ANUK even paid to send an engineer to Japan to teach and train AN-J staff in quality control procedures, product consistency and layout (amongst other matters showing them how to get the power supply quiet enough to remove the feedback from the ONGAKU). Techniques and concepts that did not at the time exist in any measure at the AN-J factory, one of many such small investments that helped make the AN-J products more saleable.

    From late 1993 I kept Kondo-san very busy building NEIRO’s, ONGAKU’s, GAKU-ON’s, M10’s etc., but by mid-1997 the emerging financial crisis in South East Asia started dramatically slowing sales. So for the first time in our relationship Kondo-san and I had to face the fact that sales were plummeting and orders to Japan would have to be reduced immediately otherwise overstock would kill our joint cash flow very quickly (these products are expensive to build).

    Kondo-san absolutely refused to face up to this fact and make the necessary adjustments to his overheads. So instead of dealing with the problem himself and seek our co-operation to minimise the damage, Mr. Kondo pushed the entire responsibility on to ANUK’s shoulders by demanding that we “fulfil our obligation”. This was in his view that we should buy a minimum of what he could produce to keep staff and turnover regardless of whether we could sell it or not, in other words, ANUK owed him a living regardless of market conditions.
    This I in turn refused to do, so stalemate ensued.
    Until April 1998 when Kondo-san with complete disregard of all practical facts, our entire history together, all past understandings and with no consultation or prior warning whatsoever gave a UK company, PM Components Ltd., all rights to distributing his products. This in itself was bad enough, considering how the market for these products had been developed, but to add insult to injury and in direct conflict with our common interests (and with ill concealed malicious intent, I now believe). Mr. Kondo also licensed PM to use the Audio Note™ brand name whilst renouncing our use of it, completely disregarding the following facts,

    a.) Turnover wise AN-J was very much the junior partner in the relationship, despite its longer history, and ANUK represented at least 80% of AN-J’s turnover.

    b.) His ill-considered, irresponsible and callously one-sided action put the 30 or so jobs at ANUK in jeopardy by creating great uncertainty about the brand’s long term future. In addition to that putting 1000’s of our customers’ investments in our products in question through a potential loss of warranty and service back-up should ANUK fail as a result of his actions. ANUK’s turnover at its peak in 1997 was well over £ 4,000,000.00 and that represents a lot of customers’ investments in the future. How can he single-handedly decide to attempt to scrap that?

    c.) The reality was and is that whilst the brand name originated in Japan, the ownership of the brand name had long since passed to ANUK through the way the original agreement was structured and the fact that the brand name recognition was paid for and created solely through ANUK efforts.

    d.) PM Components had no experience in this sector of the market, a sector solely created by ANUK.

    Interestingly and surprisingly, it appears that the terms granted PM were substantially less severe than what Kondo-san had demanded of ANUK in order to renew our agreement. One can only wonder why?
    When you add the above up, I did what anyone else in my position would do, in order to protect our employees jobs, our customers and our own investment and ANUK’s future, I sued AN-J and PM. We soon won the first round, an injunction preventing AN-J from giving a licence to the name to PM effectively blocking its use.

    So since it was Kondo-san who broke our co-operation and made the decision to venture out on his own, what is he so aggrieved and resentful about? Let me give you a brief analysis for your consideration.

    1.) Without ANUK’s involvement in 1990, he would still have a small company in Japan, making high quality audio products. He still has, what happened from 1990 to 1997 were in the most part due to my efforts not his, so any profits or experience he has gained as a result should be considered a benefit, not a disadvantage.

    2.) He is not longer travelling to shows that I pay for, showing demonstration amplifiers that I also finance. True, because to do this he needs to work within the framework of my strategy and concepts, using my money and my contacts built up over 20 years of selling quality music reproduction equipment. But this was his own choice, so why am I being blamed?

    3.) He would have been unknown to most audiophiles because contrary to his own internal beliefs, Kondo-san became famous through my staff’s, our distributors’ and my efforts to put him in the limelight and explain our joint philosophy to the world. In this regard we gave Kondo-san a head start not many in the audio industry have had the benefit of, how can he be unhappy with that? His decision to leave the partnership has done all the damage necessary and nowhere has this been more clearly demonstrated than what has happened to our joint reputation, as a result, our time has been spent on damage limitation and thinking up new products.

