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Side-grading from B&W N805, need advice!
Long story short, I've tried both tubes and SS on the Nautilus 805's but the metal tweeter always gets to me after long periods of listening. They do great on vocals/jazz but for faster/bass heavier music, they really leave something to be desired.
I'm looking for something with smoother highs, something that doesn't use a metal tweeter. Fuller bass would be nice too, I found the bass a bit lacking on the 805's, although it wasn't too bad in my 11x15 room.
Whether it's a tower or monitor makes no difference to me, but I do NOT want to add a subwoofer. My budget is about <$2000 on the used market (Audiogon) and my amp is a McIntosh 7100 (100wpc SS).
Here is some good used speakers that I see so far:
Totem Forests - $1800
ProAc Response 1.5 - $1100
Usher X-719 - $750
Harbeth Hlp3-Es2 - $1300
Like I mentioned, I'm looking for something that is non-fatiguing/smooth while retaining the openness/airy sound of the 805's. I've demo'ed a few speakers so far from B&M shops and while most sound smoother, many have a boxy/recessed sound.
Any advice is appreciated, thanks!
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Those Totem's would probably solve your problems. Highly regarded. Have you given any thought to an alternative to a box? Electro-stat or open-baffle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by koven
I've demo'ed a few speakers so far from B&M shops and while most sound smoother, many have a boxy/recessed sound.
Maybe it's time to do some research and look for a more truthful speaker...might be just what you need.
Tekton makes a well regarded O.B. that won't blow the bank...
http://www.tektondesign.com/ob45.htm
http://www.tektondesign.com/images/obmid2.jpg
Magnepans MMG is well regarded and hard to beat at it's price point...they offer a 60-day return window!!!
http://www.magnepan.com/model_MMG
http://www.magnepan.com/content/bina...ers/MMG_01.jpg
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The usher speakers I have listened to and they are very smooth and not fatiguing at all. And am almost positive that the woofer in the x-719 would out do your B&W's in the bass department as well. I am not sure about your other choices but I have heard of them and they might be promising. I have Paradigm monitor 7's and have changed the tweeter the stock tweeter to a good 1 1/8 inch soft dome tweeter and the difference is substantial. And the monitor 7's had metal tweeters too and I have learned that for me in most cases metal dome tweeters are just way too bright for me to listen to for long periods of time. Since changing tweeters I have been listening way more and listening to music and CD's that I did not like before but it was because my speakers were way too bright.
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I would see if you could find a used pair of PSB Synchrony's. Stereophile Class A rating. Nice warm but balanced sound, excellent bass.
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I'd suggest something in Dynaudio's Focus series or Contour. I've had my Contours on a full Krell system, used Arcam and now CJ, also Linn, and I've never been fatigued or disappointed, great speakers if I say so myself. :) You won't be disappointed in the bottom end either. If you want to go further in mellow give Thiel a listen, they have a sweet sound but I didn't find them terribly bass strong, not lacking, just not strong.
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There are a few older thiel 3.6's for sale on audiogon in your price range.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
I'd suggest something in Dynaudio's Focus series or Contour. I've had my Contours on a full Krell system, used Arcam and now CJ, also Linn, and I've never been fatigued or disappointed, great speakers if I say so myself. :) You won't be disappointed in the bottom end either. If you want to go further in mellow give Thiel a listen, they have a sweet sound but I didn't find them terribly bass strong, not lacking, just not strong.
I have to ride on this one too. The silk tweeters in my Audience 82s and 42s is non fatiguing over long listening periods.
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Maybe some Sonus Faber Concerto's or Vienna Acoustics Haydn's?
