Side-grading from B&W N805, need advice!

[koven]

^ Yeah, I think Totem and Swan both use HiVi drivers.

[koven]

Great space koven! Perfect little nook, I assume the panels keep things more or less neutral? All things being equal in the room, I wonder if any of those speakers would respond better or poorer with any changes. It is however, an ideal space.

Thanks! The room is fairly empty so it sounded really sharp/harsh. The absorbers definitely smoothed out the sound. I think I'm going to add some corner/bass traps soon.

[koven]

As for the Proac vs Fritz... I moved everything else out of the way and did a lot of comparing today between the two.

My initial reaction was to save money and go w/ the Proac's but I think my mind has changed. The Carbon 7's do sound that much better.. I will confirm later though, not 100% sure yet.

[jrhymeammo]

As for the Proac vs Fritz... I moved everything else out of the way and did a lot of comparing today between the two.

My initial reaction was to save money and go w/ the Proac's but I think my mind has changed. The Carbon 7's do sound that much better.. I will confirm later though, not 100% sure yet.

Have you considered the Revelator option?

[audio amateur]

Talk about speaker heaven! Nice showroom you got there!
The ProAc drivers do look similar to SEAS. Doesn't mean they are though.
However, i've always thought Totem used Dynaudio drivers throughout most of their range.

[poppachubby]

DIY bass trap recipe: http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/traps/traps.html

[Mr Peabody]

I was told by a dealer Dynaudio no longer OEM's for other manufacturers. Not sure when this came about but it seems a lot of speaker lines sound would have changed.

[Feanor]

I was told by a dealer Dynaudio no longer OEM's for other manufacturers. Not sure when this came about but it seems a lot of speaker lines sound would have changed.

It's certainly the case that they don't sell for DIY anymore.

As for OEM, they might have "grandfathered" some customers, e.g. Totem (?).

[harley .guy07]

Have you considered the Revelator option?

I have heard many good things about the Madisound Revelator and have given thought to it as well when I get ready for an upgrade. From what I have heard they are some of the best drviers Scan Speak makes and when put together with a top notch crossover and cabinet they are a unstoppable force. I heard people compare them to speakers system in the close to 5 figure mark with good results and Madisound sells the 2 way kit for around 1500 and 2.5 kit for around 2000 dollars. Not bad if you consider price and the floore space the Revelator speakers take up.

[koven]

I was told by a dealer Dynaudio no longer OEM's for other manufacturers. Not sure when this came about but it seems a lot of speaker lines sound would have changed.

I've heard the same.

The drivers in the Totems are Dynaudio replicas called HiVi.

[koven]

Have you considered the Revelator option?

I've asked Fritz about the Revelator upgrade, and he was honest and told me he doesn't think it's worth it. He said he'll charge me extra and put them in if I really want, but his honest opinion was that the current combination he's using has the best results.

[audio amateur]

The new Illuminator series woofers from Scan-Speak look absolutely mental:


Talk about a non conventional motor structure! I believe it can handle plenty of excursion too

[koven]

Yeah, I wish I could hear the Illuminator!

[koven]

okay guys... the proac's are up for sale now

i'm keeping the carbon 7's, they just sound too amazing to pass up

i will write a final summary/conclusion when i have time

[02audionoob]

okay guys... the proac's are up for sale now

i'm keeping the carbon 7's, they just sound too amazing to pass up

i will write a final summary/conclusion when i have time

Are those yours with the story about financial difficulty?

[atomicAdam]

^ yeah, definitely unique but i dont think it's for me

anyway, totem forests just got dropped off... the mahogany finish is gorgeous

here's a quick shot..... time to do some listening!

I see a lot of nice stuff, but how is your power? I heard, over and over again in my own experience and at demos, great equipment turned sour w/ bad power.

[jrhymeammo]

I've asked Fritz about the Revelator upgrade, and he was honest and told me he doesn't think it's worth it. He said he'll charge me extra and put them in if I really want, but his honest opinion was that the current combination he's using has the best results.

