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im thinking from the sound of these ima want a int or seperates setup thats a little on the warm side. would marantz be a good pick?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
sounds expensive!
this is my first experience with a sealed cab, its def got a different sound to the bass, its not a bad sound. but i still seem to blame things on the lack of power. my amp has tights that cover the watts being pushed ive never seen it so high on the volume i have it at, its strange! its like it almost wants the whole 50 at like 3 out of 10! i normally didnt hit 50 till around 4 1/2
I don't know the exact specs on the machs. They might not be as sensitive as I once thought being that they are a acoustic suspension design. Most acoustic suspension speakers are not as sensitive as their ported cab comparisons so you just might have to have more power for these things to really shine. It sounds like your 50 wpc pioneer just might not have the balls to make them perform at high volumes. I did read that they are capable of high power handling so it sure would not hurt to get something with a little more power. I would say for sure that what your are hearing at high volumes is amp clipping and not a problem with the speakers.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
im thinking from the sound of these ima want a int or seperates setup thats a little on the warm side. would marantz be a good pick?
Marantz products for the most part are of good quality and have heard good and bad things depending on the model in question. But for the most part a Marantz int. or seperates usually rate high and have good clean power. As far as the warm sound that you are looking for I have not worked with Marantz enough to know about a given models sound. Someone else might know that one.
I would look around for a used poduct that fits the power that you want then find someone who has worked with said product to find out how the unit will work with your speakers. I have worked with Yamaha, Denon, Adcom and countless others but Marantz was never a brand that I worked with that much. I know that as far as integrated amps Yamaha and Denon both have products that I think would fill the bill and used could be had at a decent price. I have heard some people say that some of yamaha amps are bright but I have heard a lot of there receivers and integrated amps and I never heard this brightness that these few people have said.
I have used the yamaha int. amps on several horn driven Klipsch and Vega's and I always had good results.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
model numbers??
If memory serves me correctly the Yamaha ax 570 was the one that most people chose. It had good power and 100 wpc at 8 ohms and was stable to 2 ohms whether the specs say that or not we tested it ourselves an it could handle it. Its dynamic power is very good for the money. Better than any AV receiver in the under 1000 dollar class. And probably better than ones more expensive for the most part. It has all the options one would need but stays very simple in its form. There are better int. amps out there but at the price this amp can be had for(I have seen it for 150 o less), it is a very good powerhouse to be had. We sold a ton of them when I managed the audio shop because of the solid build and clean sound. And memory serves me right we only had one come back and it was due to an upgrade to the z1 receiver not because the unit failed. Yamaha products are very reliable and we hardly had anything returned to the store for service. But that was years ago and I can not speak for the Newest yamaha stuff.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley .guy07
If memory serves me correctly the Yamaha ax 570 was the one that most people chose. It had good power and 100 wpc at 8 ohms and was stable to 2 ohms whether the specs say that or not we tested it ourselves an it could handle it. Its dynamic power is very good for the money. Better than any AV receiver in the under 1000 dollar class. And probably better than ones more expensive for the most part. It has all the options one would need but stays very simple in its form. There are better int. amps out there but at the price this amp can be had for(I have seen it for 150 o less), it is a very good powerhouse to be had. We sold a ton of them when I managed the audio shop because of the solid build and clean sound. And memory serves me right we only had one come back and it was due to an upgrade to the z1 receiver not because the unit failed. Yamaha products are very reliable and we hardly had anything returned to the store for service. But that was years ago and I can not speak for the Newest yamaha stuff.
i found a 570 for 110 on ebay...freeshipping
yeah think this little amps gotta go, i turned the loudness off and turned the bass to 75% and i cant even hear toms in music its lost all bass definition. it cleaned up the tweet and midrange alot, but took all the power from the woofer!
