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What are the most overrated speaker brands, IYO?
Maybe "overrated" is too strong a word, how about heard a brand name speaker and thought afterwards, "What's the big deal?" Here are mine:
-Martin Logan: nice looking, but weak, almost non-existent low range/bass
-Mirage Omnisats: still has the tinny, home-theater-in-a-box sound
-Boston Acoustics: too bright, sounds like treble and mids are turned up too high
-Bose: gee, do you guys have all afternoon?
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I'll second the Martin Login's. I listened to the $8K a pair set and was not impressed for that kind of cash.
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M&K. I listened to this guy drone on and on how studios use M&K, all the while thiinking if I had to work in one of those studios, I'd quit my job.
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I'll also agree with both ML and Bose...
Logan's definitely seem to be an acquired taste, but to those that like them, they tend to *love* them...
They are my brother-in-law's favorite speakers... When I heard several of their higher priced models (in a couple different stores, no less) they always left me cold. I guess it just comes down to personal taste.
In the case of Bose, the less said the better...
For some reason, I also have never been able to enjoy Polk speakers... Again, I am sure that it is just my own tastes, and not that Polks are "bad" speakers, per se.
---Dave
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Of course I'll agree with Bose, but I'll also agree with M&K. It's been 5 years and I'm STILL waiting to hear an M&K speaker that sounds good.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Widowmaker
Maybe "overrated" is too strong a word, how about heard a brand name speaker and thought afterwards, "What's the big deal?" Here are mine:
-Martin Logan: nice looking, but weak, almost non-existent low range/bass
-Mirage Omnisats: still has the tinny, home-theater-in-a-box sound
-Boston Acoustics: too bright, sounds like treble and mids are turned up too high
-Bose: gee, do you guys have all afternoon?
I have to agree with your list ESP.....Bose.
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Bose. Then the second list.
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I think many of the overrated brands are from many of the very high end companies that are no longer in business in 2-3 years because their products while may sounding very good, are often times only small fraction of a hair better (in the eyes of reviewers who are getting their advertising dollars) but are so far overpriced that once the "buzz" wears off, the company goes belly up. And as an owner, your depreciation is very substantial very quickly.
And yes, Bose sucks, and as a former owner, I can readily admit this. However, their resale value is quite good (thanks eBay!).
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I've always had a beef with Definitive Technology...but they're not as overrated as Bose.
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Orbs
Those darn Orbs I keep hearing about- just bustin' your chops, Hershon! haha!!
The Bang & Olefson speakers don't do too much for me. At their price, I would expect them to be absolutely amazing!
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The "B" word, obviously.
I've actually heard the B&O Beosystem 5 on a number of ocassions and have always came away very impressed, although I'll admit most of their line is more show than go.
M&K definitely makes the list.
I can see how people would put DefTech here and indeed, I don't particularly care for their sound either (great subs tho :)). However, I wouldn't neccessarily say they were "overrated" as their prices aren't in the stratosphere and for what they specialize in, which is building bi-polar speakers they are quite good at it.
I think some B&W's (the 700's) and Paradigms (Monitor line) are overrated. Regardless of what the press says, IME better speakers can be had at the respective price points.
Vandersteen simply baffles me. Here is a company that has serious cred in the hi-end arena and yet their speakers leave me completely cold. Same with Sonus Faber. Both are the epitome of "laid back" with the SF's throwing in a good deal of color for good measure. The SF's are beautiful to be sure, but it seems like the considerable coin that you have to shell out pays more for the cabinetry and lineage than the sound quality.
I would consider just about any speaker over $25K to be overrated, truth be told. There comes a point where diminishing returns comes seriously into play and this price point seems to be about it. Actually, a very good argument could be made that $5K is the breaking point. This is not to say the Grand Utopia Be's ($80K) or VR11se's ($160k) aren't great speakers; they are. They are simply not 3 to 7 times better than...oh...say a WP7.
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Well obviously the "B". I think M&K is awsome in a dedicated THX Home Theater. Not for music, but for a crrectly placed HT they are it for me. Another one is B&W for me and also B&O..... i also think that Infinity is overrated. They were awsome back in the day, but not there new ones.
