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  1. #1
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    standmount selection

    need your help in selecting standmount from short list. Any information on any of the following would be much appreciated.

    associated equipment:
    Unison Research Unico
    Rotel RCD971 w/ MSB link III w/ upsampling
    speakers: ???? yet to be determined...

    Room is approx 14 x 11 with speakers on long wall. I want a speaker that will push its limits and then some in that room ... will eventually move to larger room

    Speaker Purchase Short List


    1. Epos M12 (old stock or used)
    2. Epos M12.2
    3. Reference 3A Dulcet
    4. Reference 3A DiCappo i (a bit expensive for me)
    5. Neat Petites
    6. GMA Europas (nowhere to test em)
    7. Von Schweikert VR-1 (nowhere to test em)

  2. #2
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    VR-1s

    I plan on ordering a pair of the VR-1s in a few weeks. I found a deealer in Connecticut who is gicing me a great price including the stands. He will also ship them to me, let me audtion for a week or two,a ndif I do not like them I can send them back. From what I have heard and read about them, they probably wont be going back.

  3. #3
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    That's a heckuva nice list of speakers you've listed, any of which should give you years of satisfaction. Have you tried contacting GMA or Kevin @ VSA (760-410-1650)
    for dealer's? GMA's dealer base is pretty small but VSA's is growing by leaps and bounds. I wouldn't buy anything without auditioning it first, although I'd hate for you to miss out on the VR1's, which is an exceptional speaker.

    Good luck in your quest and enjoy the journey.

  4. #4
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by loose
    need your help in selecting standmount from short list. Any information on any of the following would be much appreciated.

    associated equipment:
    Unison Research Unico
    Rotel RCD971 w/ MSB link III w/ upsampling
    speakers: ???? yet to be determined...

    Room is approx 14 x 11 with speakers on long wall. I want a speaker that will push its limits and then some in that room ... will eventually move to larger room

    Speaker Purchase ? Short List


    1. Epos M12 (old stock or used)
    2. Epos M12.2
    3. Reference 3A Dulcet
    4. Reference 3A DiCappo i (a bit expensive for me)
    5. Neat Petites
    6. GMA Europas (nowhere to test em)
    7. Von Schweikert VR-1 (nowhere to test em)
    I'd add Audio Note AN K/Spe($2300.00US), Dunaudio Audinece 52($1500.00US), PMC TB2 ($1500.00US), to your list. The K can be placed in corners.

    Expensive? In the long run if you buy the right speaker you won't buy another for 20 years. What;s an extra $1-2k in the big scheme of things.

  5. #5
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Some people just can't resist shilling

    Quote Originally Posted by loose
    need your help in selecting standmount from short list. Any information on any of the following would be much appreciated.

    Speaker Purchase ? Short List


    1. Epos M12 (old stock or used)
    2. Epos M12.2
    3. Reference 3A Dulcet
    4. Reference 3A DiCappo i (a bit expensive for me)
    5. Neat Petites
    6. GMA Europas (nowhere to test em)
    7. Von Schweikert VR-1 (nowhere to test em)
    I would take their post with a grain of salt.

    Your short list is pretty darn nice. The only experiance that I with these speakers is the Von Schweikert. I nearly bought the VR4jr, which is basically a VR1 sitting on top of a bass module. The VS impressed me with it's sound, and also I liked the way it was built. From your post it looks like you can't find a place to hear them though, so that's going to be a tough one. The Green Mountain boys have a hard core fan base, but I don't thin that the Europas will have the bass estension of the VR1's. GMA also offer a 200hr break-in, for only $150....What a bargain!
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  6. #6
    Canuck!
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    Of those, the only ones i have heard are the De Capo i and the Dulcet... the De Capo i is a far superior speaker than the Dulcet, and I'd recommend going for a used de capo over a new Dulcet if those are your options.