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this is a list of my options as of right now on CL
Marantz SR-82 MK II (a/v) 100 bucks obo
this lot for 140 obo
•Craig Pioneer Stereo 8 Track (Vintage and It Works)
•Pioneer FM Quartz Locked Stereo Receiver, 290 Watts, SX 3700 (Works but contacts on volume need repair)
•Panasonic XBS Stereo/Radio Cassette Player (Works)
•Kenwood 5 Disc CD Player (Works)
•Panasonic Speakers SBAK 100 (Works)
•KLH 9362, 80 Watt Satellite Speakers (Works)
•Subwoofer with 4 Satellite Speakers (Works)
Onkyo AR-V401
& Rotel RCD-965BX CD player for 225
anything good in here?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
this is a list of my options as of right now on CL
Marantz SR-82 MK II (a/v) 100 bucks obo
this lot for 140 obo
•Craig Pioneer Stereo 8 Track (Vintage and It Works)
•Pioneer FM Quartz Locked Stereo Receiver, 290 Watts, SX 3700 (Works but contacts on volume need repair)
•Panasonic XBS Stereo/Radio Cassette Player (Works)
•Kenwood 5 Disc CD Player (Works)
•Panasonic Speakers SBAK 100 (Works)
•KLH 9362, 80 Watt Satellite Speakers (Works)
•Subwoofer with 4 Satellite Speakers (Works)
Onkyo AR-V401
& Rotel RCD-965BX CD player for 225
anything good in here?
I have tried to find any info on this stuff and am having a hard time finding anything. I would stick to looking harder at the okyo-rotel, or the marantz sr-82. They seem to be a better bet to me. As far as i they are worth that much I don't know and could not find any specs on either of the amps. I would hit the amp forum and put them both up their and see if anyone has owned any of these and see what their experiences were. Me myself I would look at the Onkyo,rotel the closest since I have worked with both brands and while they both have bad bad apples in their lines they have made some very good products as well. Just make sure what ever you choose it will have the balls to push your machs much harder than your old Pioneer can. Or you will not be happy and be on the prowl for different stuff all over again.
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I will say the price on that 570 seems to be a pretty good price and I know that this unit will power the machs way better than your pioneer. I had a guy buy one from me and he ran four older vega d-9's and he said it powered them really good. I know the vega'a can handle very high power but he said that the 570 powered them great. I never actually went to his house and heard it for myself but I do know that the 570 is 2 ohm stable and has good dynamic power for this the price range it was in.
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sounds good. ill look into the yammy! the guy with the onkyo/rotel says he powered some dynaudio's with um and they sounded good! i do rekin dynaudio are good speakers right? and arnt most onkyos high current powered?
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i can buy the piece that goes around the woofers right? that covers the the metal? I wanna replace that while im refoaming, its old and ugly!
Im going to sand the inside corners and stain them while im doing the rest of the speaker. or i might put black vinal where that it, it might look nice! that would cost like 2 to five bucks for the vinal i think, but im bad at gluing things lol.
should i rent or borrow a sander or hand sand them?
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I've owned and handled some Yamaha and my impressions are that they have a bass response that lacks detail, the response is loose and lacks form , the mids are better than their average competitor with a more natural tone, and I have not noticed them being bright either. I had an old Yamaha integrated that made me lose a lot of respect for Yamaha. I think it may have been an AX-7 maybe. It had a silver face and large ugly yellow and green lights on front which I think were buttons. What urked me is one of those lights went out and the amp quit working. Luckily it was bought used from a store that gave a 30 day warranty and I was still covered. The tech who fixed it said it was just one of the lights need replaced. What kind of insanity would cause some one to build an amp so that when a light went out the amp wouldn't play?
When you are ready to jump at an amp those Adcom can't hardly be beat at the price they sell for used. They hold true to their power rating and have a solid bottom end for Rock.
Harley, you have experience with Rotel, in comparison to other brands do you find their presentation a bit sluggish? They sound pleasant no doubt about that but when I put music on their systems I'm familiar with it makes the band sound like they are playing after being up days without sleep. The presentation just lacks energy or snap.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
sounds good. ill look into the yammy! the guy with the onkyo/rotel says he powered some dynaudio's with um and they sounded good! i do rekin dynaudio are good speakers right? and arnt most onkyos high current powered?
