When buying speakers can you expect a discount off the retail price

[darth2222]

How do you neggotiate with HT stores when it comes to speakers. Whats the normal procedure and what kind of discount to expect im looking to buy paradigm from a local audio video store any suggestions would be helpful

[Florian]

I never expect a cheap deal or a discount. I save up for the product i want to buy, and if the price is high then i just have so save a little more.

[Woochifer]

That would all depend on the store and how much you intend to buy from them. I know that Best Buy sales reps for example have very little leeway to offer discounts to customers. The most you can expect from them would be a price match on an item that a competing store is selling for less.

With a specialty store, the likelihood of discounting increases as you package more items into your purchase. This gives you an additional negotiating point, like offering to also buy the center speaker if they give you the mains for $X price. It would also depend on whether you're getting the speaker out of the store's inventory, or if they have to special order the item. And if a certain color is not in high demand, there might be an unadvertised discount from the factory. This happened a few months ago with some of Paradigm's Signature series models where speakers with certain finishes that were slow sellers got discounted. And if a certain model is getting closed out, then that too is a chance at a discount.

Keep in mind that Paradigm's dealers have territorial exclusivity agreements in place that limit the degree to which their stores can compete with one another on price. You might be able to get 15% off if things line up right, but I would not necessarily count on that. The Paradigm Studio series is one of the better value speakers out there, and their dealers know that.

[RGA]

There is a book called something like "Everything is negotiable" and it is in one way or another -- price matching at big box chains is a form of it because you are telling them that they have to match or you won't buy it.

At high end stores you have far more room to negotiate than large box chains who "claim" to make little profit so they hard sell cables and warranties.

At high end stores -- you can get pretty much everything inthere for 20% off -- you simply have to spend a LOT of time in there and let it be known that the sound is not great but pretty good blah blah and if you are good at the game and they think if you leave you are not coming back you'll see the price come down. You'd be surprised how cheap you can get things for. I had $5k speakers being discussed and I had them down to $2600.00 but ultimately I did not care for the sound. I discussed Martin Logans and had them down 50% from retail. I passed up a brand new in box Paradigm Studio 100V2 which retailed for around $1900.00 down to $1050 and with the nicer wood finish to boot.

I'm in Korea and the same thing here -- a Designer set of Bulgari frames going for $450.00 with lenses an additional $100.00. My friend here got them down to $250.00 including the lenses and a second set of lenses (prescription) along with a special screwdriver to replace them. How many people just pay the sticker -- my guess is most.

The more expensive it is the more you can talk them down. The B&W N801 retails for $14000.00Canadian -- I can get them down to $8,000.00 which is what some people pay for used ones out of warranty.

[darth2222]

Thanks for the info
is there an online site that shows websites for a number of stores

[paul_pci]

If you have a speaker brand in mind, you can go to that manufacturer's website and do a dealer locator search.

[njspeer]

I've found the best way to negotiate price is: First figure out exactly what you want. Then, second, try to get as many people competing for your business as possible (try Froogle and eBay); email all reputable online sellers and ask them for a quotes. Use the lowest quote as leverage against the higher quotes. Try to figure out what the wholesale cost is to give you a lower limit on the price. This will also help you identify scams. Online, a typical markup for consumer electronics is 10%. Exotic speakers could have a much higher markup, maybe as high as 100%. If you have a local place you would prefer to patronize, save them for last so they can price match your best online quote. I've found that for many items, you can find someone on eBay selling it new for close to wholesale. Also, when comparing prices, make sure to include all expenses and values (taxes, shipping, warranty ect.). Many online deals don't come with warranties. However, most warranties have so many disclaimers they're worthless anyway.

To calculate the value of a warranty use the formula

V = P*R,

where V is the value of the warranty, P is the probability of the item failing in such a way that it's actually covered by the warranty, and R is the average replacement/repair cost. When calculating replacement cost make sure to include the residual value of the old item. For example if you buy an iPod for $300, it's probably still worth $100 broken. So the replacement cost would only be $200 after you sold your broken iPod on eBay.

