• 04-23-2005, 11:17 AM
    RGA
    Soundhounds picks up Magnepan and Diamond B&W's
    I went down yesterday to Victoria to get a Passport and while there I just had to stop by my favorite dealer. They dropped ML for Magnepan by the look of it (a good trade sonically IMO). They are going to wait to see how well they sell but YES they will bring in the 20.1.

    These guys are bringing out some big guns in that store also already with $30K U.S. AN E/SEC Silver speakers, and now the $25k or so B&W Diamond 802. Also listened to some very impressive AKG headphones

    As usual I only planned on spending about 2 hours there but ended up being about 6.

    Brief reports:

    AKG
    The AKG headphones are quite interesting in that you connect them directly up to you amplifier's outputs ( I heard them years ago with SS and wasn't impressed - but this time it was connected with a better wire to the 8 ohm taps of a Wyotech expensive 300b (or what looked like a 300b tube amp. These things were more comfortable than I remember and they have a visceral kind of impact that no Grado or Sennheiser including my HD600 can remotely touch IMO. You can also run a subwoofer for the lower octave if you desire because the AKG is essentially a speaker system hooked to your head with a free adjustment that allow for the kind of sound you want. $650 isn't cheap for headphones and they NEED an amplifier and a good one - but it's seriously good piece of kit that for apartment dwellers will give high end sound can rock really well and not all home speakers for $650 can claim this - or $2300.00 ones for that matter.

    Initial impressions:
    Sound: 9/10
    Comfort: 8/10
    Build: 9/10
    Value for Money: 8/10


    B&W Diamond 802:

    Wellthis speaker has just about doubled the price of the N802 (daimonds are not just forever they're also expensive as it would seem). Still you'll have an easier time convincing the wife to take home speakers using Diamonds than Audio Note's mere Silver -- forget copper :D

    They had some rock music on when I came in and was more interested in listening to Magnepan because I thought the B&W's were just the N802 (so after they moved them and put the maggies on and then later I was told they were Diamonds i didn't want to get them to move it all back) Still I listened for a little while.

    They had a budget system (well $10k or so worth of front end) an Audio Note M3 preamp, Moon CD Player and a Rotel power amp). The owner says as usual they are on the hunt for something that will make them sound good. The speakers sounded brighter than my memory of the N802 maybe faster but still not coordinated. They may have to break them in if you buy this aspect of audio-ology. Next time I will give them a real run.

    Initial impressions (This should be taken with a serious dose of salt since I listened to it for less than 1/2 an hour and it may not have been broken in)
    Sound: 5/10
    Build: 10/10
    Value for Money: 0/10 edit(N/A as not enough time to fully determine sound as yet).

    Magnepan 1.6
    First this will probably be the opposite of convincing the wife as these are quite large speakers -- you certainly do feel you get something for your $2300.00 or so Canadian bucks. at least 3 feet from the back wall and I'd say at least 10 feet from any side wall. Same front end -- that was the complaint of the store owner with both set-ups because once you rule out using the desired SETs they carried then it all just becomes a tier down. Well he listens all day to everything so normal folks who have not heard the SETs won't really know what they're missing -- touche.

    This store told me bryston was a terrible match - and that is what I heard the 3.6 with at another dealer in Vancouver...they were right as this system made the 1.6 sound much better. I had said before that I understand what people see in Magnepan and i still have not changed my view - except on this occasion I could say that considering the $2300.00Cdn tag it actually impressed me rather than me thinkingwho else it might impress.

    let's go to the strengths -- size of soundstage left to right and imaging(I'm fuzzy on people's differing definitions of imaging but instrument localization was very good) -- This is probably obvious to those lhave listened to them -- localization of different vocals and instruments are very superior in this price range and probably a number of price ranges beyond compare to most boxed designs --- It is crystal clear in the treble band (and dynamically solid in the midrange up)and obviously no box resonances of many cheaper floorstanders.