-Flo
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Just in my limited exposure, probably Wilson Audio. I listened to the Wilson Sophias, and could not believe that those things cost $10k+. The sound was okay, but at least 5x overpriced for what it delivered. For all the hype and positive press that Wilson has accumulated in recent years, that listening was very disappointing.
And going back several years, I thought the Apogee full range ribbon speakers were also vastly overrated. Almost unanimous acclaim from the audiophile press, yet to my ears they just drained the life out of almost all non-classical music.
Bose is not overrated, so much as overexposed, overpriced, and overly promoted. Their bookshelf speakers are okay for what they are, but most of their other products are way overpriced for the performance that they deliver. Same can be said for Bang & Olufsen.
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I think that a lot has to do with the rooms, electronics and type of music. For instance, the Wilsons require a special setup procedure which they use "WASP" and the Apogee's are one of the most critical speakers of our time. Only a handfull of AMPS can drive the FR or the Scintilla. Also moving them by an inch has a huge effect on the sound. Same with the Wilsons. Most speakers need to be heard at home, in order to sound good.
-Flo
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Totally disagree about the M&K's I am listening to them right now between news breaks and they sound terrific. They don't sound quite as good as my home system, but they are damn good in their own right. The must be properly setup and calibrated to sound their best.
I believe that any speaker that costs $10,000 for a pair is a rip off. It doesn't take that kind of money to make a pair of excellent sounding speakers.
The speaker that I thought sounded terrible(but it measure very well) was the Wilson WATT speaker. It sounded dry as powder, etchy and clinical. Not worth the money.
Planar and ribbon speakers are also very overrated to me. They measure terribly, and you can hear it. For those who own these kinds of speakers, this is not a dig. Different strokes for different folks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Well obviously the "B". I think M&K is awsome in a dedicated THX Home Theater. Not for music, but for a crrectly placed HT they are it for me. Another one is B&W for me and also B&O..... i also think that Infinity is overrated. They were awsome back in the day, but not there new ones.
-Flo
So they would sound different in a non THX HT?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shokhead
So they would sound different in a non THX HT?
Well the THX program discusses positioning and room treatments. M&K speakers have a very limited vertical dispersion but a large horizontal one. If you do not setup the speakers correctly and use the wrong crossover frequencys (depending on Ultra, Non Ultra select etc) than yes they will sound differently at the listening position.
-Flo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
I believe that any speaker that costs $10,000 for a pair is a rip off. It doesn't take that kind of money to make a pair of excellent sounding speakers.
Amen to that!!!
But, for anyone with $10,000 to spend on speakers, I've got a set you've GOT to listen to... :D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
I think that a lot has to do with the rooms, electronics and type of music. For instance, the Wilsons require a special setup procedure which they use "WASP" and the Apogee's are one of the most critical speakers of our time. Only a handfull of AMPS can drive the FR or the Scintilla. Also moving them by an inch has a huge effect on the sound. Same with the Wilsons. Most speakers need to be heard at home, in order to sound good.
-Flo
You can make the setup argument for just about any speaker. I just think the Wilsons that I listened simply did not measure up to their lofty price tag. These speakers were in a treated demo room with Theta Dreadnoughts driving them, and I was using a 96/24 DAD of Gershwin pieces as the source. The guys at that particular store are meticulous about how they setup their demo sets, so I doubt the setup is at issue. That store only picked up Wilson after Dunlavy went out of business, and IMO the Dunlavys represented a much better value at that price point.
The Apogees were setup in a store where a friend of mine worked, so we tweaked and moved and did all sorts of different listenings with them. We tried them with Audio Research monoblocks, tube preamps, hybrid amps, Haflers, Carvers, SAEs, and even receivers. The results were consistently underwhelming to my ears. Fine with classical, but play something with percussion and amplified instruments and it was slumber time. I also spent a lot of time with the Carver Amazings, which were a hybrid ribbon design, and those sounded far better IMO. Given how many people piled over one another to praise the Apogees back in the day, that's why they epitomize my personal definition of overrated.