    4.) So now all he is having to do is what I did when we started seriously promoting Audio Note in the late 1980’s, start with an unknown brand name (Kondo) and build it to fame and fortune himself. Still without the drawback of complete obscurity (testament to our success putting Kondo-san in the limelight is the fact that you read his posting and that you are reading this now). The clock has been turned back to 1989, due in no small part to Kondo-sans own inability to act responsibly, logically and with respect for other peoples efforts, commitment, time and money.

    All in all, misplaced anger and aggression rarely gets you anywhere, hard work generally does. So do what I did with the ONGAKU and our other products, go out, demonstrate your products successfully enough to be able to convince people to part with their money and show people that your products are as good as you believe they are.
    Regardless of what anyone may think, I would like Kondo-san to do well, partly because I genuinely believe he deserves to, but partly also for more selfish reasons, who else is there out there to compete with at the very leading edge of audio technology?
    Nothing drives you better forward than the hot breath of a benign, likeminded, but pursuing competitor!

    I truly cherish the prospect of a genuine intellectual and practical competition with Kondo-san over whose creativity, ideas and skills result in the products with the best sound quality. In my opinion such a competition is in everybody’s interest and should benefit the knowledge base and debate generally. As a starting shot I am gratified to see that Mr. Kondo has adopted my suggestion of 1993, in his new d/a converter, of removing the over sampling and digital filters and replacing them with a simple analogue filter. I regard this new Kondo product a great recognition of the idea, so thank you for that Kondo-san!

    There will always be some of you who prefer a different dynamic balance to the voice that my products speak with, so there is room for us all and if you are in the market for the best, both Kondo-sans and my products should definitely be on your shortlist.
    This requires Mr. Kondo to stop wasting his time slandering and back stabbing ANUK and strictly concentrate on spending his time promoting his new products instead, which is more fun, more profitable and more positive anyway!

    At the end of the day it is worth remembering that the treasure does not belong to the one who says he knows where it is buried, but to the one who invests in looking for it and as a result eventually finds it.

    A simple truth, this particularly applies to anyone who claims that I usurped their “idea” of the over sampling free digital filter less DAC, as Justin Benn claims in his follow-up to Kondo-sans posting. This practice has, for your information, been around since the very first CD-players in 1982, so anyone who thinks this was their idea will have had to have been up mighty early, another severe case of sour grapes if you pardon my saying so.

    The first Sony 16Bit machines used no over sampling or digital filters with a brick wall analogue filter, it sounded terrible. The novelty of our idea is to configure the analogue filter such that it does as little damage to the signal as possible.

    I welcome debate on this and other matters.

    Peter Qvortrup
    Audio Note UK Ltd
    18.01.2000
    (thread at http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?...up&r=&session=)


    Incidentally the new Dacs use no filters at all.

  3. #3
    RGA
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  4. #4
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Just out of interest my friend, do you use a writing/speaking software? I mean, i type bloddy fast already but you write books in here. We should do a word count overall on all post! As far as the AN thing goes, i am not saying a word.

    Cheers

    Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  5. #5
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    Well, since you...

    bothered to provide all that info, I actually read it. As a result, I didn't have time to go to work today :^)

    He sounds a bit bitter, eh? Provided there aren't two or three sides to the story, I suppose I would be put off as well.

    It seems Japan products are even harder to find than U.K... I guess if you're spending the big bucks, you would have to seek THEM out. Not even sure they are sold here.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Just out of interest my friend, do you use a writing/speaking software? I mean, i type bloddy fast already but you write books in here. We should do a word count overall on all post! As far as the AN thing goes, i am not saying a word.

    Cheers

    Flo
    I agree about the length. Maybe I have ADD or I am not that interested in the continuing commercials for AN but I can not read the entire thing. Nothing personal RGA.
    JohnMichael
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  7. #7
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    I agree about the length. Maybe I have ADD or I am not that interested in the continuing commercials for AN but I can not read the entire thing. Nothing personal RGA.
    You have to admit, he's very thorough.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  8. #8
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Yeah, but its too long and quite repetative i can't read all of that either. Nothing personal either.

