• 01-27-2007, 12:12 PM
    Florian
    Vibration controll on hard wooden floors?
    Hey buddys,

    i am looking for an idea to solve a problem. Now this is not meant as a joke and i really need some thoughts on this.

    My subs physically move the floorboards. And those vibrations make my midrange ribbon move a bit. I once solved a similar problem with my DIVAS by resting them on slate plates. But i cant move my speakers onto a slate plate cause they will touch the ceeiling otherwise. And i cant spike a 1300lb speaker either.

    Any ideas how to absorb the forces? :idea:
  • 01-27-2007, 12:41 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Do you have to use your subs as stands?
  • 01-27-2007, 12:55 PM
    Florian
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Do you have to use your subs as stands?

    Thats how its attached

    http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/086.JPG
  • 01-27-2007, 01:08 PM
    emorphien
    :lol:

    http://www.trygve.com/stereo1.jpg

    Anyway... I don't know what you'd want to put under them. Put big pieces of slate around them to hold the floor boards down :p
  • 01-27-2007, 01:23 PM
    Florian
    Thats the Treehouse guy/gay right?
  • 01-27-2007, 03:51 PM
    phillyguy
    Flo - 1300# / speaker! What is it's footprint? Depending on the span of your floor joists, you may only have 2 or 3 joists supporting both of your speakers. Be careful adding any more weight to them by adding slate slabs underneath, or you could easily overload your floor. You may want to have a structural engineer take a look at your floor framing under your system.
  • 01-27-2007, 04:36 PM
    Florian
    Yeah its 1350 or so punds per side. The footprint is about a square meter. Before i moved in i got it on paper that the floor can support the weight. They thought i was stupid for putting a 2700lbs Stereo System in my room, and maybe they where right.
  • 01-27-2007, 04:42 PM
    emorphien
    Yeah, they probably were. You're trying to pump out so much bass (and its so low) that I think you really would be crazy to not do some modifications to the room and the floor-structure itself. Particularly with that much weight in the room.

    How is the floor built, what is it built on?
  • 01-27-2007, 04:46 PM
    Florian
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by emorphien
    Yeah, they probably were. You're trying to pump out so much bass (and its so low) that I think you really would be crazy to not do some modifications to the room and the floor-structure itself. Particularly with that much weight in the room.

    How is the floor built, what is it built on?

    Well the house is made fully out of conrete, then they add some sort of noise dampening on the floor and lay hardwood floor panels ontop of that.

    -Flo
  • 01-27-2007, 04:49 PM
    emorphien
    What holds the panels down?


    (besides your stereo)
  • 01-27-2007, 05:00 PM
    hermanv
    Several questions; in the first photo it appears the speakers are sitting on top of the subs, IMHO a bad idea, also, can you explain the dolly with the casters? Was this a temporary tool to position the speakers? It confuses the issue for me since the casters will obviously do the exact opposite of spikes, but the picture is unclear.

    Those speakers would do better in a larger room, there's got to be early reflection problems with the ceiling that close even if they are dipoles.

    Short of that, maybe a rumble filter to reduce stuff below 10 Hz (yeah, I know all that money and then to filter out what was paid for)?

    The ultimate room treatment, keep the stereo, replace the house :).
  • 01-27-2007, 05:11 PM
    emorphien
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hermanv
    The ultimate room treatment, keep the stereo, replace the house :).

    Yeah, I doubt (or hope not at least) many of the people who purchased those speakers when they were new just tossed them in any old room.
  • 01-27-2007, 07:05 PM
    MikeyBC
    This might work...if you never move your speakers and your speakers are going to be in a permanent position why not cut out the hardwood flooring and subfloor then add a inlay of slate or some kind of tile anchored to the concrete directly...inlays can look quite tasteful if done right. just a thought:idea:
  • 01-27-2007, 09:02 PM
    jrhymeammo
    I do understand that your subs act as your stands, but I think you would need to build a custom stands for your panels. Modifying gears arent problem for you, but I have no idea how you can do that without altering your grands permantely..

    I understand that Grands are almost impossible to get a hold of.., but what's the point of owning them if they dont work out well in your room.
    Looks like Flo's gonna have to work for more porn sites so he can get a huge place.
  • 01-27-2007, 09:04 PM
    emorphien
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MikeyBC
    This might work...if you never move your speakers and your speakers are going to be in a permanent position why not cut out the hardwood flooring and subfloor then add a inlay of slate or some kind of tile anchored to the concrete directly...inlays can look quite tasteful if done right. just a thought:idea:

    Ooh I like this ideal. Slate (or some other material) inlayed and flush with the floor could look quite nice.
  • 01-28-2007, 03:52 AM
    Florian
    Hello guys. Here some info

    1. The Subwoofers are not Stands for the panel ;-)

    2. Dont forget that the Grand is made out of steel, the whole speaker!

    3. The wheels are attached so that you can lift the Grand up and move it around

    4. There is no vibration to the panel on a Stone surface, so the mounting system works very good.

    5. I know the room is a tad too small, its a 27x18 ft room. But it works suprisingly good.

    6. Room Acoustics are next, but i am not made out of money.

    7. The panel actually sits infront of the subwoofers. Ill try to get a better pic

    :-) :-)

    I will try
  • 01-28-2007, 06:47 AM
    thekid
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Florian
    Yeah its 1350 or so punds per side. The footprint is about a square meter. Before i moved in i got it on paper that the floor can support the weight. They thought i was stupid for putting a 2700lbs Stereo System in my room, and maybe they where right.