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Every single piece that you have mentioned with not work on the Scinitlla. They are a 0.88ohm to 1ohm impedance. If you have bridged them to 4ohm that you loose all the magic of the speaker. Also there is no tube amp that can drive the Scintilla for longer than a couple of minutes. You need Krell (big ones), ML or Ice H2O AMPs to drive them. Now while the Wilson is discussable for me, the Apogee's are not. Every single person that has heard the Scintilla or owned one that you can read about state that it is closest to the real thing that is possible. Dynamics, bass etc.. are no issue with these speakers. Also i asume the room was treated, which is another huge issue with Apogge's since they need refective surfaces.
-Flo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Well obviously the "B". I think M&K is awsome in a dedicated THX Home Theater. Not for music, but for a crrectly placed HT they are it for me. Another one is B&W for me and also B&O..... i also think that Infinity is overrated. They were awsome back in the day, but not there new ones.
-Flo
I agree completely. One of the nicest sounding Home Theater setups that I've ever heard was an M&K system setup to THX standards. LIke you, I don't believe this setup would be good for music but it was dynamite for HT.
One of the topics that comes up from time to time around here is THX and whether or not it is "worth it". As far as buying a THX receiver just because of the certification, I say no. But I also make the point that you've made here... that in order for THX to be truly appreciated you have to do more, much more, than just buy an isolated piece of THX equipment. It is a synergy of equipment, placement, room, etc... so that the whole is greater than the sum of all its parts.
I even agree with you about Infinity -- they were something back in the day.
Q
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Every single piece that you have mentioned with not work on the Scinitlla. They are a 0.88ohm to 1ohm impedance. If you have bridged them to 4ohm that you loose all the magic of the speaker. Also there is no tube amp that can drive the Scintilla for longer than a couple of minutes. You need Krell (big ones), ML or Ice H2O AMPs to drive them. Now while the Wilson is discussable for me, the Apogee's are not. Every single person that has heard the Scintilla or owned one that you can read about state that it is closest to the real thing that is possible. Dynamics, bass etc.. are no issue with these speakers. Also i asume the room was treated, which is another huge issue with Apogge's since they need refective surfaces.
-Flo
The listenings at my friend's store were the ones where I knew about the amplification being used and the front end sources. The ones that I was listening to were the full-range ribbons and Duettas from the mid-80s (Apogee made more than just the Scintillas that you're about to acquire). And how would all of those amps not work with a set of Apogees? The Audio Research monoblocks of that era were perfectly capable of driving loads down to 1 ohm impedance, and none of the listenings I did even remotely came close to clipping. I'd also heard them at audio shows hooked into any number of different configurations. Again, consistently underwhelming playback to my ears.
Someone who praises the Apogees would likely have a preference for the type of sound that they deliver. I have no issue with that. But, given that this thread is about overrated speaker brands, that's my assessment when I weigh the amount of praise that they receive versus how I assessed them upon listening. You're making it sound like it's impossible not to like them, and coming up with any number of reasons why I have the opinion that I do. Even under the best of circumstances in the conditions that you prescribe, there's still the possibility that I simply won't like them then either. If you like them and praise them to high heaven, fine, but that doesn't mean that everybody shares that view.
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I loved the Apogee Duettas with Krell amplification. I like what I heard years ago of M&K's subs. Speakers are so dependent on room, power, front-end, and mood, don't you think it's hard to evaluate them without putting their best foot forward? How many of us can do that very often?
I agree with Woochifer: How can Bose speakers be overrated when no one who rates speakers, whether professional or not, seems to like them. The people who buy them are mostly sold by marketing; they generally aren't the ones likely to do evaluations. I'm not into bashing anyone's tastes or preferences, but I mistakenly went to a newsgroup about home audio when I meant to visit a pro one. I dropped in on a message that read, "Bose can sound good in a small room." The next comment was, "A toilet?" A little audio comedy can go a long way.
Ed
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I understand that and accept that, i just find it unacceptable that a company which made High End and defined the standards of that time is to be tossed in the same thread with BOSE or other speaker companys. Same as Wilson Audio. The next thing will properbly be Genesis and the Infinity IRS too just because they cost an arm and a leg.