    I'd be doing a disservice not to address some of the areas of weakness -- I met a few strangers who were sitting there with me and we all agreed that this is a terrific speaker for $2,300.00 and worht your consideration -- but (there is always one) it isn't all roses. It is not a speaker where anything goes recording wise, it isn't particurly a relaxing speaker either -- it became hard at higher levels (and they were not real high so I'm thinking strings and acoustic music at lower levels is best. Bass is better than I expeced but doesn't have any visceral impact like good boxed designs. AC/DC is not an option.

    The other thing is the speaker is more about the pomps and pipes of hi-fi (show off select recordings to firends) than it is about the music it seems). Listening more critically the speakers have a fantastic sense of air and attack the pluck of a guitar string...where it lacks is the decay and trailing edged of instruments (this could be why I found some of it hard). I noticed this on Allison Krauss + Union Station Live an exceptionally well recorded country folk album that puts speakers through most of the string paces and vocals. I felt the speakers ultimately present a 2d image with a forced sense of 3d. As if the surface of the music was presented without the depth or insight of the music that I've heard from these musicians. I sat off center quite a bit in one listening and they don't like you to sit too far off axis that;s for sure -- though horizontally it was better -- you could stand up and the stage follows a bit better than most standmounts.

    Now this all sounds negative which is not my intent because it does some things for example that absolute murder speakers like the B&W 705 which will cost the same money look pretty but the Maggie has more sense of air a bigger stage is clearly can rock better does the piano FAR better than the 705 and ost boxed speakers in this class. The Maggie reminds me a bit of the Audio Note AX Two interestingly enough (that's a good thing IMO).

    Sound: 8/10
    Build: 8/10
    Value for Money: 9/10

    I listened to 4 Audio Note speakers 3 good 1 not good.

    AN E/L (11 years old) uses chipboard cabinet front and back with MDF wrap -- ugly cabinet plastic jumpers (~$2400.00 new back then) I compared this to A Kit E the store had reverse engineered and the E/Spe and the AX Two again. The eleven year old E sounded very good but the wiring and cabinet does take some life away from the sound in the treble and in the resolution of the midrange compared to more expensive models. Bass is ab bit heavier here with a slightly more thuddy sound than a tuneful sound. I hate to use their guitar analogy but some guitars just sound better more lively and opej while this one has a bit of a deader sound to the proceedings. Still minor knit picking and only really noticeable because when you've heard the better ones you hear the deficiencies easier.

    Sound 9/10
    Build 7/10
    Value for money (N/A used speaker)

    AN E/Spe -- This I reviewed already on this site (I placed a Loreena Mckennit cd on and one track just has thunderous deep bass -- a few people had to come in and see what was producing it -- sub -- of course not. This was a large room in the sense that it is fairly narrow but with 20 foot + loft like ceilings. What consistantly impresses is that there is absolute zero hint of vocal smearing while it is producing that bass depth.

    Sound 10
    Build 10
    Value 10

    AN Kit E
    Thgis was reverse engineered and a purchased kit. They used all Birch ply which is now recommended. God is in the details they say and that final process at the Audio Note plant of matching and tuning is the detail that this kit does not have and where it does not live up to the Audio Note Sound. Bass is heavy and almost too overpowering, the treble is open and extended but not cohesive as I've grown accustomed to. both the dealer and I were very dissapointed with the sound of the KIT e. Now it's very very hard to evaluate a kit because who klnows if the person put it together wrong (but this was bult bt a professional). Maybe it wasn't burned in enough but those are excuses that I don't have info on. Now if you've never heard Audio Note's production E's these kits probably will still sound very good.

    Sound: 6/10
    Build: 10/10
    Value: 6.5/10

    AX Two

    Well this actually sounded better again - really easily the best sub 1k speaker they sell and they sell more of them than anything else in the store with good reason. Open (really incredibly open resmbling the maggie 1.6 in this regard -- about the same bass depth of the 1.6 as well -- the 1.6 has a more spacious sound and a treble that is more extended but again 3 times the money folks it should be better...unlike the 705 the maggie is actually a better sounding speaker.

