Speaker Characteristics and Why?

[Geoffcin]

Peter mentions this on the site. You are not getting the matching process when you buy the kit - and he says it's highly doubtful you will be able to equal the sound of the production units. So you are not getting a speaker in the kit that is as good - but then you're also paying less than half the price - so it's up to you. People have free will to make their choice. My choice would be not to buy a Kit E. The other kits fine but not the speaker kit. Now if I was not comparing the Kit E to the production Kit and I was just comparing the Kit E to other $3-$5k production speakers it is still good - but it doesn't get me raving up and down.

Cheers,

I don't believe a word of it. It's a classic case of voodoo. Of course your the happiest of cool-aid drinkers so you'll never see the truth of this.

[Geoffcin]

expecting things to sound better and actually bothering to audition them are different - well to me anyway. Peter and Peter were very close friends. Partly why Peter Q has the rights to the line. That does not mean that they agreed on everything. Part of the reason the AN E is not the same as the Snell E - quite a lot of things different really. All of the parts and cabinet material, the fact that one is corner loaded the other isn't with different port dimensions. Snell didn't invent the cabinet dimensions either. Snell came up with the Wave Launch and part of the matching process. The progression has gone on for years.

Good luck

The plans were not passed because they were friends, because Mr Snell died suddenly and the company passed directly to his business partner. If anything the plans were copied and the rear tweeter deleted so as not to arouse suspicion, or more crassly, to save a buck.

The Snell E sold for about a grand and was probably worth it. I can't see anything in the modern copy that would make me think it would be worth any more. In fact without the rear firing tweeter it should cost LESS to produce.

[Feanor]

I don't believe a word of it. It's a classic case of voodoo. Of course your the happiest of cool-aid drinkers so you'll never see the truth of this.

But surely not: RGA says he's an atheist.

[E-Stat]

Since you talked about being "educated" and how things need to be kept in check around here with this quote:

"This site is not that bad. It is just that folks here are educated enough that you just cannot say anything and get away with it. You got to know your stuff, or you will get checked. Nothing wrong with that, it keeps the integrity of the site intact, and keeps the misinformation to a minimum."
__________________
Sir Terrence

While that comment was said in context with movies and home theatre about which he is eminently qualified, it certainly applies here, too. Indeed, calling someone's hand over conflicting comments or a lack of substantiation does keep misinformation to a minimum. We see how he responds to getting "checked".

"it is none of your damn business"

"it quite frankly is none of your business

rw

[RGA]

Feanor and Geofcin

I enjoyed reading your perspectives. Good luck with that.

.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

While that comment was said in context with movies and home theatre about which he is eminently qualified, it certainly applies here, too. Indeed, calling someone's hand over conflicting comments or a lack of substantiation does keep misinformation to a minimum. We see how he responds to getting "checked".

"it is none of your damn business"

"it quite frankly is none of your business

rw

If that "checked" comes from you, don't hold your breath for any response.

Both responses were certainly applicable to the topic at hand, which had nothing to do with my equipment at all.

[E-Stat]

... which had nothing to do with my equipment at all.

I don't understand the fixation you have with your equipment. Is your opinion limited to only hearing it? This is now the third or fourth time you've pursued that tangent. The question has to do with supporting your opinion on tube gear as supported by that which you've heard - in any familiar environment. Take your pick. You continually demonstrate that such experience is completely absent.

rw

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I don't understand the fixation you have with your equipment. Is your opinion limited to only hearing it? This is now the third or fourth time you've pursued that tangent. The question has to do with supporting your opinion on tube gear as supported by that which you've heard - in any familiar environment. Take your pick. You continually demonstrate that such experience is completely absent.

rw

I seems to me that YOU have this fixation not me. I have had to tell you twice that my equipment it is not the topic at hand, and I have had to say this in more than one thread. So I think you have this twisted.

Secondly, I work with quite a few audio engineers that just happen to be audiophiles as well, so I have heard various types of equipment handling both analog and digital formats.

You have over and over claimed that my experience is limited when it comes to tube equipment, yet there is no facts to support this opinion - you are making it up, and repeating it over and over as if it will suddenly become truth. An assumption is an assumption no matter how many times you repeat that assumption.

In dealing with you Ralph, you have demonstrated over and over a dismissive character when one lists specifics. When I told you that I had heard the entire line of Nordost's cables, you responded as if I was foolish to do so, but never acknowledged that it was smart to educated myself on the sound throughout their entire line. When I stated the wire I ultimately choose was a custom made wire, you made a statement to the effect that is could not be as good as the Nordost, even though you have never heard it. When I gave specifics on my amps, you denegraded them, without even so much as a listen. So you can see after this, I have no interest or motivation to discuss specifics with you ever again. Sometimes ones actions can do more to dissaude gaining specifics when the response is dissmissive, or continously denegrading. You have exibited both.

[E-Stat]

I have had to tell you twice that my equipment it is not the topic at hand...

It never has been.

You have over and over claimed that my experience is limited when it comes to tube equipment, yet there is no facts to support this opinion

Why is it you always take the Fifth when asked that simple question?