Second Example: Suppose you're thinking about buying a pair of $3,000 speakers locally, and you can buy the same pair online for $2,500 (shipped no warranty). Assuming sales tax is 8%, your two costs are $3,240 (after tax) if purchased locally, and $2500 if purchased online (a difference of $740-V ). Of course if you tell your local dealer you're thinking about buying online without the warranty, he'll act like purchasing a pair of speakers without a warranty is like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute, and he'll immediately tell you story after story about how crappy the speakers are, and how everyone that's ever bought them has saved thousands of dollars by having the warranty, because all they do is break all the time.

So the big question is: is the warranty really worth $740? Probably not. Let's assume that 5% of these particular type of speakers are sent in for repairs which are covered by the warranty. let's also assume the average cost of repair is $500. Then your warranty is worth $500*0.05 = $25. So the warranty is only worth $25. Therefor, you should give the local store a chance to match the online price (or at least get close), and if they won't, buy it online and save $715.

Oh yeah, and make sure not to get ripped off. Don't buy from some fly-by night store, or from someone on eBay with little feed back, or high negatives. Always apply the "if it's too good to be true" test. I.e use commons sense. If all the reputable sources online are selling the speakers for $2500-2600, and you see some website selling it for $1200; that's probably way below wholesale, and it's a scam. Moreover, if you buy online always pay with a credit card. Never pay with a check, money order, check card, debit card, cash, or W. Union ect.

Anyway, that's what I do. I hope this helps.

[Woochifer]

I've found the best way to negotiate price is: First figure out exactly what you want. Then, second, try to get as many people competing for your business as possible (try Froogle and eBay); email all reputable online sellers and ask them for a quotes. Use the lowest quote as leverage against the higher quotes. Try to figure out what the wholesale cost is to give you a lower limit on the price. This will also help you identify scams. Online, a typical markup for consumer electronics is 10%. Exotic speakers could have a much higher markup, maybe as high as 100%. If you have a local place you would prefer to patronize, save them for last so they can price match your best online quote. I've found that for many items, you can find someone on eBay selling it new for close to wholesale. Also, when comparing prices, make sure to include all expenses and values (taxes, shipping, warranty ect.). Many online deals don't come with warranties. However, most warranties have so many disclaimers they're worthless anyway.

To calculate the value of a warranty use the formula

V = P*R,

where V is the value of the warranty, P is the probability of the item failing in such a way that it's actually covered by the warranty, and R is the average replacement/repair cost. When calculating replacement cost make sure to include the residual value of the old item. For example if you buy an iPod for $300, it's probably still worth $100 broken. So the replacement cost would only be $200 after you sold your broken iPod on eBay.

Second Example: Suppose you're thinking about buying a pair of $3,000 speakers locally, and you can buy the same pair online for $2,500 (shipped no warranty). Assuming sales tax is 8%, your two costs are $3,240 (after tax) if purchased locally, and $2500 if purchased online (a difference of $740-V ). Of course if you tell your local dealer you're thinking about buying online without the warranty, he'll act like purchasing a pair of speakers without a warranty is like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute, and he'll immediately tell you story after story about how crappy the speakers are, and how everyone that's ever bought them has saved thousands of dollars by having the warranty, because all they do is break all the time.

So the big question is: is the warranty really worth $740? Probably not. Let's assume that 5% of these particular type of speakers are sent in for repairs which are covered by the warranty. let's also assume the average cost of repair is $500. Then your warranty is worth $500*0.05 = $25. So the warranty is only worth $25. Therefor, you should give the local store a chance to match the online price (or at least get close), and if they won't, buy it online and save $715.