    -Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  9. #9
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    You have to admit, he's very thorough.
    I would call it blathering.
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  10. #10
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    I would call it blathering.
    LOL, he is passionate about his choice of components. I respect him for that. But I understand your sentiments. LOLOL
    Sir Terrence

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  11. #11
    RGA
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  12. #12
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    As someone noted to me -- Audio Note is a different kind of company to most in that -- No one SELLS Audio Note -- People BUY it. Which is why Peter and Kondo for that matter do very very well without any real NEED to advertise.
    They do advertise sometimes but most of their stuff is stupidly expensive (like Apogee, Genesis, Avalon) that the people who seek these kinds of components know where to look. I spend 8Grand on a speaker without even seriously listening to it. I heard a tune for 5 minutes and knew that i would one day own the speaker. Well, i don't own that model but one 3 times the size now
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  13. #13
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Now isn't this a switch!

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    This was all in a thread about AN and thus would have only been of interest to people inquiring about Audio Note products --- which is why if you're not interested why read.
    How many threads have been accosted by your Audio Note drivel....uncounted.
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  14. #14
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    You could search the sql database for entrys with more than 5 times the word AudioNote and see how many where started by RGA to get the results
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  15. #15
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    I could do that....

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    You could search the sql database for entrys with more than 5 times the word AudioNote and see how many where started by RGA to get the results
    But then my computer would explode. Perhaps there's an AN antivirus software?
    Audio;
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    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
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    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  16. #16
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    But then my computer would explode. Perhaps there's an AN antivirus software?
    HAHA, thats funny! You could write a script that will chnage the word Audionote to a blank or replace it with a picture.

    -Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  17. #17
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    HAHA, thats funny! You could write a script that will chnage the word Audionote to a blank or replace it with a picture.

    -Flo
    Perhaps we can change all Audio Note references to;

    http://www.wavcentral.com/sounds/mov...c/jurass06.mp3
    Last edited by Geoffcin; 10-06-2005 at 05:12 PM.
    Audio;
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    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
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    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  18. #18
    RGA
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  19. #19
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    At least Audio Note is currently making NEW production speakers - uunlike some other recommendations by some other posters.
    Who cares, there are companys that build 25 year old speakers and still hold the world reference titles. There are speakers even less known than AN and to my ears are better. I recommend what i like and heard. The trouble that some users see know (after i left) is that your basic recomendation is always AN And the endless writing.

    You seem to have the same trouble of accepting that some people dont give a rats ass about AN then i have accepting that someone can talk trash about planar speakers.

    -Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  20. #20
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Funny Title too!

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Ohh you mean when someone says " please recommend a speaker that works close to walls and goes for ~$2k then people like you dump on me for making a suggestions?

    As a moderator you should know that this is a place where people ask for advice -- don't like my advice don't take it.

    The tiotle of this thread was "Where's RGA? Audio Note Japan..."

    Not "where is Geoffcin" and why is he even posting to this thread. Obviously you cared enough to see what was happening in this thread -- as are many judging by the numbers of views. At least Audio Note is currently making NEW production speakers - uunlike some other recommendations by some other posters.
    People like me don't dump. We hold it in until the right thread comes along....like this one!

    People ask for advice here? No kidding! To bad this thread got hijacked. Oh well, at least it didn't get hijacked by Audio Note inanity for once.

    Yes, Geoffcin is a caring guy, why else would I post to this thread? As the hit count increases I am sure that people are really interested to see how much more I can care.
    I'm sorry to have to let them all down, as I don't care that much anymore.
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  21. #21
    RGA
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  23. #23
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    world reference titles

    What the hell are you talking about -- WHO calls what speakers this. You're the ONLY person that calls these world reference -- most people I know who've heard them gee sure as hell didn't want them.
    I'll think about AN (speakers) once they reach the realm of Genesis, Alon, Apogee, Odeon, MG20.1, Avalon and some others

    Mr. Corey Greenberg
    Mr Robert Harley
    Martin Colloms, Ken Kessler(owns 2) & John Atkinson
    ANTHONY H. CORDESMAN

    to name a few. All of which have systems in a higher realm than those who review a mdf box with a 2000$ amp
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  24. #24
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Ahh well I understand if I owned the Mag 3.6 and the HCA I would be bitter too that I bought what magazines told me too. One day.
    Your funny! Those Maggies beat the living crap out of your AudioNote in every single regard. Why don't you see that most people on this site do not care for AN?

    Never mind, i am gettig stressed again. Someday your ears may open
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

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