When I told you that I had heard the entire line of Nordost's cables, you responded as if I was foolish to do so, but never acknowledged that it was smart to educated myself on the sound throughout their entire line.

Did you really burn in and try all fourteen models in your system? How did Valhalla compare with Tyr? And ended up with - none of them? The generic stuff was better than Odin? Really? FYI, while I appreciate Nordost, I don't own any myself. And I use some Blue Jeans cable in the garage system and purchased and terminated some bulk Belden 89259 for the office computer/house system since I needed about ten meters.

When I stated the wire I ultimately choose was a custom made wire, you made a statement to the effect that is could not be as good as the Nordost, even though you have never heard it.

If you recall, I asked what it was. What are its metrics? You just won't find generic cable that has a super low dielectric constant. Again, you take the Fifth every time. No substance at all.

When I gave specifics on my amps, you denegraded them, without even so much as a listen.

Onkyo is not exactly known for state of the art gear and they only make a mid-fi amplifier today (like my NAD). If they were so wonderful, why modify them? Are they as good as the new Bryston 28B (which itself is a far better amp than previous models from them)?

So you can see after this, I have no interest or motivation to discuss specifics with you ever again.

The relevancy of your assertion about the superior accuracy of SS over tubes is directly proportional to your demonstrated exposure. Which is absent. Very few of us (certainly not I) have truly state of the art systems. But then you claim that with your millions of dollars of investment, you know THE answer - yet have no idea about what is really available on the market. That is sad if you truly love musical reproduction.

rw

[Geoffcin]

Speakers guys, were in speakers forum here!

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

It never has been.

Great, I am sure you will stop asking the question in further discussions.

Why is it you always take the Fifth when asked that simple question?

Because a detailed list of equipment I have heard has never been the basis of stating something you have observed over a long period of time. If it was, then almost nobody here would be able to discuss anything. I have never seen you are anyone else ask somebody for a specific list of what they have heard as a basis of respecting an observation. If you are not going to ask everyone to do this, then you should not ask me. I do have a right to respond as I please just like you do.

Did you really burn in and try all fourteen models in your system? How did Valhalla compare with Tyr? And ended up with - none of them? The generic stuff was better than Odin? Really? FYI, while I appreciate Nordost, I don't own any myself.

Yes all of the cables were burned in before they got to my studio. I do not have my notes in front of me, so I cannot tell you what my observation between cables are. I don't keep this information once I have made my decision, and I see no purpose in doing so since I am not going to buy any new cables anytime soon.

If you recall, I asked what it was. What are its metrics? You just won't find generic cable that has a super low dielectric constant. Again, you take the Fifth every time. No substance at all.

I don't care what the metrics are, that is not my area of expertise, and I was not interested in that at all. All I cared about was how good they sounded, and how much they cost. I said this before, and now I have to say it again.

Onkyo is not exactly known for state of the art gear and they only make a mid-fi amplifier today (like my NAD). If they were so wonderful, why modify them? Are they as good as the new Bryston 28B (which itself is a far better amp than previous models from them)?

My amp was not purchased today, is not consider mid fi by anyone I know (except you as an off handed insult), and was not a big seller here like it was in Japan. You modify something not because it was bad or poor in the first place, but because you know you can get more from the design than it already has.

The answer to the last question is no. But let's face it, not a lot of amps are.

The relevancy of your assertion about the superior accuracy of SS over tubes is directly proportional to your demonstrated exposure. Which is absent. Very few of us (certainly not I) have truly state of the art systems. But then you claim that with your millions of dollars of investment, you know THE answer - yet have no idea about what is really available on the market. That is sad if you truly love musical reproduction.

More stupid assumptions, damn give me a break and say something you know for damn sure!!!!!

[Geoffcin]

AMPS, CABLES, TUBES? Not for this thread.

Got a personal beef?

Take it to the Steel Cage.

[astrallite]

Beaming can be fixed using 3-way design right? Say a 6-8" woofer, a 2-4" midrange driver to compliment the tweeter.

For example, NHT Classic 3 uses a midrange driver, Energy Veritas v2.2, and the Revel Ultima Gem2. All 3 have shown almost ruler-flat frequency response out to 12k even at very wide horizontal angles (>45 degrees).

[Pat D]

Beaming can be fixed using 3-way design right? Say a 6-8" woofer, a 2-4" midrange driver to compliment the tweeter.

For example, NHT Classic 3 uses a midrange driver, Energy Veritas v2.2, and the Revel Ultima Gem2. All 3 have shown almost ruler-flat frequency response out to 12k even at very wide horizontal angles (>45 degrees).

45 degrees? Paul Barton long ago said that after the direct response, his greatest concern was the first reflections off the side walls. Hence, he put great emphasis on the far off axis response, 60-75 degrees off axis.

http://stereophile.com/interviews/231/index2.html

[astrallite]

45 degrees? Paul Barton long ago said that after the direct response, his greatest concern was the first reflections off the side walls. Hence, he put great emphasis on the far off axis response, 60-75 degrees off axis.

http://stereophile.com/interviews/231/index2.html

Yeah that's why there's a greater than (>) sign in front of 45. It's a mathematical symbol in case you didn't know.