If he powered some dynaudios with it it must have some balls because most dynaudio speakers are pretty hard to drive good. They are very good speakers. Dynaudio used to only make drivers for other speaker manufacturers but decided after years of doing that for other people that they could make a speaker line and with the experience in building drivers they have made quite a reputation as full line speakers builders. They are quite good.
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If that Rotel CDP isn't that many years old it would be a pretty good deal. Not familiar with that model Onkyo but as Harley noted if it drove Dyn's it's got some juice. I had a little Onkyo 48 watt receiver and I was really impressed how it drove my Kappa 7's which were only 89dB efficient and a sealed cabinet with 12's.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
Thats a good way of saving a few bucks. thats a plus when your young and on your own!
I found a dynaco mark 3 (2) amps and a pas 3 pre amp for 450 bucks!!!!
i know its all tube, but for some odd reason that sounds like a really good price me!
it looks like it really needs to be cleaned up, but all works!
I wont spimp on the receiver, I plan on getting each speaker at a time. so that i can put the most money into everything i want instead of getting what i can afford at the moment. if i get the towers first, i can rock two channel. if i get the center next i can rock 3 channel, then get the surrounds, then the sub. idek if i can get a sub where im moving, i might not even need one honestly. I thought there was almost to much bass from my little jbls and there not exactly quality. and with apartments, subs can get you in alot of trouble.
I live in a apartment with firewalls and concrete between the floors and i got notices every other day for my little 100 watt 8 inch powered sub (radio shack brand, was 60 bucks, said why not =])
so i had to sell it!
i bought a close out system on get this crap out of here sale for like 200, used it for 2 months, sold it for 275....without the surrounds!
gotta get that paper!:9: :9:
It's more than likely that the Dynaco gear will need extensive work to perform to spec. Gear that old always needs to have any electrolytic capacitors replaced. The controls on the PAS-3 will need thorough cleaning at minimum. For the price you quoted the 3 pieces should be in very good to excellent condition. $350 to $375 is a more reasonable price.
I'm quite familiar with Dynaco gear. The factory was 3 blocks from my house when it was in Philadelphia. I've built most of their kits and modified others. The MK-III's I use to drive my Acoustats have been extensively modified. They have new input driver boards I designed and built, soft start solid state fully regulated power supplies and other goodies. The only thing left from the original MK-III's is the transformers. I've even changed the case work. The PAS-3 is still quite popular with a lot of vintage enthusiasts.
IOW: Old Dyna gear can be good but it probably needs work.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
I've owned and handled some Yamaha and my impressions are that they have a bass response that lacks detail, the response is loose and lacks form , the mids are better than their average competitor with a more natural tone, and I have not noticed them being bright either. I had an old Yamaha integrated that made me lose a lot of respect for Yamaha. I think it may have been an AX-7 maybe. It had a silver face and large ugly yellow and green lights on front which I think were buttons. What urked me is one of those lights went out and the amp quit working. Luckily it was bought used from a store that gave a 30 day warranty and I was still covered. The tech who fixed it said it was just one of the lights need replaced. What kind of insanity would cause some one to build an amp so that when a light went out the amp wouldn't play?
When you are ready to jump at an amp those Adcom can't hardly be beat at the price they sell for used. They hold true to their power rating and have a solid bottom end for Rock.
Harley, you have experience with Rotel, in comparison to other brands do you find their presentation a bit sluggish? They sound pleasant no doubt about that but when I put music on their systems I'm familiar with it makes the band sound like they are playing after being up days without sleep. The presentation just lacks energy or snap.
Thats weird that your yamaha did that Mr. Peabody. I sold them for years and we did not have very many returns on their products. Especially their integrated amps. I sold quite a few of them and I think I only had one return and it was not due to it going bad it was to upgrade.