    Sound: 8/10
    Build: 7/10
    Value: 10/10

    You could get three sets of them for a surround system for less money than one B&W 705 -- no contest to me.
  • 04-23-2005, 01:13 PM
    topspeed
    Quote:

    You could get three sets of them for a surround system for less money than one B&W 705 -- no contest to me.
    RGA would prefer AN over B&W, or any other speaker for that matter. The Hell you say! ;)
  • 04-23-2005, 01:33 PM
    Geoffcin
    Never has there been a more suspect review of a speaker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by topspeed
    RGA would prefer AN over B&W, or any other speaker for that matter. The Hell you say! ;)

    I'm sure the guys at B&W are worried that sales will suffer after this scathing review. ;o)
  • 04-23-2005, 01:41 PM
    Florian
    AudioNo.......what ?...mmh....nevermind ;)
  • 04-23-2005, 02:08 PM
    theaudiohobby
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    B&W Diamond 802:
    ...The owner says as usual they are on the hunt for something that will make them sound good.

    Any dealer who sets up a terrible sounding demo of a premium priced speaker (why bother anyway if it sounds atrocious) and claims he does not know what makes that speaker sound good, he has priviledged access to the manufacturer or importer :rolleyes:, is either kidding himself or plain incompetent. IMVHO :p
  • 04-23-2005, 02:38 PM
    Geoffcin
    Interesting tack....
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by theaudiohobby
    Any dealer who sets up a terrible sounding demo of a premium priced speaker (why bother anyway if it sounds atrocious) and claims he does not know what makes that speaker sound good, he has priviledged access to the manufacturer or importer :rolleyes:, is either kidding himself or plain incompetent. IMVHO :p

    I wonder if B&W, who are notorious for perfection, know what kind of crappy setup this dealer is using. Perhaps someone should forward this review to them? I'm sure they would be interested in customers first impressions of this setup.
  • 04-23-2005, 03:30 PM
    theaudiohobby
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    I wonder if B&W, who are notorious for perfection, know what kind of crappy setup this dealer is using. Perhaps someone should forward this review to them? I'm sure they would be interested in customers first impressions of this setup.

    That will be an interesting scenario, I wonder how they will react to that?
  • 04-23-2005, 03:39 PM
    theaudiohobby
    Just sent the canadian importer an email with the link looking forward to their reply ;) :p
  • 04-23-2005, 03:51 PM
    Geoffcin
    I'm not sure but...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by theaudiohobby
    That will be an interesting scenario, I wonder how they will react to that?

    I'm sure that soundhounds revenue can't mean much to them sales wise, especially with such a lousy presentation. However, the bad press from them posted on this forum, read by THOUSANDS of possible customers might mean a lot.

    My local dealer sells strickly B&W, Magnepan, Dynaudio, and Quad. He's got about 10000 sq feet of display areas, some areas dedicated to only one speaker! B&W is by far the LARGEST seller he has. If he lost B&W it would mean a word of hurt. Thankfully everytime I've heard B&W there it's been a real great time. Just ask me about the 800's driven by Musical Fidelity KW monoblocks, or the 802's driven by 200 watt VTL's! I could go on, and on, and on.
  • 04-23-2005, 04:01 PM
    theaudiohobby
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    Thankfully everytime I've heard B&W there it's been a real great time. Just ask me about the 800's driven by Musical Fidelity KW monoblocks, or the 802's driven by 200 watt VTL's! I could go on, and on, and on.

    ;), the N802 sounds good to these ears.
  • 04-23-2005, 04:12 PM
    Geoffcin
    Oh yeah!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by theaudiohobby
    ;), the N802 sounds good to these ears.

    I'm not saying that you NEED a massive 200 watts of American tube power to make the 802's sing, but boy do they ever sing when you give them the juice!

    I really like VTL's simple, but powerful ideals for amplification;

    Power

    We believe that it takes extra muscle in the electronics for a room acoustic to approach the recreation of the live musical event. Most modern speakers fully develop their potential only when they are controlled with high-powered amplifiers.

    Purity

    Music is complex, and we seek the musical purity that comes from a simple circuit path built with premium parts. We offer the full frequency response, so you get all the music with few electronic distortions.