Oh yeah, and make sure not to get ripped off. Don't buy from some fly-by night store, or from someone on eBay with little feed back, or high negatives. Always apply the "if it's too good to be true" test. I.e use commons sense. If all the reputable sources online are selling the speakers for $2500-2600, and you see some website selling it for $1200; that's probably way below wholesale, and it's a scam. Moreover, if you buy online always pay with a credit card. Never pay with a check, money order, check card, debit card, cash, or W. Union ect.

Anyway, that's what I do. I hope this helps.

All's well and good with your scenario IF your assumptions hold true. In the case of Paradigm, they keep a fairly tight control over the U.S. distribution. I don't know of any online vendors for their products, so that option is not available in this case.

And your comments about the warranty apply only if the parts needed for repair are available, and one way that manufacturers enforce the warranty is at the service center level. For example, Yamaha and their service centers will not work on any unit purchased from an unauthorized vendor, even if the customer offers to pay for repairs. If the required part only comes from the factory, it's an awful lot of hurt to try and get the defective unit repaired if the unauthorized vendor won't help the customer with the servicing. Denon will give you a free pass for the first unauthorized warranty service call, then you're on your own after that.

In the case of Paradigm, you can only order their drivers through their distribution channels since they manufacture the drivers themselves. I don't know how they would handle an unauthorized unit, but they always have the option of not selling the needed component or charging an outrageous amount (which Paradigm apparently does on parts for out-of-warranty speakers). And I would not call the warranties "worthless." Again, with Paradigm, they had design defect with the tweeter on the early production Studio v.1 series, and the those units were all replaced under warranty by Paradigm's dealers. Buying from outside of the dealer network would deny that replacement service.

The other advantage of buying from a retail store is simply a physical point of purchase. If the unit is DOA, simply bring it back and exchange it -- time saved, and time is money. And most retail stores have more generous return/upgrade policies than you would get from an unauthorized web vendor. Don't like it? Bring it back for a refund. Want to upgrade within the next year or two? Bring it back for full credit towards the next purchase.

A lot more value added factors are in play than your assumptions account for.

[kexodusc]

Negotiating prices is declining in the market place - it's bad business. Too time consuming, irrational, inconsistent, and far too many negatives. Still, some industries continue on because it's expected. (auto, furniture, etc) Smaller businesses lead the way, because they can better control the consequences, as store size increases, the risk and wasted resources does as well.
Imagine the f'n mess Wal-Mart would be at Christmas time if old ladies were haggling for slippers and eggnog.

With Paradigm, I've heard they issue msrp prices and a "suggested street sale price" to their stores. I've received 30% off their Atoms, the smallest bookshelf model they sell, I believe. I would expect 15-20% on Studios at the very least, though it's been awhile since I bought mine, maybe things have changed. Check at least 2 dealers to keep them honest.

Best Buys and the like are good in that they often low-ball comparable models of competing brands (Energy, Polk, Infinity).

Tweeter was one store that just wouldn't go to bat for me...I didn't buy there.

As for warranty value - I can fix a speaker - but it's hard if I can't get replacement parts. However, the entire 2nd hand industry is made possible by the fact that the probability of failure is quite low. Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances. Assign whatever value you want to it.

[darth2222]

Well i did some negotiating and i did okay im getting my Studio 20V3 for 682 pr thats around 12 to 15 percent off retail price

[basite]

always going to the same shop helps for me, after a while, they start to know you and they give extra discount

[RGA]

Try and get to know the purchasing agent -- I did by fluke -- I was talking to a guy on a train in the mornings when I took the train into Vancouver and it turns out he is the purchasing agent for the biggest High End dealer in Vancouver "Commercial Electronics." It is quite interesting to know just how much the dealer pays for what they sell it for - the mark-up above and beyond the needed sell for price and repair rates and how bad some companies are versus others. The more expensive the unit is generally the more you talk them down. The entry level Bryston amplifiers they sell are at such a premium price because of the built in warranty. It's a big warranty but you as the customer pay for that like a hidden VAT tax.