-Flo
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No one has mentioned the venerable Klipsch? I know a number of shops in my area that dropped Klipsch as a product line. One salesman claimed it was because they couldn't compete with Paradigm and B&W on the showfloor. I just think they shot themselves in the foot when the put entry level stuff in Best Buy. At least Yamaha is wise enough to maintain two "different" reciever lines for marketing purposes, one for stereo shops, one for Best Buy, ect.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
No one has mentioned the venerable Klipsch? I know a number of shops in my area that dropped Klipsch as a product line. One salesman claimed it was because they couldn't compete with Paradigm and B&W on the showfloor. I just think they shot themselves in the foot when the put entry level stuff in Best Buy. At least Yamaha is wise enough to maintain two "different" reciever lines for marketing purposes, one for stereo shops, one for Best Buy, ect.
Klipsch makes some very special loudspeaker which sing beautifully with tubes. But unfortunatly most stores you regualr equipment like Sony, Denon, Onkyo etc.. or B&K which dont match good with them. I like the Cornwalls, which another member owns in the gallery. They are very dynamic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
I understand that and accept that, i just find it unacceptable that a company which made High End and defined the standards of that time is to be tossed in the same thread with BOSE or other speaker companys. Same as Wilson Audio. The next thing will properbly be Genesis and the Infinity IRS too just because they cost an arm and a leg.
-Flo
Nah, I don't have anything against classes of speakers just because they cost a lot or have a particular design. I mean, the best speaker I've heard in recent years was the Dynaudio Evidence Master. $80,000 for a pair of speakers, and praised by just about everyone, but IMO not overrated for the sound that they delivered.
And at one of the audio shows I attended several years ago, I did get a chance to listen to the Infinity IRS -- easily the best of that or any other show from that era. Again, that was a speaker that lived up to its lofty expectations.
For this thread, I don't think that it's appropriate to include Bose anyway, because outside of Consumer Reports, I don't know anybody who rates them at the top of their class. Hard to be overrated, when not a whole lotta people rate them at the top to begin with.
Apogee and Wilson Audio get plenty of praise, and I just happened not to agree with it. The Dynaudio Evidence and Infinity IRS also get plenty of praise, and in those cases, I think it's well deserved.
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Thats exactly what i find so interesting, in two reviews of the Apogee Scintilla they were compared and voted better than the Infinity IRS. They were more dynamic, better integration and sounded more real than the Infinity. I realy do not understand your comments on the Apogee's in general since they are all quite different than what i have heard. You are the first person to describe the Apogee's in that way that, ever. I realy asume, and believe that the Apogee's you listend to where setup wrong, wrong electonics or something. Because your observation does not match anybody elses. Also the Dynaudio is definetly not woth 80K$!! The integration between the drivers in not seemless and has not the "airy" midrange that or the transient midrange to tweeter response from a Ribbon or electrostatic speaker. In my opinion, that is one of those totally overprized speaker systems of our time. They are awsome, but they dont sound like 80K and this is the reason why i add Dynaudio.
I think that we all made a mistake in saying "worst brands", we should have said "worst model". Because every company has its totally overpriced speakers.
-Flo
PS: As for overprized speakers i would add Apogee "The Grand" for 160K, Dynaudio Master for 130K (german price), Wilson Audio MaxII 180K, AN flagship 130K (i think) and the Martin Logan Statment E2 for 250K i think.
All of those systems are awsome, but very very expensive and in realtion to what they do "overprized".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
No one has mentioned the venerable Klipsch? I know a number of shops in my area that dropped Klipsch as a product line. One salesman claimed it was because they couldn't compete with Paradigm and B&W on the showfloor. I just think they shot themselves in the foot when the put entry level stuff in Best Buy. At least Yamaha is wise enough to maintain two "different" reciever lines for marketing purposes, one for stereo shops, one for Best Buy, ect.