    Gershman Acoustics X-1/SW-1 / Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblocks / Edge Electronics Si-1m Preamplifier / Sony DVP-NC555ES Transport Modded Caps and Opamps / Pro-Ject Debut II with Shure M97xE / Carver TX-11 Tuner / SonoCable and Harmonic Tech Cabling / Monster Power HTS1000 MKII / Monster Power HTS3500 MKII / Audio Note AN-K/Spe / Radii MSKT88 Monoblocks / SonoSilence One / Akai Reference Master

  7. #7
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    I seem to remember the De Capo winning a bunch of awards.

    Quote Originally Posted by corwin99
    Of those, the only ones i have heard are the De Capo i and the Dulcet... the De Capo i is a far superior speaker than the Dulcet, and I'd recommend going for a used de capo over a new Dulcet if those are your options.
    There was quite a buzz about it a few years ago.
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  8. #8
    Canuck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    There was quite a buzz about it a few years ago.
    Yeah.. they're still quite popular... I only heard them in the last few months or so, and hope to hear the Royal Virtuoso soon (a friend purchased them recently), but at double the price of the De Capo i, and the only difference being the Corian Cabinet and a different tweeter.. it's pretty steep.

    Gershman Acoustics X-1/SW-1 / Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblocks / Edge Electronics Si-1m Preamplifier / Sony DVP-NC555ES Transport Modded Caps and Opamps / Pro-Ject Debut II with Shure M97xE / Carver TX-11 Tuner / SonoCable and Harmonic Tech Cabling / Monster Power HTS1000 MKII / Monster Power HTS3500 MKII / Audio Note AN-K/Spe / Radii MSKT88 Monoblocks / SonoSilence One / Akai Reference Master

  9. #9
    RGA
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    Reference 3a has had a buzz for more than a decade -- they used to go by the name 3a. Daniel Dehay brought the the 3a MM(or similar name) out as their entry level speaker for about $2kcdn and it was so popular it ruined them. 3a went under because they could not fill the deman -- they rushed them to offshore builders I believe and had QC problems.

    Dehay moved to a different part of Europe and said he would only sell his Royal master line and higher models. After awhile he was badgered by UHF magazine to bring back the original 3a for regular folks to afford. Learning from his mistakes Dehay agreed to run another entry level line and called it the MM De Capo (which is an opera term for encore I believe). Dehay set up shop in Canada for this line only. I heard them about 4 years ago and they blasted to the weeds most if not all of the stuff I was hearing. A rich deep soundstage and a wall of sound few standmounts could match -- very solid dynamically -- a little box noise and a bit overkill in the sound of the depth of the soundstage (distant) but the trade-off was fantastic.

    I was called a shill for continually touting Reference 3a MM De Capo -- well it's nice to know that I pick the BEST speakers to be called a shill for.

    Dehay retired though and the new stuff may or may not be as good...the new DeCapo has sharper sound in the treble --- depends what you like I'm not convinced it's better. Have not heard the Dulcet...bass may be light in bigger rooms.

    The De Capo needs lots of space...this was the speaker I had my sights set on and in the end I went with the Audio Note K speaker. These were my number 1 and 2 in this price range -- if you get the chance to listen to both side by side you should give it a try.

  10. #10
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    I still haven't heard the Reference 3A DeCappo i yet (or its predecessor, for that matter)...but from the sounds of it (no pun intended), looking for a used pair seems like the way to go.

    I have to say, i really liked the M12, but I don't know about availability. The 12.2 on the other hand, is readily available, but i'm not sure it's as good a speaker.

    the Neats are good sounding, but fairly pricey for me new as well. I think that the Neats outperform the M12 in most regards, but that's not to say it's perfect either.

    VR-1's get a lot of praise as well...and it seems as though there is a good number of people on here who feel the same way.

    Ohhhh...this decision is going to be difficult (and fun at the same time - i'm such a geek)

  11. #11
    RGA
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    Really it doesn;t matter what any of us like -- lots of people like stuff you may not -- reviewers like everything which I always wonder about since most stuff really isn;t very good in my view -- and some of it is very pricey.

    As you know you are seeing a lot of stuff that gets a lot of talk and it's the tip of the ice-berg really as this is one forum among many. I have listened to so many speakers over the years and yet there are so many I have not tried.

