What would you do? Klipsch Vs. Monitor Audio

[atomicAdam]

Perhaps I'll be convinced!

Even something like getting Blue Jean Cable interconnects - if that sounds better for you - than that is a better system pairing. If the new amp sounds better for you - that would be a better system pairing. So - don't be.

The more you learn about how your system sounds - or a component - the wiser a choice you'll make when putting something else in the chain. That, is system pairing.

[bobsticks]

So again, I'm not sure what I learned. Does the problem reside in my amp, or my speakers (I don't think it's my room, but who knows)? I guess I did learn that it's possible to sound good at pretty high volume levels on some of the particular songs I have issues with.

Yes, you learned that the issue does not lie in the source material which was fairly predictable.

Until you run some decent Class A current through the Klipschs you're not going to know if they're even capable of the clarity and resolution at high volumes that you seek. That, however, seems o be irrelevant since you've announced your intentions to remain with a receiver.

[mcbr1]

Yes, you learned that the issue does not lie in the source material which was fairly predictable.

Until you run some decent Class A current through the Klipschs you're not going to know if they're even capable of the clarity and resolution at high volumes that you seek. That, however, seems o be irrelevant since you've announced your intentions to remain with a receiver.

And what Class A amplification am I going to find that's even remotely within my basically nonexistant budget? And I'll need 5 channels of said Class A amplifiication. And a processor/preamp. See why I'm thinking receiver?

One of the things I have been thinking about is future expandability. Many units in my price range offer a set of pre-amp outputs that appear to be intended for a second zone - could I use them to run a seperate amp for my front channels in multi-channel or for 2-channel?

Sorry for veering from speakers!

[bobsticks]

And what Class A amplification am I going to find that's even remotely within my basically nonexistant budget? And I'll need 5 channels of said Class A amplifiication. And a processor/preamp. See why I'm thinking receiver?

One of the things I have been thinking about is future expandability. Many units in my price range offer a set of pre-amp outputs that appear to be intended for a second zone - could I use them to run a seperate amp for my front channels in multi-channel or for 2-channel?

Sorry for veering from speakers!

Don't be sorry for looking at all options. The process of finding and forming the right system for your preferences, needs, and room is usually a process of elimination. Much as you found out that your source material is not the issue, we need to find out what else is not the issue.

I never suggested that you buy any Class A amps, I suggested that you audition it. Only by determining if your speakers will perform up to your standards under optimal conditions can it be known if they'll perform in conditiond that are less so.

The tighter the budget the more important it is to know exactly what it is one is trying to improve.

[bobsticks]

...and, yes, preamp outs are designed specifically to add additional amplification into the chain...but, again, there's no point in buying a new receiver with the idea of adding additional amps down the road if the speakers you have won't meet your expectations under any conditions.

[RGA]

Okay I re-read what you're trying to do and it seems to me that the Klipsch's are having a difficult time at higher levels which seems odd to me since they generally outpound their competition - but in truth I've never really pushed the Reference series as I generally don't listen at very loud levels. Horns can become a little in your face and at one time, not sure if they still do, Klipsch did not not match their efficiency in drivers so the treble would really jump out in front which gave them a great sense of immediacy but also becomes tiring if not positioned to account for it. But I didn't hear this with the newer Klipsch models that I heard with some older mid-fi examples in the late 80s early 90s.

But let's say that the Klipsch is the problem. Then I would generally try to find a slightly more balanced loudspeaker - it's tough in the under $1k price range because most speakers to me are either bright or boring. I generally would avoid speakers that are tying to market fancy drivers - if they talk endlessly about their metal tweeter or supposed state of the art woofer. Most of the time they're beaten by boring old paper and silk dome - and that's often true at $50,000 let alone $500 IME.

I would seriously consider something like the Wharfedale Diamond series and they have a floorstander that is something like $995US. The floorstander was really very good at this price and according to Wharfedale is happy with just 20 watts so while not super sensitive at ~88db it does imply an easy load. They were one of the two best budget speakers under $1k I heard at CES 2010 - the other is a small standmount so not really worth mentioning.

Still no matter what speaker there are compromises you have to be willing to accept and in general you have to accept more compromises at lower end of the price spectrum.

Still worth a listen: http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/News/tab...3/Default.aspx

The Diamond series

[Mr Peabody]

If you are wanting to add an amp down the road to a receiver you want preamp outs for all five channels. The 2nd zone won't help for adding an amp for the main channels.

[dvjorge]

I have used Yamaha, Denon, Klipsch and MA.
I will give my opinion.
Yamaha (older than 2007) / bright.
Denon /neutral
Klipsch/ bright
MA/neutral
I still use a pair of Monitor Audio Silver S2 with and old Sansui AU -517. The sound is awesome !!
There was a time rich Japaneses only wanted Lexus and Sansui systems !
Jorge.