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I like the Dynaudio idea very well. I have always liked their stuff and even their budget lines are top notch. B&W speakers have always been bright to me in the upper midrange and treble. I used to sell B&W back in the 90's and while I liked some of the things they did and the detail they presented was addicting at first they never were a speaker I could put real time into listening to for long periods of time due to their brightness. Especially with hard rock or music that has a lot of percussive attack in the cymbals and High hats. We sold Paradigm, and Mirage speakers too and most times people would choose either one of those brands over the B&W's due mostly to listening fatigue over extended listening periods. So I do understand what you are saying about the high end of their speakers all to well. Any of the speakers that the repliers are referring you to will be less fatiguing its just up to you which ones that you will like enough in invest your money in. Take your time and good luck.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koven
Long story short, I've tried both tubes and SS on the Nautilus 805's but the metal tweeter always gets to me after long periods of listening. They do great on vocals/jazz but for faster/bass heavier music, they really leave something to be desired.
I'm looking for something with smoother highs, something that doesn't use a metal tweeter. Fuller bass would be nice too, I found the bass a bit lacking on the 805's, although it wasn't too bad in my 11x15 room.
Whether it's a tower or monitor makes no difference to me, but I do NOT want to add a subwoofer. My budget is about <$2000 on the used market (Audiogon) and my amp is a McIntosh 7100 (100wpc SS).
...
Like I mentioned, I'm looking for something that is non-fatiguing/smooth while retaining the openness/airy sound of the 805's. I've demo'ed a few speakers so far from B&M shops and while most sound smoother, many have a boxy/recessed sound.
Any advice is appreciated, thanks!
The choice if you have the room and listen to mainly accoustic music, (or at least not the "pounding" variety), is the Magneplanar MG 1.6 or possibly the new MG 1.7.
These planars will give you the "non-fatiguing/smooth while retaining the openness/airy sound of the 805's" without the "boxy/recessed" sound.
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Before you start aimlessly and possibly endlessly throwing money around I think you need to get out and listen and perhaps do a complete system re-think and factor in the room size and music you listen to (and think you might one day listen to) and volume level you wish to listen at and the money you're prepared to spend.
Tube vs SS is too simplistic. It depends on the maker and just because it's a big famous name does not mean the results are going to sound good. McIntosh and B&W are big famous audiophile approved names and it has not gotten you there. And they were probably class A or B rated components in Stereophile - which didn't get you there. Such lists are idiotic in my opinion for a number of reason - but those are off topic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
I'd suggest something in Dynaudio's Focus series or Contour. I've had my Contours on a full Krell system, used Arcam and now CJ, also Linn, and I've never been fatigued or disappointed, great speakers if I say so myself. :) You won't be disappointed in the bottom end either. If you want to go further in mellow give Thiel a listen, they have a sweet sound but I didn't find them terribly bass strong, not lacking, just not strong.
I'd also suggest auditioning some Dynaudio Focus Speakers.... I honestly can't imagine you finding them to be bright... they have quite a different sound from the 805s....
I also agree with RGA's advice to audition rather than just purchase.... You may solve your problem with brightness by switching speakers, but that may just lead to a whole different set of problems....
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thanks for the responses
1st, i couldn't pass up on the proac response 1.5's.... i ended up paying $1000 shipped for them, there's no proac dealer near my area and i'm quite curious about their sound after reading so much about it
2nd, i might even pick up the usher x719s for $750 just for comparisons sake... what do you guys think? waste of time/money or worth the comparison?
3rd, i'm going to go demo dynaudio/magnepans this weekend
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Just don't get yourself in such a hurry that you end up with a room full of speakers and out of all of them 1 pair you really want to keep. I do believe that the Ushers are very good and you could get your money back out of them if you liked the proac better. But I would also hate for you to go ahead and order those speakers and then go this weekend and demo the Dyn's or Magi's and fall in love with one of them. The two speakers that would most likely work the best for me would be between the Dynaudio and the ushers because they are not bright. And are very good with all types of music and have less of a dynamic limitation of the magnepans which I am not downing since they are great for what they can do I just do not like speakers that big to have the bass limitations and dynamic limitations that they seem to have. Plus my listening room would be a tight fit with a pair of Magnepans and I don't think i would have room to let them do what they do best. that would be the main factor to look at if I was you when it comes to the magnepans. If your room is big enough and you have enough open area in that room for you to move them around and get them away from the back and side walls like I have heard they do need to get the best out of them. Dynaudio,Paradigm,usher and others are a little more open to placement and also are not as big and room imposing as the magnepans. But you might find that the magnepans give you exactly what you need and are willing to live with them being bigger and the placement demands. Any of the brands we have talked about are going to be vastly different form the B&W's from which you are used to. B&W's to me are great out of the gate but they get real fatiguing after around 30 minutes or so.
