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  1. #1
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    PMC TB2S+ in for listening

    I just got dropped off the PMC TB2S+ speakers for some listening time. I am not reviewing them, but they are a predecessor to a set I will be reviewing. But that doesn't mean I can't give a heads up on the forums.

    I've literally just got them in today, and they aren't fully broken in. They are studio monitor speakers, and surely, so far, reflect that dead neutral simi lifeless sound I've heard in many a studio speaker.

    Which got me wondering about something - HiFi speakers vs Pro Audio Studio Monitors. Why is there a difference? I should state - I have my own opinion on way the diff, but curious what others think. Maybe STtT can shed some light?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PMC TB2S+ in for listening-pmc.jpg  

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I agree with your observation that monitors can sound neutral and semi lifeless. Great for judging recordings but not always fun for music. I have the Mo Fi OML 1's but I enjoy the Monitor Audio RS6's on a broader range of music.
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    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  3. #3
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Actually, alot of audiophiles are looking for "neutral" in their reference system. This makes sure that each recording can sound as it should, rather than every recording having a monotonous, coloured sound. The "lifeless" bit, what exactly do you mean? In a studio, the engineer must be 100% certain of what he is hearing. Again, too much colour added from a speaker would be disastrous for a recording.

    I'm also guessing that they are more unforgiving than "lifeless". Your chain and source material must play the entire role of sounding good. Perhaps try playing some of your better, more livelier recordings and see if it improves at all.

    To give you an example. I use AKG K240S headphones, roughly every couple of days or so. Their biggest trait, is neutrality, or essentially, "junk in, junk out". It's always crazy to me how I can listen to a digital file or CD through my comp system, and it sounds sweet as honey. Through my headphones? The same info will almost be unlistenable. I have to be very selective with my listening choices for these headphones.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular YBArcam's Avatar
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    I really love the PMC TB2i. It's the best speaker that I've heard to date. I've heard more expensive ones, maybe some of which people would say are better, but none that captured my imagination like the PMC did. One day I'm pretty sure that I'll buy a pair. I didn't find them unforgiving or exceptionally revealing. Just really sweet sounding, especially the SEAS tweeter, which was not harsh or overpowering at all. A very musical, engaging, and lush sound. Yes, not what one would expect from a studio monitor speaker (or at least one derived from one). I had them partnered with gear much lower quality than the PMC's (a Denon UD-M50 minisystem served as preamp and CD player, an Audiolab 8000S as power amp).

    It's been a while since I heard them, and my listening experience has increased dramatically since then. I'd love to hear the PMC's partnered with my current gear. Maybe my opinion today would be different. But I remember when I had them I couldn't stop trying out different albums, they all sounded so great.
    Last edited by YBArcam; 03-20-2010 at 07:04 PM.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I pulled out the OML's this morning and put them on stands far into the room. In the old apartment I had them on the long wall and they had plenty of distance from the side walls. I remembered enjoying them but had not been happy in the new place. The speakers are now against the short wall and too close to the corners. Now 1/3 into the room some of the magic is back. The Monitor Audio RS6's do well tucked in a little more but the MoFi's need to be out and free. Free space has taken care of that semi-lifeless sound I had before.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  6. #6
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicAdam
    I just got dropped off the PMC TB2S+ speakers for some listening time. I am not reviewing them, but they are a predecessor to a set I will be reviewing. But that doesn't mean I can't give a heads up on the forums.

    I've literally just got them in today, and they aren't fully broken in. They are studio monitor speakers, and surely, so far, reflect that dead neutral simi lifeless sound I've heard in many a studio speaker.
    I think many people mistake accuracy for lifelessness.With PMC speakers you get exactly what you put in to it, and that goes for your choice of cables, processing and amps. I say let them break in a while and see if you feel they are still lifeless.

    Which got me wondering about something - HiFi speakers vs Pro Audio Studio Monitors. Why is there a difference? I should state - I have my own opinion on way the diff, but curious what others think. Maybe STtT can shed some light?
    In the studio accuracy and neutrality rule when you choose a monitoring speaker. The quality of your work depends on this. A speaker that "injects" its own sonic signature on your mixes will profoundly effect how you mix, and how it plays back on other speakers. My belief is to mix, track and monitor on a accurate and neutral sound system, and let the end users system supply the needed personal spice.
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  7. #7
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Now that I have the MoFi's out and playing I remember what I liked about them. Of course they do have to be further out to sound their best. I will listen to them for several more days and switch between the MA's before I decide. The smaller speaker needs more space than the floor stander.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PMC TB2S+ in for listening-stereo-001x4.jpg  
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
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    Monitor Audio RS6
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    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  8. #8
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    John what did I miss? I haven't checked your speaker thread. Are these new? They look great and for the room are probably a perfect size. In terms of your amps output, that's another thing. Maybe no more stereo battles with your neighbour...

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    John what did I miss? I haven't checked your speaker thread. Are these new? They look great and for the room are probably a perfect size. In terms of your amps output, that's another thing. Maybe no more stereo battles with your neighbour...