[mcbr1]

Okay I re-read what you're trying to do and it seems to me that the Klipsch's are having a difficult time at higher levels which seems odd to me since they generally outpound their competition - but in truth I've never really pushed the Reference series as I generally don't listen at very loud levels. Horns can become a little in your face and at one time, not sure if they still do, Klipsch did not not match their efficiency in drivers so the treble would really jump out in front which gave them a great sense of immediacy but also becomes tiring if not positioned to account for it. But I didn't hear this with the newer Klipsch models that I heard with some older mid-fi examples in the late 80s early 90s.

But let's say that the Klipsch is the problem. Then I would generally try to find a slightly more balanced loudspeaker - it's tough in the under $1k price range because most speakers to me are either bright or boring. I generally would avoid speakers that are tying to market fancy drivers - if they talk endlessly about their metal tweeter or supposed state of the art woofer. Most of the time they're beaten by boring old paper and silk dome - and that's often true at $50,000 let alone $500 IME.

I would seriously consider something like the Wharfedale Diamond series and they have a floorstander that is something like $995US. The floorstander was really very good at this price and according to Wharfedale is happy with just 20 watts so while not super sensitive at ~88db it does imply an easy load. They were one of the two best budget speakers under $1k I heard at CES 2010 - the other is a small standmount so not really worth mentioning.

Still no matter what speaker there are compromises you have to be willing to accept and in general you have to accept more compromises at lower end of the price spectrum.

Still worth a listen: http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/News/tab...3/Default.aspx

The Diamond series

I would like to have a listen to the new Diamond series. The 10.1s have received really great reviews. Like Monitor Audio, though, I don't know of anywhere near me to listen to them.

[mcbr1]

If you are wanting to add an amp down the road to a receiver you want preamp outs for all five channels. The 2nd zone won't help for adding an amp for the main channels.

I was afraid if this. The Yamaha RX-V667 seems to be the lowest priced unit with a full complement of preamp outs and it's $150 above my (nonexistant) budget.

[mcbr1]

I have used Yamaha, Denon, Klipsch and MA.
I will give my opinion.
Yamaha (older than 2007) / bright.
Denon /neutral
Klipsch/ bright
MA/neutral
I still use a pair of Monitor Audio Silver S2 with and old Sansui AU -517. The sound is awesome !!
There was a time rich Japaneses only wanted Lexus and Sansui systems !
Jorge.

Good stuff - thanks! How would you rate the newer Yamahas on the warm/neutral/bright scale?

[dvjorge]

Good stuff - thanks! How would you rate the newer Yamahas on the warm/neutral/bright scale?

Yamaha is cutting high in the new models. The high frecuency tone control is only 5 db max. The older models were 10 db. I think the new models are neutral toward to the bright side but not as bright as the older models.
Jorge.

[mcbr1]

I was afraid if this. The Yamaha RX-V667 seems to be the lowest priced unit with a full complement of preamp outs and it's $150 above my (nonexistant) budget.

I've recently seen the 667 for $499 with a free set of Polk Monitor 40 speakers. I don't have any real use for the speakers, but I could do some experimenting to see if I can locate the problem and/or sell them. I'm just a bit gun shy that the Yamaha might still be too bright compared to the Denon AVR 1911, with my speakers.

[Mr Peabody]

I really don't think the brightness that offends you is the Yamaha's fault.

[mcbr1]

I really don't think the brightness that offends you is the Yamaha's fault.

Probably true, but bright on top of bright equals ouch! while neutral to warm on top of bright equals tolerable. Hopefully.

[bobsticks]

Probably true, but bright on top of bright equals ouch! while neutral to warm on top of bright equals tolerable. Hopefully.

But it still won't equal coherency in reproduction for strident, complex material...

[mcbr1]

But it still won't equal coherency in reproduction for strident, complex material...

I think you are probably right. I've resigned myself to that fact that this will be a longer term upgrade path and the the Klipsches are never going to give me what I'm looking for - I've just tired of their sound. Well, at least with any amplification that I'm likely to ever own!

Upgrading my receiver first makes most sense to me, as I'm currently missing HDMI connections and I'd like to get a Blu Ray player at some point. I also think the sound of the current crop of AV receivers in multi-channel mode has really come along way in the 10 years since mine was produced, and I can get a better amplifier section. Starting from the ground level will also allow me to do a better job of system matching as I go, and I may get better sound out of what I've got in the mean-time.

Current contenders:

Yamaha RX-V667 - $499 @ Newegg with free Polk speakers (pre-amp outs!)
Onkyo TX-SR608 - $399 @ Crutchfield but out of stock (feature rich!)
Denon AVR 1911 - $399 @ Crutchfield (Sound, HD radio, iPod connectivity)
Denon AVR 891 - $499 @ Fry's (Power!)

Cheers!