    Simplicity

    Pure tube design, a short, simple circuit path; a big, well-regulated power supply, and a first-class, well-matched output transformer. Simplicity in design offers clean, pure sonic reproduction and ease of use for the listener.
  • 04-23-2005, 04:38 PM
    RGA
    Did I say it was a terrible sounding demo? Where did you all get this from? Reading into it again?

    No they are working on finding the best match for the B&W speakers so they are in the process of trying stuff out with the speakers -- I said this is very tentavie first impression based on a short session -- this was not an attack on B&W -- the next time I go it could be fantastic. I suspect the culprit is the Rotel because it was a lower powered unit (the 1070 perhaps not the big power amp). Then there is also burn in because they have not had them them very long. My honest initial reaction is that they seem very much like the N805 only the N805 was $11,000.00 the price has more than doubled which is fine as well and they may indeed be better the next time I go down. They just sounded bright, lacked bass and cost a lot of money -- I'm not at all alone on my opinion of B&W -- go to AA and you'll find plenty of people who would not give them the benefit of the doubt that i give them -- and I owned B&W and support B&W -- people who have not been on this forum very long may not know it but those who have been here for 3 years probably felt I was a B&W fanatic...they were wrong then as are people who think I hate B&W are now.

    B&W is hardly noted for perfection -- no one is noted for perfection.

    Unlike magazines who get 100's of thousands PER YEAR in advertising dollars from B&W they cannot buy my support unless it sounds good - when it does I rave as with the DM 302 and recommend what I think is good N805, CDM 1NT, CDM 2SE, 303, 602S3 603S3, 604S3, N802, N804, M801, M805, LM1, Model Nautilus, and perhaps this new one when I listen to it some more and they find the best match. B&W reps are the ones who recommend Rotel with every B&W so if Rotel is the culprit then blame the people WORKING for and hired by B&W.

    It's not a real surprise I liked the AN's more so did everyone else who came in and or who works there. The surprise was that I liked the Maggies. I think when the 3.6 comes in it may address some of my complaints quite simply because it will have more panel to work with and may be more at ease when playing harder...it should also bring about more depth. (my first audition with the 3.6 was at another location with bigger name gear but not a good match apparently).

    To address the matching issue -- the importer recommends a match which may not really work in the real world when money isn't the driving force. There is plenty of stuff my dealer sells that he doesn't at all like --- but that isn't an attack on the entire company it's an opinion and NO sorry not everything that has ever been built in the history of audio has been perfect...if you believe that then go shop at Wal-Mart and get some Yorx and Acoustech Labs.

    He gets in say NAD equipment and attempt to build systems which sound very good -- the customer is always right of course and if someone phones in to set up a demo -- if they have the time the dealer will also demo the speakers with something a little different to see if the person likes system 2 better (at no more money and often less money) so the customer may get a better sounding system for less than they originally planned to spend. Not many dealers go to this kind of trouble because it costs them money -- what it does do though is build a pretty good bridge that down the road when that person wants a new system they will go back to Soundhounds.

    Not all dealers are interested in music or sound -- they are interested in selling and making money -- obviously Soundhounds is interested in selling and making money too -- but they are genuinely interested in music reproduction... caryring about 8 lines of turntables in the home theater age, closing two days a week, and selling tube gear and relatively ugly products mostly at high cost is not the sell-out tactics of most in these parts.

    They carry stuff that sells and some stuff they carry that sells little they really like and ask only that it can pay for itself. They like Creek but it sells very badly apparently. He dislikes a very very big name almost always raved about in Stereohile SS maker they carry but don't really like the gear themselves -- but it sells and people seem to like it so they carry it. They don't argue with people who come in and say I want thios do you have it? Yes! Wrap it up Loots of buyers basically read the review and go in and look at it and say good here's my cheque.

    I witnessed two such buyers the day i was in...I need a speaker for no more than $300 and the dealer said they had these few...asked about them for about 10 minites -- never listened to any of them and bought the one that looked best I gather. That happens a lot even with $3k amplifiers. Many people are about the equipment to HAVE the recommended componants over just the sound. Most of the people here on forums are probably not like this at all but we're not a majority and don't believe for a second that we are.