    Poppachubby the speakers had been hiding under the bed. I have owned them for awhile and became dissatisfied with their sound. I was thinking the other morning if they might be defective in some way since I enjoyed them in the previous apartment. Placing them where the Monitor Audio RS 6's are now caused some problems with the sound. There was a lot of cancellation of some frequencies. The sound lost focus and some frequencies were greatly diminished to the point where you wondered where some of the musicians went.

    I brought the stands out and put the speakers on them to evaluate. I was not paying much attention to placement since I just wanted to hear if the drivers were all working correctly. All of a sudden the magic was back. I have been listening to them again instead of the RS6's. My dilema being do I want to have speakers that far into the room? The bass is better now than when I used them closer to the rear wall. The very solid little cabinet does a nicer job in some ways over the resonating larger cabinet of the floor standers. The soundstage has greater depth with the stand mount speakers.

    I am going to continue to play around with them and the RS6's. I am not sure which pair might end up in the closet.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  10. #10
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    So you're saying your speakers got "outed", from the closet none the less. Hmmm...to joke or not to....

    Not sure how good a suggestion this is, but I use the Magic Slider for my rack. It weighs a ton and slides across thin carpet with a bit of effort. Perhaps a set of discreet magic sliders, and simply slide them out for a session. Only problem will be the top heaviness.

    BTW, PM me about the Fest. I'm thinking we should book something soon. You into splitting for the night?

  11. #11
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    Now that I have the MoFi's out and playing I remember what I liked about them. Of course they do have to be further out to sound their best. I will listen to them for several more days and switch between the MA's before I decide. The smaller speaker needs more space than the floor stander.

    John are the MoFi's true studio monitors? I didn't think they where. I think they show lots of emotion and passion unlike a true studio monitor like PMC which have to be neutral...or sterile.

    frenchmon
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  12. #12
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon
    John are the MoFi's true studio monitors? I didn't think they where. I think they show lots of emotion and passion unlike a true studio monitor like PMC which have to be neutral...or sterile.

    frenchmon

    My understanding is Mobile Fidelity used them to monitor their recordings. Thought they were very good and brought them to market.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
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  13. #13
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicAdam
    I just got dropped off the PMC TB2S+ speakers for some listening time. I am not reviewing them, but they are a predecessor to a set I will be reviewing. But that doesn't mean I can't give a heads up on the forums.

    I've literally just got them in today, and they aren't fully broken in. They are studio monitor speakers, and surely, so far, reflect that dead neutral simi lifeless sound I've heard in many a studio speaker.

    Which got me wondering about something - HiFi speakers vs Pro Audio Studio Monitors. Why is there a difference? I should state - I have my own opinion on way the diff, but curious what others think. Maybe STtT can shed some light?


    Adam when I first brought my OML's out to give a listen I also placed them on top of the RS6's. Of course I was too far below the tweeter and they sounded dull. Once I put them on stands they were more balanced and lively. I would also suggest that you remove the grills if you have not already and listen to them that way.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  14. #14
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    So you're saying your speakers got "outed", from the closet none the less. Hmmm...to joke or not to....

    BTW, PM me about the Fest. I'm thinking we should book something soon. You into splitting for the night?

    PM on the way.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  15. #15
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    Adam when I first brought my OML's out to give a listen I also placed them on top of the RS6's. Of course I was too far below the tweeter and they sounded dull. Once I put them on stands they were more balanced and lively. I would also suggest that you remove the grills if you have not already and listen to them that way.

    Yes JM I have already done that. Plus I also moved them back out of the center of the room a bit and it seems to have helped with the low end. Though I'm not saying this is final placement.

    I'm not sure they have yet to get rid of that deadish sound but they still need time. Right now they are playing Franz Schubert's Piano Music for Four Hands | Duo Tal & Groethuysen from Sony Classical through the Trends Audio PA10 headphone/pre-amp and Trends Audio T-10.2 amplifier. After a bit of a rough start with the amp volume settings things seems to be sounding ok.

    Some photos -
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PMC TB2S+ in for listening-pmc-trends.jpg   PMC TB2S+ in for listening-trendspowersupplytandpa10_amps.jpg  

  16. #16
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    Sorry those photos are not hotlinked in - not sure why it did that.....

  17. #17
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    I suppose this is a work around - stupid vB


    Sorry the image is blurry - too dark in the room at the moment for a clear photo.


  18. #18
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Hey adam, I'm guessing the PMC's are active, so what are you using with the TA-10.2 with? The RS6's perhaps? How does it compare to the amp you usually use?

  19. #19
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    Hey adam, I'm guessing the PMC's are active, so what are you using with the TA-10.2 with? The RS6's perhaps? How does it compare to the amp you usually use?
    No, they are passive speakers.

    At the moment I am using the T10.2 with them. I've only had a few hours with the T10.2. It did smooth out a bit in those couple hours, but it really needs a break in, I figure. At first it was putting out some rather distorted bass and pretty ugly sounds. But by the end of the night it was playing Kind of Blue well. But really, to early to have an opinion at this point.

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