I don't think Klipsch will make too many overrated lists because I think people generally know what their strengths and weaknesses are and freely acknowledge them. Their K-Horns have a huge legion of fans (myself included), but even the most ardent K-Horn fan will acknowledge its imperfections. The speakers that are asking for the "overrated" tag are probably the ones that more frequently get cited as reference speakers or the best in their class.
As much as I like the Dynaudio Evidence and see how often it's regarded as a near perfect speaker, I'm sure that others will regard them as overrated. Same thing goes for Wilson Audio, Vandersteen, Thiel, B&W, and others. I know people who feel that Vandersteen is the truest representation of sound out there, while others can't stand them. Even frequently cited value performers like Paradigm will have their detractors who will call them overrated.
And back to Klipsch, they are actually following Yamaha's two-tiered strategy. Basically, the Synergy series goes to Best Buy, while their Reference series and vintage products go to the specialty dealers. It's no different than how Yamaha distributes only the entry level receivers to mass merchants, and reserves their higher midlevel and flagship products for their specialty dealers.
I don't know if you can say that Klipsch can't compete with B&W and Paradigm, because they do (Klipsch claims to be the best selling specialty speaker brand). In fact, their efficiency puts them at an advantage in A/B comparisons because they will be 5-10 db higher. Retailers are very sensitive about who else carries the products that they sell, and Klipsch is treading a very fine line if they want to keep their dealer network intact. Yamaha's held their network together, but they have lost some stores in recent years. JBL's a case study in what not to do when a decision is made to go after mass market distribution. When they went mass market, they got dropped in droves (just in time for the Canadian companies to emerge and fill that market segment) and now it's pretty much only the mass merchants like BB that carry their products in the U.S.
Also keep in mind that Klipsch dropped a lot of their dealers last year because they caught those stores reselling speakers to unauthorized mail order/internet vendors.
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Not to turn this into a Apogee Scintilla thread, but this is a quote from a Stereophile reivew.
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But, don't think the Scintillas are the speaker that will make every audiophile's life a bed of roses. No speaker is more demanding of the right setup. The Scintillas are the ideal speaker for Indiana Jones: you don't just buy a speaker, you begin an adventure. You must be willing to acquire the right electronics to drive this speaker (at 1-ohm), you must be willing to get the right cables (which last month's issue should make you realize is work), you may have to screw endlessly with VTA-and on top of all that you'll need one hell of a lot of patience, and maybe a new listening room! Few speakers can sound worse in the face of determined ignorance. With the wrong electronics and positioning, the Scintillas can easily degenerate into producing an unnatural sound, ending up as little more than a high end curiosity.
They also are not going to be easy to audition adequately outside of your home. The speakers weighs 140Ibs each, and they require far more space and care than most dealers can afford to provide. Even in the best dealer showroom I know of - and I cheerfully admit to a horrendous bias and conflict of interest based on the fact that Bobby Taylor of Excalibur Audio is a close personal friend - the Scintillas are demonstrated at a level of performance that only roughly approximates how well they sound in my living room. Most dealers will either have to sell them on their looks (splendid!) or on the pure technology
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Thats exactly what i find so interesting, in two reviews of the Apogee Scintilla they were compared and voted better than the Infinity IRS. They were more dynamic, better integration and sounded more real than the Infinity. I realy do not understand your comments on the Apogee's in general since they are all quite different than what i have heard. You are the first person to describe the Apogee's in that way that, ever. I realy asume, and believe that the Apogee's you listend to where setup wrong, wrong electonics or something. Because your observation does not match anybody elses.
And I think this is where you are getting off track. You are presuming why I don't like the Apogees (I have not heard the Scintillas, so I cannot comment on that particular model) as if it's impossible not to like them. Sorry, but for the type of listening that I do, they did not fit. And the opinions that you're drawing from are mostly people who own the speakers or are big fans of them. The Apogees have been discontinued since the mid-90s, so not a whole lot of people with a less emotionally attached viewpoint have been able to hear them recently.
It does not matter if you found a couple of reviews that praised the Scintillas more than the Infinity IRS -- again, those are OPINIONS. I heard the Apogee full range and the IRS at the same audio show (using different electronics and in different rooms), and for my listening, it wasn't even close. The IRS happened to fit my preferences, while the Apogees did not, and consistently left me scratching my head as to what all the hype was about. If you say it's all in the electronics, then how come every Apogee setup at a high end audio show and at the store where my friend worked gave me the same impression?