    The difference with this owner is that he is not afraid to tell you what he likes if you ask him -- why should there be a gag order? They are people with preferences as well - when yuo go home at the end of the day to listen yet to more music they need to own something they personally like. None of the big name companies are going to be too worried by a little company like AN so no need for people to get in a tizzy...there is more to it than sound for most buyers.

    My bias toward preferring AN well that is obvious since I bought them -- naturally I would buy what sounds best to me -- if others did I'd buy stuff from them...this was not presented as an objective Fact -- it cannot be, it is merely an audition with my results for ****s and giggles. :rolleyes:

    I heard AN beat everything (to my ears) they sold 2 years ago which is why I bought them and nothing I heard has changed that since...though it could happen...I heard no headphones that beat the Senn HD 600 -- yesterday I did. I heard no similarly priced turntable beat my NAD -- they have ProJects that to me are superior and considerably cheaper.
  • 04-23-2005, 04:49 PM
    Geoffcin
    I think you DID give it a terrible rating
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    Did I say it was a terrible sounding demo? Where did you all get this from? Reading into it again?

    From RGA's review of the N802;

    >Sound: 5/10
    Build: 10/10
    Value for Money: 0/10<

    Basically your saying that the new 802 with the diamond tweeter was "valueless" I think that statement speaks volumes.
  • 04-23-2005, 05:09 PM
    RGA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by theaudiohobby
    Just sent the canadian importer an email with the link looking forward to their reply ;) :p

    Well I hope the importer reads the whole post since you have claimed that Soundhounds has done something worng -- what exactly is that? They liked the product and they sell a lot of B&W.

    Do you seriously expect everyone on the planet to love B&W TAH more than anything else ont he planet TAH? Please let's not waste B&W or their importer's valuable time because an internet forumer spent about 1/2 listening to one of their speakers and felt that it was bright and overpriced. B&W has only to go to Audio Asylum forums and read hundreds of people who think B&W is bright and overpriced and read the reviews of Stereophile where they DEFEND B&W by actually noting a lot of complaints about their speakers being bright. There is nothing really new here that B&W and or their reps have not heard MANY MANY times from MANY MANY people over the last decade. And it has not hurt them nor will it. Moreover, the store owner was sitting on the couch listening to it when I came in - there was no customer he was demoing it for. It may very well be a good speaker when they get a better amp and when I bring my collection.

    If the importer or whoever cares to look through this thread -- they will see that on par I like most B&W speakers and fairly evaluate them on several occasions usually at different locations just in case -- this was a first impression and they didn't thrill me --- well hell the 801's I didn't like the first time I heard them at hifi center in Vancouver ( do you want B&W pulled from there too) in fact it's never sounded good there --- and blue Circle Audio -- the 705s were dreadful and didn;t ahve dedicated room-- maybe B&W should jsut pull out of every place. In fact the 801 has sounded BEST at sounhounds of any place I've been -- hell I almost bought the N805 which still ranks high on my list of standmounts in that price class.

    Soundhounds can't be blamed for set-up -- speakers need to be placed in a variety of rooms -- they have a variety of rooms...it seems to me that EVERYONE always talks about finding the right amplifier match -- well here is a good solution alla PMC -- find an amp maker B&W brass that you all think is excellent for yous speakers and make them Active...then there is none of this BS about amp matching and no bleeding excuses -- find a cd player maker you love and a cable maker you love and sell it as the prescribed B&W system and let the chips fall. Frankly I bet B&W can do it --- The Arcam/B&W CDM systems of a few years back (at Hi-fi Center) were absolutely fantastic and not ridiculously expesnive either.
  • 04-23-2005, 05:18 PM
    RGA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    From RGA's review of the N802;

    >Sound: 5/10
    Build: 10/10
    Value for Money: 0/10<

    Basically your saying that the new 802 with the diamond tweeter was "valueless" I think that statement speaks volumes.