    This is the key -- all you really need to do is go to all the high end shops you can get yourself toand lsiten -- spend a few months get something you really love -- if it's out of your budget then --- WAIT. You gotta figure if you choose right it willlast you 20+years...otherwise you may end up spending more money in the long run replacing speakers.

    I didn't see that the speakers you listed were a short list -- a short list should be made up of speakers you've had extensive experience with - have a budget of course but really be open minded -- you never know what you may end up liking most.

  12. #12
    Canuck!
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    The De Capo was a little sharp in the treble from what I heard, but it was not to the point where it bothered me immediately... It was powered by a VAC Integrated.. not sure of model. I've never heard the AN's and the De Capo's side by side, but I've found the sound of AN's in general to be quite different from the De Capos I heard recently... both are excellent speakers though.

    Gershman Acoustics X-1/SW-1 / Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblocks / Edge Electronics Si-1m Preamplifier / Sony DVP-NC555ES Transport Modded Caps and Opamps / Pro-Ject Debut II with Shure M97xE / Carver TX-11 Tuner / SonoCable and Harmonic Tech Cabling / Monster Power HTS1000 MKII / Monster Power HTS3500 MKII / Audio Note AN-K/Spe / Radii MSKT88 Monoblocks / SonoSilence One / Akai Reference Master

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Really it doesn;t matter what any of us like -- lots of people like stuff you may not -- reviewers like everything which I always wonder about since most stuff really isn;t very good in my view -- and some of it is very pricey.

    As you know you are seeing a lot of stuff that gets a lot of talk and it's the tip of the ice-berg really as this is one forum among many. I have listened to so many speakers over the years and yet there are so many I have not tried.

    This is the key -- all you really need to do is go to all the high end shops you can get yourself toand lsiten -- spend a few months get something you really love -- if it's out of your budget then --- WAIT. You gotta figure if you choose right it willlast you 20+years...otherwise you may end up spending more money in the long run replacing speakers.

    I didn't see that the speakers you listed were a short list -- a short list should be made up of speakers you've had extensive experience with - have a budget of course but really be open minded -- you never know what you may end up liking most.

    Oh, believe me - i KNOW it's about what I like and not what others like (or else I'd just buy a pair of Paradigm Studio 40's and put an end to it all! hahah ~!)

    I've been playing with audio equipment for 20 years, but b/c of availability (or lack thereof) I wanted to get some opinions. I'm going to have a listen to the Dulcets and the DeCappo's on the weekend. Further, I'm going to take home a pair of Epos m12.2 's to have a home audition.

    yesterday, I had a quick listen to the Paradigm studio 40's, a pair of B&W's in the 1000 dollar Canadian range, a pair of Linns Katans and PMC's DB1s.

    Paradigms and B&W - hazy, unfocused, unengaging, clammy-sounding ,,, the list of negativity goes on. PMC DB1's - seriously over-rated - I can find better sound at much lower price. Linn's were the best of the bunch, but i'm positive that they can be out-classed for the same money.

    For certain, I will not buy anything until I'm thoroughly happy. I've too often made the mistake of purchasing equipment without fully realizing its characteristics/ quality.

  14. #14
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    Mostly because i have a lot of experience with them and they are in your price range, you might want to listen to a pair of Gershman X-1's if you have the opportunity.. I really like mine I listened to them without the SW-1 shortly and they sounded great, with the SW-1.. even better. Its a nice little speaker you can upgrade to a "floorstander" when budget/space allows for it.

    Gershman Acoustics X-1/SW-1 / Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblocks / Edge Electronics Si-1m Preamplifier / Sony DVP-NC555ES Transport Modded Caps and Opamps / Pro-Ject Debut II with Shure M97xE / Carver TX-11 Tuner / SonoCable and Harmonic Tech Cabling / Monster Power HTS1000 MKII / Monster Power HTS3500 MKII / Audio Note AN-K/Spe / Radii MSKT88 Monoblocks / SonoSilence One / Akai Reference Master

  15. #15
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    I just heard the new Gershman Black Swans at HE2005

    Quote Originally Posted by corwin99
    Mostly because i have a lot of experience with them and they are in your price range, you might want to listen to a pair of Gershman X-1's if you have the opportunity.. I really like mine I listened to them without the SW-1 shortly and they sounded great, with the SW-1.. even better. Its a nice little speaker you can upgrade to a "floorstander" when budget/space allows for it.
    A truely outstanding floorstander, with a unique decoupled bass module. Ms. Gershman was kind enough to put them through their paces for me.
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  16. #16
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loose
    yesterday, I had a quick listen to the Paradigm studio 40's, a pair of B&W's in the 1000 dollar Canadian range, a pair of Linns Katans and PMC's DB1s.