I'm not faulting anyone for enjoying the Apogees or any other ribbon speaker for that matter. It's just that in all my listenings, I've only liked one ribbon speaker and that happened to be a hybrid model with a dynamic subwoofer. Other speakers with ribbon tweeters I've also liked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Also the Dynaudio is definetly not woth 80K$!! The integration between the drivers in not seemless and has not the "airy" midrange that or the transient midrange to tweeter response from a Ribbon or electrostatic speaker. In my opinion, that is one of those totally overprized speaker systems of our time. They are awsome, but they dont sound like 80K and this is the reason why i add Dynaudio.
In a large room, the Evidence Master was about as close to a perfect rendering from top to bottom as I have ever heard. It added a new dimension of listening and revealed new details from all of my test discs, with no audible flaws. I cannot say this about any other speaker that I have heard in the last decade. All of the planar and panel speakers that I've heard recently had audible flaws or inconsistencies of some kind, but that applies to all other speakers that I've heard as well.
I'm not going to spend $80,000 of a pair of speakers, but at least the Evidence Master can make a case for itself IMO.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer
In a large room, the Evidence Master was about as close to a perfect rendering from top to bottom as I have ever heard. It added a new dimension of listening and revealed new details from all of my test discs, with no audible flaws. I cannot say this about any other speaker that I have heard in the last decade. All of the planar and panel speakers that I've heard recently had audible flaws or inconsistencies of some kind, but that applies to all other speakers that I've heard as well.
I'm not going to spend $80,000 of a pair of speakers, but at least the Evidence Master can make a case for itself IMO.
Thats what i disagree on, the Dynaudio does not have a almost perfect integration of the drivers nor does it reveal more information from the source. Nor are they worth the 80000$ that they ask for them, nor do they make a case for themselves being worth 80K. The Dynaudio is not neutral and has a tendency to sound warm and friendly from my experience with them. The Apogee is about as neutral as one can get, wich again brings me to the crossovers and the modular box design of the master. The Master only has one advantage in my book, and that is that they are relatively easy to setup in most rooms as to where the Apogee's, SoundLab's, Magnepan's or other panel speakers are a lot more difficult. There are only a few true reference speakers in my book and that is the Scintilla, FR (not heard yet), MG20.1, Sound Labs Ultimate and the Genesis 1.1 speaker system.
I think we can agree on the point that we disagree. I seriously dont think that the Master is worth anywhere near the 80000$ asking price, and you think that the Apogee's are overprized. But then again all the Apogee's modells exept the Grand series were affordable, while the Master or Wilson are not.
-Flo
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Most seems to have the same crap list,what about best bang for the buck speakers?
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This entire thread is absolutly pointless and does not help anyone, no matter how hard we try. Everyone hears different, and what i fnd GODLIKE other people just wont. Lets talk about all the new subscribers that are causing trouble in the forums and gallerys.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
I think we can agree on the point that we disagree. I seriously dont think that the Master is worth anywhere near the 80000$ asking price, and you think that the Apogee's are overprized. But then again all the Apogee's modells exept the Grand series were affordable, while the Master or Wilson are not.o
I think something's getting lost in the translation. Wasn't this thread about "overrated" speaker brands?
My comments about Wilson and Apogee were about my listening impressions of those speakers relative to the amount of hype and praise that they receive. The Apogees in their era were some of the most widely acclaimed speakers out there. In my listenings, I simply failed to see the merit of that acclaim, which is why I've long regarded them as overrated. I'm not saying that they're bad speakers, only that in my opinion they don't measure up to the greatness that their proponents claim.
Wilson Audio currently gets the same kind of praise and attention, and based on my listening of the Sophias, I don't think they warrant all the praise that they get either.
I've already said my piece about the Dynaudio Evidence. If it lives up to the hype and high expectations, then it's not overrated IMO, not matter how high the price might be. The Evidence Master might well be overpriced, but it's definitely not overrated.