    Does it? Without asking whatvalue for money means how do you know how to interpret this. Based off of an initial impression of what I heard given the massive 20k+ price tag then to me they score poorly for value for money...SO FAR --- Chances are no one reading this thread gives a crap about my audition, nor has the money to buy these speakers and like they say negative press still = press so the longer this thread goes the more curiosity will be peaked about this speaker and more people will go check em out...so B&W can't lose either way Especially when I go back and listen to them again and it turns out they live up to the pretty high standards of most B&W products.

    But right now based off what i heard I would buy the 1.6 Maggie...because it sounded better to me...now maybe $20k to you is nothing but if I can get better sound IMO for $2kCad then how can I say well I'll give B&W 8/10 value for money? it's going to have to demonstrate that it's worth $20K by sounding the part. My short audition didn't do it -- I suppose I should have put an N/A in the value for money part to mean as yet to be determined --- but I outlined the limits of the listening session at the outset which should have been more than clear.
  • 04-23-2005, 07:14 PM
    Geoffcin
    Again your making no sense
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    Does it? Without asking whatvalue for money means how do you know how to interpret this.

    Why would I have to ask what the "value for money" means when you score it a 0/10? Last I looked the value of "0" was the same no matter how high the number it's divided into.

    The facts are that you post described how poorly the B&W 802 sounded driven by the setup they are using at Soundhounds. Your post was also quite eloquent on how they seem not to know how to drive them correctly. My guess is that B&W would not appreciate one of their top speakers being displayed to customers in this way. To me that is blatantly WRONG on Soundhounds part. I'm pretty sure the importer would feel the same way too.
  • 04-24-2005, 04:05 AM
    Florian
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    Why would I have to ask what the "value for money" means when you score it a 0/10? Last I looked the value of "0" was the same no matter how high the number it's divided into.

    The facts are that you post described how poorly the B&W 802 sounded driven by the setup they are using at Soundhounds. Your post was also quite eloquent on how they seem not to know how to drive them correctly. My guess is that B&W would not appreciate one of their top speakers being displayed to customers in this way. To me that is blatantly WRONG on Soundhounds part. I'm pretty sure the importer would feel the same way too.

    But at least they still have AudioNote to save them..... :p
  • 04-24-2005, 11:19 AM
    RGA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    Why would I have to ask what the "value for money" means when you score it a 0/10? Last I looked the value of "0" was the same no matter how high the number it's divided into.

    The facts are that you post described how poorly the B&W 802 sounded driven by the setup they are using at Soundhounds. Your post was also quite eloquent on how they seem not to know how to drive them correctly. My guess is that B&W would not appreciate one of their top speakers being displayed to customers in this way. To me that is blatantly WRONG on Soundhounds part. I'm pretty sure the importer would feel the same way too.


    Well maybe just maybe they are set-up correctly but didn;t sound good anyway -- never thought of that eh? maybe the speaker is at fault. Please tell me where I am saying it is set up badly. B&W is a co-importer of Rotel -- every dealer that i see that has B&W including the big hi-fi Center runs B&W with Rotel.

    0/10 is value FOR MONEY. at ~$20k+ when the sound is worse that a speaker at $1500.00 and worse than one at $700.00 how would you rate the value for money an 8? -- to me that is HORRIBLE value and should get a zero. I still quantified it originally by stating this was a very initial impression -- I had a similar reaction to the N801 -- and blasted that -- now it's one I rate highly.

    B&W will not care a darn what TAH e-mails them so long as soundhounds sells B&W speakers. With all the abuse B&W has taken on AA over the years just from owners about treble I'd seriously be surprised they're going to care about one person's already stated initial reaction to hearing their speakers for under an hour. 12 people who view this thread 10 times each --- ooh they're going to quake in their boots that maybe 1 person on this forum who could pony up the $20k+ won't buy it now -- highly doubtful that case is anyway. Plus if it does turn out to be very good at a later date then I will post that report...if not so be it. There was nothig wrong with the placement or the set-up -- the room's advantages or disadvantages is the same for all the other speakers and the equipment was the same running the maggies same room.