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hi harley, i really appreciate your input. i completely agree with you regarding the b&w's and being fatiguing. especially what you said about the hard rock/fast music.. the b&w's do not do well with that kind of music at all.
as for a room full of speakers.. i dont really mind, that's kind of my plan actually. i figure with the used prices i'm paying, i wont' be losing much when i put them back on the market.
another side note, fritz @ fritz speakers is coming to my house with his flagship Carbon 7's ( www.fritzspeakers.com) they use scan-speak drivers and ive heard many good things about them
i'm also working on loaning a demo pair of totem forests from my local dealer
so by next weekend, i should have the following in my room, ready to compare:
proac response 1.5
totem forest
fritz carbon 7
usher x719 (still undecided, have until this weekend to buy b4 he sells to someone else)
and whatever dynaudio/magnepan will let me take home
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I have heard great things about the Scan Speak drivers and they are into SOFT dome tweeters because they are good. I don't know which model of Scan Speak he used but if they are the Revelator series or better they probably will be awesome. I have heard he is good at building speakers but you will be the decision of that. I am not against DIY or knowing a person who is an acomplished speaker builder to show you what you might be missing in your system. That might be pretty cool.
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RGA, just a pat on the back for using great restraint not giving the SET/high efficient speaker speech. :)
Koven, do keep us posted on your impressions of each brand, I'm sure we'd all be interested.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koven
another side note, fritz @ fritz speakers is coming to my house with his flagship Carbon 7's ( www.fritzspeakers.com) they use scan-speak drivers and ive heard many good things about them
Yes, let us know about the Frtiz too, look interesting.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koven
1st, i couldn't pass up on the proac response 1.5's.... i ended up paying $1000 shipped for them, there's no proac dealer near my area and i'm quite curious about their sound after reading so much about it
Have you ever auditioned one of these larger ProAc speakers? I'm a big fan of their smaller speakers, but the larger ones sound boxy to me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koven
hi harley, i really appreciate your input. i completely agree with you regarding the b&w's and being fatiguing. especially what you said about the hard rock/fast music.. the b&w's do not do well with that kind of music at all.
as for a room full of speakers.. i dont really mind, that's kind of my plan actually. i figure with the used prices i'm paying, i wont' be losing much when i put them back on the market.
another side note, fritz @ fritz speakers is coming to my house with his flagship Carbon 7's ( www.fritzspeakers.com) they use scan-speak drivers and ive heard many good things about them
i'm also working on loaning a demo pair of totem forests from my local dealer
so by next weekend, i should have the following in my room, ready to compare:
proac response 1.5
totem forest
fritz carbon 7
usher x719 (still undecided, have until this weekend to buy b4 he sells to someone else)
and whatever dynaudio/magnepan will let me take home
Frankly, I'm jealous...
I wish I had all those speakers in my house to compare :(
ENJOY!!!! And don't forget to let us know your thoughts and what you eventually select....
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For what it's worth I felt the Usher room was one of the better rooms (maybe top 15) at the CES show - of course they were $16,000 speakers but at CES that isn't even expensive:14:
You have not really mentioned what you listen to. If it's rock you can skip the magnepans and save yourself some time. You have not mentioned your budget.
My show report is coming - I have a best budget rooms grouping based on speakers under $10k. I have sent in several pages so far but they need to be edited and pictures fixed up a bit I hope. I looked at my five budget speakers - they're all completely different in size, design shape, power requirements. One is an electrostat, one uses a ribbon, one is a two way box, one is a crossoverless design with funky looks and the other is just funny looking in a Fargo Steve Bushemi kinda way. I didn't think that would happen. Indeed the upper priced best of list may be even more diverse.