Kovan,

I'm glad you are really satisfied with the Carbon 7, and I cannot doubt Fritz's honesty. ( I don't know the man). I don't want to stir you wrong, but he's not the one who decides which tweeter sounds best. It is possible he's just trying to reduce his inventory by selling overstocked items. Then again, we are just talking about a pair of tweeters here.

Don't let anyone decide what sounds best to you. I'm not saying that you are not aware of it. What if Revelators sound best to your ears? After all, you are auditioning tons of different speakers. Higher price tag does NOT guarantee satisfaction in this hobby, but different components change sound characteristic every time.

But I guess if he doesn't have a Revelator pair for demo, then it would be very hard for your audition. Also I doubt you can downgrade to less expensive tweets if you don't prefer the upgraded tweets. Congrats on your final pair (for now). Keep yourself away from the Upgradititus.

JRA

[harley .guy07]

I would still want to hear the revelator series drivers though. I have too much good press about them to not want to hear the revelator drivers before spending a good deal of money of speakers if the revelators were is a design that was good and the price was right.

[koven]

Are those yours with the story about financial difficulty?

yes.. my financial difficulty is that i have too many speakers and need some of my cash back now!

I see a lot of nice stuff, but how is your power? I heard, over and over again in my own experience and at demos, great equipment turned sour w/ bad power.

hi adam, that's a great point but i'm fairly satisfied with my equipment... it may not be high-end, but i wouldn't call it inadequate either.. my amp is a 100wpc SS mcintosh which i think provides plenty of clean power for my relatively small room

i wish i could have taken this one step further and demo'd a bunch of amps along w/ my speakers... but unfortunately i dont have THAT much money to throw around

i really wish i could have tried some tube amps with the proac's... that could have won me over, but oh well, it is what it is, i'm extremely satisfied with the carbon 7's

Kovan,

I'm glad you are really satisfied with the Carbon 7, and I cannot doubt Fritz's honesty. ( I don't know the man). I don't want to stir you wrong, but he's not the one who decides which tweeter sounds best. It is possible he's just trying to reduce his inventory by selling overstocked items. Then again, we are just talking about a pair of tweeters here.

Don't let anyone decide what sounds best to you. I'm not saying that you are not aware of it. What if Revelators sound best to your ears? After all, you are auditioning tons of different speakers. Higher price tag does NOT guarantee satisfaction in this hobby, but different components change sound characteristic every time.

But I guess if he doesn't have a Revelator pair for demo, then it would be very hard for your audition. Also I doubt you can downgrade to less expensive tweets if you don't prefer the upgraded tweets. Congrats on your final pair (for now). Keep yourself away from the Upgradititus.

JRA

hi JRA, i totally understand your point and it's a very valid one. however, i don't think it's an issue of overstocking... fritz builds speakers to order, he does not have a room stocked full of carbon 7's or anything like that.

and yes, i completely agree with the statement that higher price does not equate to better sound... the carbon 7's are a perfect example.. it also goes to show just how big the profit margin is for those large companies like b&w, proac, totem, etc

here's an interesting fact that fritz told me... he's played with plenty of proac response speakers including the new 'D' series and he told me, they actually DOWNGRADED the drivers on the new 'D' series to increase profit.. in the original response series, they used custom Seas drivers of nice quality, but now in the 'D' series, they use drivers that are half the price

as for revelators... plz see my next comment

I would still want to hear the revelator series drivers though. I have too much good press about them to not want to hear the revelator drivers before spending a good deal of money of speakers if the revelators were is a design that was good and the price was right.

hi harley, i agree. when i called fritz to tell him i'm keeping the carbon 7's, i brought up the revelators again.