I love my Adcom and would put it against a Rotel in a heartbeat. Some of rotels stuff is good but every time we lined up a Adcom and Rotel for comparison the Adcom always came out on top. Its just a more well rounded component. If I were looking for an amp and wanted the best amp for the money on the used market Adcom would definitely be the one I would pick. My 545 mk2 is about 14 years old now and sounds as good now as the day I bought it. And everything I have thought about replacing it with just did not do any better and sometimes worse. You have to spend quite a bit of money to do much better than an adcom. I have looked inside mine to clean it several times and am impressed by how well its built. minimal jumper wires and well designed circuits and a very stout capacitor bank for only being rated at 100 wpc. But that shows in their dynamic power capabilities. I've even thought about buying another one just like it to bi amp my speakers just to see the improvement. My only question is how to make my yamaha receiver with only one set of main pre outs send enough of a signal to two seperate amps without lowering the preamp voltage to each amp to the point where I would have to crank the hell out of my yamaha to get good voltage. If you have an idea let me know because it is something I've thought about.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewillisdead112
i can buy the piece that goes around the woofers right? that covers the the metal? I wanna replace that while im refoaming, its old and ugly!
Im going to sand the inside corners and stain them while im doing the rest of the speaker. or i might put black vinal where that it, it might look nice! that would cost like 2 to five bucks for the vinal i think, but im bad at gluing things lol.
should i rent or borrow a sander or hand sand them?
yes you can find a replacement for the padded ring aound them. Probably in the same place you found the refoam kit.
If you can get your hands on a orbital sander and just take your time and be careful not to gouge them.
The vinyl idea might work but vinyl shows any surface imperfection that is under it so I would make sure everything is smooth on the cabs before doing so.
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harley .guy07:
Have you thought about using an electronic crossover for your bi-amping? The Behringer
Super-X Pro CX3210 two way crossover is less than $100 from parts express. It uses XLR's for input and output so you would need either adaptors or cables with RCA's and XLR's.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
harley .guy07:
Have you thought about using an electronic crossover for your bi-amping? The Behringer
Super-X Pro CX3210 two way crossover is less than $100 from parts express. It uses XLR's for input and output so you would need either adaptors or cables with RCA's and XLR's.
Its been a thought. I even thought about doing away with the internal Paradigm crossovers all together and use an electronic crossover for the monitor 7's I don't think it will cause any problems and it will sure sound better bi amping. Its been something used in car audio for ever but it seems never really caught hold in the home audio area. Plus electronic crossovers will give me the extra drive to power both amps and the crossovers being before the power stage will be cleaner and won't rob any power.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
harley .guy07:
Have you thought about using an electronic crossover for your bi-amping? The Behringer
Super-X Pro CX3210 two way crossover is less than $100 from parts express. It uses XLR's for input and output so you would need either adaptors or cables with RCA's and XLR's.
I actually looked at the Behringer unit and it looks good but the impedance on xlr inputs does not match that of rca cables. You can get impedance matching xlr to rca adapters but they are not cheap and I am afraid that changing impedance's going into and out of the crossover will degrade my original signal from my Yamaha. I think if I wanted to do a electronic crossover I would be better to get a ac to dc generator and power a good quality car audio electronic crossover that actually usses rca jacks and has gain controls.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
harley .guy07:
Have you thought about using an electronic crossover for your bi-amping? The Behringer
Super-X Pro CX3210 two way crossover is less than $100 from parts express. It uses XLR's for input and output so you would need either adaptors or cables with RCA's and XLR's.
I think for right now I am going to stay with a single amp. I am thinking of upgrading my main speakers so I will see where I am at after I get that done. I am also thinking of getting into the vinyl thing so I am looking at turntables and preamps. New or Vintage really does not matter to me as long as it sounds good, looks good and can be modified to sound even better later. I think these are more important objectives right now than trying to bi amp speakers that I am thinking about retiring to rear speaker duty anyway.