I think though that the best stuff seems to start in the $4500 and up camp and not from the usual suspects.
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quick update...
1) totem dealer is dropping off the forests this afternoon
2) fritz brought over his carbon 7's yesterday
3) picked up a pair of joseph audio rm7si locally
4) decided to get the ushers too... so the x-719 and proac response 1.5 will be shipped out to me tomorrow
my 805's have officially been sold. if anyone is interested, i made a video of the 805's playing some music ~two weeks ago, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HI9zO3Mp9I
yeah i know, not even close to how they sound in person but maybe it'll help someone.. i know when i look for new speakers, i like checking for videos on youtube just to get an idea of their sound, although videos like that are scarce
anyway, i'll report back once i play around with the totem/joseph audio/fritz... will snap some pics and if anyone is interested i could probably make a video of each one playing some music too
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Originally Posted by 02audionoob
Have you ever auditioned one of these larger ProAc speakers? I'm a big fan of their smaller speakers, but the larger ones sound boxy to me.
this will be my first time hearing proac speakers... there are no local dealers unfortunately
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio amateur
Yes, let us know about the Frtiz too, look interesting.
the fritz carbon 7's are officially in my room.... fritz actually brought over a brand new pair so i'm giving them some time to burn in.. out of the box, they sound very crisp and open with great resolution.. bass is notable strength, but again, i've only had them for so long i'll reserve my comments until later..
on a side note, it was a great experience chatting with and meeting fritz.. he is very friendly, loves to chat about speakers, no high pressure sales pitch or anything like that... and of course, extremely knowledgeable, i learned a lot from him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGA
For what it's worth I felt the Usher room was one of the better rooms (maybe top 15) at the CES show - of course they were $16,000 speakers but at CES that isn't even expensive:14:
You have not really mentioned what you listen to. If it's rock you can skip the magnepans and save yourself some time. You have not mentioned your budget.
My show report is coming - I have a best budget rooms grouping based on speakers under $10k. I have sent in several pages so far but they need to be edited and pictures fixed up a bit I hope. I looked at my five budget speakers - they're all completely different in size, design shape, power requirements. One is an electrostat, one uses a ribbon, one is a two way box, one is a crossoverless design with funky looks and the other is just funny looking in a Fargo Steve Bushemi kinda way. I didn't think that would happen. Indeed the upper priced best of list may be even more diverse.
I think though that the best stuff seems to start in the $4500 and up camp and not from the usual suspects.
i mainly listen to rock/jazz/vocals/alternative... with some electronic/pop/r&b/rap on the side
my budget is <$2k and do not mind (actually, i prefer) buying used..
i listened to the magnepans this weekend.. it was a very interesting experience.. long story short, i didn't fall in love w/ their sound and i dont think they'd work well in my relatively small room nor would i be giving them enough power... unfortunately they did not have any dynaudios on demo nor would they let me take anything home
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koven
i listened to the magnepans this weekend.. it was a very interesting experience.. long story short, i didn't fall in love w/ their sound and i dont think they'd work well in my relatively small room nor would i be giving them enough power... unfortunately they did not have any dynaudios on demo nor would they let me take anything home
Sounds like my experience with the Maggies... It was a truly 'unique' experience but definitely wasn't my style....
I also had the same problems with the 805s... When I first auditioned the 805S and CM1 they were my favorite speakers.... but after some extended listening sessions I found they irritated my ears... Which is what has kept me from considering buying either of them....
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^ yeah, definitely unique but i dont think it's for me
anyway, totem forests just got dropped off... the mahogany finish is gorgeous
here's a quick shot..... time to do some listening!
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/908...totemfritz.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/427...otemfritz2.jpg
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Did I mention how jealous I am???
If you read the current (or even the old) review(s) of the Forest in Stereophile, they make it clear that the speakers don't sound anywhere near their potential unless you load them (with sand or kitty litter - in a bag inside the speaker, not directly into the cabinet).... So you might want to try loading them before making a final verdict on them...
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