    Linn's were the best of the bunch, but i'm positive that they can be out-classed for the same money.
    Don't be *too* positive... ;-)

    Actually, aside from the Consonance Eric-1s (which are *extremely* difficult to find just about anywhere), I would take the Katans over anything else under $1K per pair I have heard to date. Each person has their own set of preferences, obviously though.

    The only real negative with the Katans is they definitely need a sub as they are quite light on bass, cutting off at about 70-75 Hz.

    ---Dave
    Integra DHC-40.2 Pre/Pro
    Coda 2 X 200 Watt Amp
    Rotel RB-985 5 X 100 Watt Amp
    2 Tyler Acoustics 2 Piece Linbrook Signature System
    1 Tyler Linbrook Signature Center Channel
    3 Tyler Taylo Reference Monitors
    1 ACI Titan II Sub
    Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD
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    Office:
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  17. #17
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    Totem or Snell.

    I would also give a listen to Totem or Snell speakers.A few months ago i visited a dealer who sold both the Katan and Totem Rainmaker.I thought the Totem was much better then the Katan...actually thought it blew it away.The Katan sounded very thin to me.My personal favorite are Snell speakers which are hard to find...few dealers around.Even after being sold to Boston Acoustics several years ago they still are incredible speakers.I have a small home theatre setup with Snell QBX speakers and they are tremendous.Very clean and dynamic sound...especially with good clean power.And i still have my trusty Snell KIII bookshelves which,even though about 7 years old still will compete with anything under $1000.00.Just my 2 cents.

  18. #18
    Tyler Acoustics Fan drseid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwh917
    I would also give a listen to Totem or Snell speakers.A few months ago i visited a dealer who sold both the Katan and Totem Rainmaker.I thought the Totem was much better then the Katan...actually thought it blew it away.The Katan sounded very thin to me.My personal favorite are Snell speakers which are hard to find...few dealers around.Even after being sold to Boston Acoustics several years ago they still are incredible speakers.I have a small home theatre setup with Snell QBX speakers and they are tremendous.Very clean and dynamic sound...especially with good clean power.And i still have my trusty Snell KIII bookshelves which,even though about 7 years old still will compete with anything under $1000.00.Just my 2 cents.
    This is a good example of different preferences... As I would have said the exact reverse (no disrespect intended to Totem, BTW).

    ---Dave
    Integra DHC-40.2 Pre/Pro
    Coda 2 X 200 Watt Amp
    Rotel RB-985 5 X 100 Watt Amp
    2 Tyler Acoustics 2 Piece Linbrook Signature System
    1 Tyler Linbrook Signature Center Channel
    3 Tyler Taylo Reference Monitors
    1 ACI Titan II Sub
    Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD
    Panasonic BDT-210 + 350 Blu-ray
    Consonance Droplet CDP-5.0
    Sony 55NX-810 1080p 3D-LED HDTV

    Office:
    Opera Audio Consonance CD-120
    Jolida 1301A 2 X 30 Watt Int. Amp (Sovtek Tubes)
    Opera Audio Consonance Eric-1 Speakers

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by drseid
    This is a good example of different preferences... As I would have said the exact reverse (no disrespect intended to Totem, BTW).

    ---Dave

    yeah, I agree with you (no offence to anyone else). I have listened to the Totems and I DO like some of them, but they're not what i'm looking for. Previously, I owned a pair of StudioLab Reference 1s which bettered the Totem Arros, but I soon found these to have shortcomings with which I could not live.

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