    Yet magically I suppose Magnepan sounded good but B&W had trouble...that is why the dealer said this will get better when we get a bigger better power amp.

    Look on AA at people who don't like the Nautilus series -- or owners who've owned them and moved on --- usually it's the bright treble, the BBC dip, the lack of cohesiveness, kevlar break-up, it goes on and on...I listened they sounded bright --- this is nothing out of the ordinary for B&W complaints...and some people may actually like that sound as well.
  • 04-24-2005, 02:05 PM
    Florian
    Well i am actually glad on your rating RGA. In my opinion the speaker is not worth 20K either.

    -Flo
  • 04-24-2005, 02:23 PM
    RGA
    Magnepan is fairly priced -- Looking around at what you could spend $2,400.00CAD on in a speaker you'd be crazy not to give the Maggies a try if at all possible given their size, amp, and WAF demands if those are all passable to a person then this speaker is right at or very near the head of the pack. I have heard ML's entry stat that is nearly double and you'd have a tough time convincing me they're any better.

    I didn't think the 1.6 is perfect but I would have no problem with people claiming it the best speaker for that price range -- it offers a helluva lot of the goods for sane money. The B&W model nautilus (the snail) is one helluva statment product and sounds the business -- the D802 might too when I go and re-listen.

    Despite my quibbles with the 1.6 it is the same price as the 705 --- it is utterly, to me, not even in the same league as the Magnepan
  • 04-24-2005, 02:51 PM
    Florian
    I think it would be cool for B&W to take some models out of their program since they are to similar. For Magnepan i wish that they would add a model between the 1.6 and 3.6 since the difference in sound is very large and also on the pocket book.

    -Flo
  • 04-24-2005, 04:23 PM
    Geoffcin
    Actually there was a mid-range once
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Florian
    I think it would be cool for B&W to take some models out of their program since they are to similar. For Magnepan i wish that they would add a model between the 1.6 and 3.6 since the difference in sound is very large and also on the pocket book.

    -Flo

    But the 2.X r (ribbon tweeter) series sounded too incongruous to be viable, especially when they developed the quasi-ribbon tweeter-midrange. Actually I think the quasi-ribbon is the only driver fast enough to mate with the true ribbon. The 20.1r uses it, and also a true push-pull planar woofer. While I don't think that it's the best speaker ever made, but it's pretty darn close.
  • 04-24-2005, 06:47 PM
    Feanor
    There's something in the works
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Florian
    I think it would be cool for B&W to take some models out of their program since they are to similar. For Magnepan i wish that they would add a model between the 1.6 and 3.6 since the difference in sound is very large and also on the pocket book.

    -Flo

    Or so it's rumored. That would be the size of the MG 1.6 but with a true ribbon mid/tweeter. It would almost certainly be over US$3000 or Cdn$3700. Which means I won't regret buying my 1.6's for a bit under Cdn$2250.

    Personally I suspect RGA is right about 705 vs. 1.6. I auditioned the 705 predeceasor, CDM 1NT, at length. But I preferred the Magneplanar MMGs that were hardly more than half the price. And yes, the 1.6's are a significant step up from the MMG's.
  • 04-24-2005, 07:34 PM
    RGA
    Feaner -- I suspect you'd find the CDM 1NT better than the 705 -- so the swing would probably even be FARTHER in favour of the Maggie than it already is.

    I don;t know how Soundhounds is going to get the space for the top maggie 20.something - they already carry 12 main speaker lines with several floater brands and we have not even got to the used stuff. They're going to have to move the thousands of records off the walls pretty soon. They have about four rows of three stacked subs speakers on shelves to get down to let people audition...but the 20 is massive (they;ll have to have a maggie section -- at least they're thin. :D
  • 04-25-2005, 04:06 AM
    theaudiohobby
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Florian
    Well i am actually glad on your rating RGA. In my opinion the speaker is not worth 20K either.

    -Flo

    But you were bent out of shape when Woochifer said the Apogee Scintilla was overrated, ;) , it all goes to show...