fritz told me if i really wanted to hear the revelator series, he'll be glad to arrange something. he's also willing to put the carbon 7's in a tower for me.. further more, he's even willing to build a pair w/ the newest Illuminators, if i wanted to hear it

when it comes to sales, i've never dealt with a better person than Fritz. he is the epitome of customer service and the cherry on top, i can confidently say his speakers are giant-killers w/ top notch build quality.. a true hidden gem/diamond in the rough


anyway, like i mentioned earlier, i'll probably spend some time this weekend to write a final summary/conclusion of my "journey", but it'll likely be focused on how and where the carbon 7's excels over the other options i tried

[02audionoob]

Sounds like Fritz's comments on ProAc and their new D series were a bit unprofessional.

[audio amateur]

Wow, Fritz sure is dedicated to his customers!

As far as what Adam was asking about, I think he was refering to the power from the socket, not your amp.

[koven]

Sounds like Fritz's comments on ProAc and their new D series were a bit unprofessional.

i could see why you'd think that, but in the context of our conversation, it was completely appropriate.

if i had the 'D' series in my room, and he was talking down on them, then i could see the motive. but he was actually praising my response 1.5 and even told me that he's cloned them before (many others have too), since they're so great. then from that, we started the discussion about the new 'D' series. it was completely irrelevant to my decision and more of a 'fun fact'.

to be honest, i am not that naive and can tell when someone's pressuring or pitching me something.. i'm good at reading between the lines... this was far from it, more like a friendly conversation between pals, no pressure at all

also, for what it's worth, i know i'm starting to sound like a broken record/fritz salesman, but i have no affiliation or relation to fritz's business. it just so happened that the carbon 7's blew me away so much, that i genuinely want other people to hear it, because they're missing out imo. i've heard talk abuot giant killers but this is the first time i've experienced it for myself.

Wow, Fritz sure is dedicated to his customers!

As far as what Adam was asking about, I think he was refering to the power from the socket, not your amp.

could you elaborate on that? if he's asking if i have a line/power conditioner, i do not. is that what he's referring to?

[02audionoob]

i could see why you'd think that, but in the context of our conversation, it was completely appropriate.

if i had the 'D' series in my room, and he was talking down on them, then i could see the motive. but he was actually praising my response 1.5 and even told me that he's cloned them before (many others have too), since they're so great. then from that, we started the discussion about the new 'D' series. it was completely irrelevant to my decision and more of a 'fun fact'.

to be honest, i am not that naive and can tell when someone's pressuring or pitching me something.. i'm good at reading between the lines... this was far from it, more like a friendly conversation between pals, no pressure at all
...snip..

You missed my point, but that's ok. After your explanation of the context, I stand by what I said.

[koven]

You missed my point, but that's ok. After your explanation of the context, I stand by what I said.

hmm then it's not ok, i'd like to understand your point so please elaborate.

please keep in mind that the discussion on proac's came AFTER i called to tell him i'm keeping the carbon 7's. thus if you're implying that fritz had any influence on my choice to keep the carbon 7's over the proac's, i'd have to say you're wrong. i did hours and hours of a/b listening between the two and my ears are what made the final decision.

however, if you're merely implying it was unprofessional for fritz to even bring up the 'D' series, i do understand you're point now, but i still disagree. i'm the one that asked for his opinion on proac's in the first place. it had no influence on my decision. i dont see it as a big deal nor am i going to jump to any conclusions. fritz' service and ethics have been superb throughout my "journey", do you believe i should toss it all away based on one negative comment about the "competitor"? i just want to know what you're getting at.

[audio amateur]

If he's asking if i have a line/power conditioner, I do not. Is that what he's referring to?

Yes, I think that is what he is refering to. He's been recently review some gear by PS audio (multiway sockets, power cords etc).
Personally I'm a little sceptical about the benefits of this type of accessory.

I really appreciate your thoughts on this shoot out & i'm definitely keeping Fritz's name as a future reference. Oh, and Scan-Speak is now high on my list of speakers to audition.