    Referencing another thread......

    And I'm moronic....... :)

    Seriously though having a little experience with a similar problem with a weight/flooring issue.

    You need to be real careful here because depending how well the concrete was poured and how other structural components are attached you might soon be dealing with bigger problems than some loose floorboards. They may be the first signs of a larger problem.
  • 01-28-2007, 07:50 AM
    Florian
    Kid,

    there is a difference between fine tuning a audio system in an end-realm-era or arguing over a 200$ sony subwoofer. The floor boards are not a structural problem, the qustion is how how to isolate a 1300lb speaker from a wooden floor. No more, and no less.

    -Flo
  • 01-28-2007, 08:31 AM
    thekid
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Florian
    Kid,

    there is a difference between fine tuning a audio system in an end-realm-era or arguing over a 200$ sony subwoofer. The floor boards are not a structural problem, the qustion is how how to isolate a 1300lb speaker from a wooden floor. No more, and no less.

    -Flo

    Agreed and I am not losing any sleep over it all kidding aside.
    While the floor boards are not structural,based on your description there may be some structural elements in play.

    My only point was to be absolutely sure your only problem is the loose floorboards. Some of the responses you recieved talked about anchoring things to the concrete or adding more weight to the floor. Putting that much weight in a small area is probably beyond what the original house designers intended. I have seen some instances where heavy industrial equipment was placed on concrete slabs which had minor defects undetectable to the human eye that through the continued use of the equipment cracked the slab it was supposedly designed to handle and it lead to other problems involving the rest of the structure. If your speakers do all that you say that they do, you could be damaging your house unknowingly when operating your equipment.

    At a recent home show a local A/V installer talked about how some of the high end equipment they install requires additional bracing and structural changes while the house is under construction so that they do not damage wall/floors etc after the equipment is installed and in use. While I am not familar with what they install I am pretty sure they are not dealing with the 1300lb speakers you have. If they are doing that with lesser gear I am sure yours presents some similar problems. Perhaps you have done all your homework here and your room can handle this much weight over such a small area or perhaps you are just bragging about your system I do not really care. There are probably people on this site (any structural engineers or members of the construction industry out there???) who know more about your particular problem. I would only caution you that this may go beyond an audio question/problem.
  • 01-28-2007, 08:37 AM
    Florian
    Thank you for your worries, but be ensured that there is no bragging involved here. This hobby is the same for me as it is for all others on this site. In my many years here, i have come across many many people so dont worry, i know my guys on this site :)

    Cheers
  • 01-28-2007, 05:21 PM
    phillyguy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Florian
    Yeah its 1350 or so punds per side. The footprint is about a square meter. Before i moved in i got it on paper that the floor can support the weight. They thought i was stupid for putting a 2700lbs Stereo System in my room, and maybe they where right.


    Great! You did exactly the right thing, had the owner look into it. They don't want their building damaged, any more than you. IMO, concrete is much better than say a wood framed floor. There is a lot of redundancy in a concrete structure, plus concrete has the ability to spead concentrated loads over a larger area due to its monolithic nature and transverse reinforcement. My guess is the weight of your speakers is likely crushing the damping material under the wood floor, causing the floor boards to flex and pop loose their anchorage to the floor.
  • 01-28-2007, 06:55 PM
    Luvin Da Blues
    Hi Florian

    Just adding my 2cents worth. I took a couple of structural courses in college.

    There are 2 forces at work here static forces (the dead weight of the speakers) and dynamic forces developed by the acoustical energy produced by the drivers. Although I'm not familiar with German building codes I don't think that seismic forces are considered there like they would be is say California (sounds strange when taking about speakers but considering the bottom end of yours). All buildings are designed somewhat for dynamic forces such as wind loading .

    One should consider the moment(torque) created by speaker placement due to the distance from the vertical support members(posts or bearing walls) and the connection type to this bearing point. Without knowing any of this It's kind of hard to access your specific situation. If in any doubt at all, you should consult a local structural engineer if this hasn't already been done.

    As far as damping the vibrations you will need to brace the floor from underneath which doesn't seem too practical. You may want to consider equipment isolators such as they put under emergency generators in buldings etc.
  • 01-28-2007, 08:26 PM
    Florian
    Thanks guys, i think i will try a fat stone platter with absorbers to decouple the speaker from the floor.

    Here is a pic that shows how the Grand is built. You set the bars of the panel into the steal sockets which then are welded to the steel frame and the poured iron base. So it actually rests on the floor :-)

    http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/..._onfly_php.jpg


  • 01-29-2007, 08:04 AM
    basite
    what's under the wooden part of the floor??? :ihih:

    keep them spinning,
    Bert.