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Typically the impedance on single ended line level inputs is around 20 to 25K Ohms. Balanced connections are usually twice that because true balanced connections feed differential inputs. Output impedance on single ended connections is usually in the 100 Ohm or so area, balanced usually being twice that.
This means that in practice the only problem that may occur is that most balanced inputs are looking for a signal with greater amplitude. This is not really a problem because the Behringer has input level controls. The differing input impedance's between balanced and single ended are not an issue.
As for the cables, the only reason shielding is used on single ended cables is for RFI rejection. There is no spec for impedance on interconnects. It is not the same as RG type cables which have a spec such as 50 Ohm for RG-58 or 75 Ohm for RG-59 The Kimber Silver Streak interconnects I use have no shielding at all. If RFI is not a problem ordinary lamp cord could be used for interconnects.
BTW: The main reason for balanced connections is because hum and noise in cables tends to be picked up by the plus and minus lines equally. Balanced inputs are differential in operation. IE: They amplify the difference between the two signals. Hum and noise being common to both it gets rejected. The spec for this is known as CMRR. Common Mode Rejection Ratio.
All this is to say your concerns about impedance mismatching are unfounded.
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The Yamaha integrated I spoke of was from the 70's and when I bought it I looked it up and retail was around $699.00. I agree that Yamaha is reliable. The beef I had was the fact that the amp would quit if the bulb burnt on that light. Back in the day of Pro Logic I had a Yamaha processor with built in 80x3 watt amps and never had a bit of trouble with it. I eventually sold it and moved into 5.1.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley .guy07
I think for right now I am going to stay with a single amp. I am thinking of upgrading my main speakers so I will see where I am at after I get that done. I am also thinking of getting into the vinyl thing so I am looking at turntables and preamps. New or Vintage really does not matter to me as long as it sounds good, looks good and can be modified to sound even better later. I think these are more important objectives right now than trying to bi amp speakers that I am thinking about retiring to rear speaker duty anyway.
While I was typing my last post you posted again. Vinyl is my primary source. With 3.5K LP's and more being bought it will be my primary source for some time to come.
Is there anything you have in mind for a TT and preamp? If you need only a phono preamp The Pro-Ject Phono Box II accommodates MC and MM cartridges. At $159 it's very reasonably priced. Of course the term "reasonable" is relative.
SPDIF and video connections are specified for 75 Ohm connections/cables. In actual practice with short lengths (<1 Meter) of wire, 16 gauge zip cord will work.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
Typically the impedance on single ended line level inputs is around 20 to 25K Ohms. Balanced connections are usually twice that because true balanced connections feed differential inputs. Output impedance on single ended connections is usually in the 100 Ohm or so area, balanced usually being twice that.
This means that in practice the only problem that may occur is that most balanced inputs are looking for a signal with greater amplitude. This is not really a problem because the Behringer has input level controls. The differing input impedance's between balanced and single ended are not an issue.
As for the cables, the only reason shielding is used on single ended cables is for RFI rejection. There is no spec for impedance on interconnects. It is not the same as RG type cables which have a spec such as 50 Ohm for RG-58 or 75 Ohm for RG-59 The Kimber Silver Streak interconnects I use have no shielding at all. If RFI is not a problem ordinary lamp cord could be used for interconnects.
BTW: The main reason for balanced connections is because hum and noise in cables tends to be picked up by the plus and minus lines equally. Balanced inputs are differential in operation. IE: They amplify the difference between the two signals. Hum and noise being common to both it gets rejected. The spec for this is known as CMRR. Common Mode Rejection Ratio.
All this is to say your concerns about impedance mismatching are unfounded.
Rather well explained. I did not know if this would be a problem or not. Parts express does sell xlr to rca adapters and I might do this at some time being that I could get another 545 mk2 used for a rather cheap price and since i already have one it would be a great thing to have 2. Then the only question would be is to use one for the left woofers and tweets and one for the right. Or use on for the lows and one for the highs of both speakers. I guess its just a matter of opinion.
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