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First let me say that you cannot base your decision on the worst brands on 1 or two speakers out of their entire range. Secondly, the Master is overhyped and there is no question about it. In my recent Audiophile magazine they received a 25 point rating which mould make it almost as good as the Apogee Studio Grand 27 points (mid Grand sereis) which many consider infirior to the Fullranges. The Scintilla was 10K and acording to this review is better or equal than the Master for 80K, which makes it in my book overhyped and overprized. There is no loss in translation. If you judge a company by 1 product, than i will do the same and herby consider Dynaudio as a overrated brand.
-Flo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
First let me say that you cannot base your decision on the worst brands on 1 or two speakers out of their entire range. Secondly, the Master is overhyped and there is no question about it. In my recent Audiophile magazine they received a 25 point rating which mould make it almost as good as the Apogee Studio Grand 27 points (mid Grand sereis) which many consider infirior to the Fullranges. The Scintilla was 10K and acording to this review is better or equal than the Master for 80K, which makes it in my book overhyped and overprized. There is no loss in translation. If you judge a company by 1 product, than i will do the same and herby consider Dynaudio as a overrated brand.
-Flo
Don't equipment reviewers in mags have opinions like we do? Comparing reviews that are months apart is not very informational. A side by side comparison with more than one opinion would be more credible to me.
I do not think any speaker is worth as much as a car, don't care what kind of engineering went into them. Do you really think there is more engineering and parts in a speaker than in a car? These are statement pieces, and I am not sure what statement you are making with a speaker that costs almost as much as a house, and more than a top of the line BMW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
First let me say that you cannot base your decision on the worst brands on 1 or two speakers out of their entire range. Secondly, the Master is overhyped and there is no question about it. In my recent Audiophile magazine they received a 25 point rating which mould make it almost as good as the Apogee Studio Grand 27 points (mid Grand sereis) which many consider infirior to the Fullranges. The Scintilla was 10K and acording to this review is better or equal than the Master for 80K, which makes it in my book overhyped and overprized. There is no loss in translation. If you judge a company by 1 product, than i will do the same and herby consider Dynaudio as a overrated brand.
-Flo
Secondly, the Master is overhyped and there is no question about it.
Hmmm, that's a pretty grandiose statement to make considering that in my listening they were about as good a listening as I have heard in the past 15 years. I've never had a comparably revelatory listening experience with any of the Apogee models I've heard (nor too many other speakers in my lifetime for that matter). "No question about it" -- are you somehow elevating your qualitative assessments into the factual rhelm?
It doesn't matter what audio magazine reviews you come up with to support your conclusions. If anything, it just adds to my case about Apogee being overrated, since you're just adding to the hype and the insistent voices that don't correspond to what I've heard in my listenings. The full range models and Duettas that I listened to at length in the mid-80s I regarded as overrated back then, and a new set of reviews does nothing to change that now.
And don't start putting words in my mouth. I've never mentioned Apogee as one of the "worst" brands. I wouldn't even call their speakers bad or mediocre. This thread was about "overrated", and comparing how the Apogees sound in my listenings with how highly they've been rated over the years, that's how I came up with my assessment.
Seems that you're letting your emotions get the better of yourself. You've placed your faith in the Apogees and will defend them to the very end. That's fine, but just don't expect that everybody will be a convert to your temple.
If you want to rate Dynaudio as overrated, I don't care either way. I don't own anything from them, and have no attachment to them one way or another. But, since you're all about rating a company based on their entire lineup, is that opinion of Dynaudio based on just the Evidence line, or does it also include their Audience, Contour, and Confidence lines? Or are you just putting Dynaudio on the overrated list because you somehow think that's a tit-for-tat response to my stated opinion? I would hope it's not the latter, because it would be quite childish if that was the case.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
This entire thread is absolutly pointless and does not help anyone, no matter how hard we try. Everyone hears different, and what i fnd GODLIKE other people just wont. Lets talk about all the new subscribers that are causing trouble in the forums and gallerys.
Whats up with that? Take a deep breath and calm down. :confused:
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