Paradigm Speaker Dilema

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  • 01-13-2005, 11:57 PM
    Silverbullet
    Paradigm Speaker Dilema
    Help. I'm trying to start a HT and will start with the mains and center. For the Mains, i'm trying to decide between the Monitor 7 or 11 vs. the Studio 40 or 60. I know the stuidios are more expensive, but are they worth the money. I'm currently using a Yamaha RXV1300, room size is 13'x17' that opens up into the kitchen.
  • 01-14-2005, 12:06 AM
    RGA
    Only you can determine whether or not the extra money is worth to you or not. More expensivce does not necessarily mean the price justifies the improvement. Paradigm fans will tell you it;s a VAST improvement etc - I don't think it is.

    If you can get the V2 series on a closeout that might be your best bet bang for buck wise.

    If you have a sub you may not need floorstanders.
  • 01-14-2005, 05:10 AM
    BillB
    I've listened to everything from the Performance Series through the Signature Series. If I had to rank the difference in performance vs. price increase from most to least it'd go like this:

    1. Performance ---> Monitor
    2. Monitor ---> Studio
    3. Studio ---> Signature

    I think the Monitor line offers the best value if budget is of concern but I do think the performance difference between the Monitor line and Studio line warrants the price increase, especially if you factor in negotiation.

    The Studio 40 + stands comes rather close to the cost of the Studio 60 and has the easier knock-over factor the 60 does not. That would lead me to recommend the 60 even if you have a sub.

    If you plan on using a sub with all sources, I'd take the Monitor 7 over the 11. If you like to run your mains full-range with 2-ch sources like music the 11 will likely give you a little smoother bass with more weight.

    If you do decide to go with the Studio Series I recommend the CC-470 over the CC-570 with whichever model main you go with. I find it blends better with the entire Studio lineup than the 570, though the 570 does go lower if you run it full-range.

    As RGA mentioned, only you can decide where your point of diminishing returns comes in. If a home audition is not possible (as is the case for most people unfortunately) do some extensive listening on all speakers with gear as close to your as possible.

    Good luck and have fun!

    Bill
  • 01-14-2005, 05:13 AM
    Jimmy C
    First of all...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Silverbullet
    Help. I'm trying to start a HT and will start with the mains and center. For the Mains, i'm trying to decide between the Monitor 7 or 11 vs. the Studio 40 or 60. I know the stuidios are more expensive, but are they worth the money. I'm currently using a Yamaha RXV1300, room size is 13'x17' that opens up into the kitchen.

    .... if you're going to build your rig piece by piece, I would concentrate on the mains and run the receiver in "phantom" mode... this will still create solid center fill. In other words, get the best (to your ears) speakers you can.

    Now... I have had a pair of 60s (v2) for about 6 years now. They are a "decent" speaker, but if I had to do it all over, I would probably concentrate on a better stand-mount and worry about the bass later (as funds allow). Don't get me wrong... the 60s do a lot of things right, it's just that I feel they are priced a bit too high for what you get.

    A friend of mine has the Monitor 11s, and they sound pretty good in his set-up (V.P.I. Scout>>Rotel pre>>Dynaco tubes or Rotel power>>11s). In the store, we listened to the 9s next to the 11s... no doubt about it, the 11s have tighter bass. They also sound less nasal.

    Are the 60s worth the premium over the 11s? Well, they are a little more refined and relaxed, but at 50% (thereabouts) more. I don't feel it's a "night and day" difference, but the 60s are indeed better. Only you can decide!

    Well, that's my $.02... listen to everything you can (that's the fun!) in your area, a keep us posted...
  • 01-14-2005, 08:51 AM
    N. Abstentia
    Dude, last time I looked the Monitor 11's and the Studio 60's were within $200 of each other. Personally though I felt the Studio 40's outperformed them both and they cost LESS than the Monitor 11's!
  • 01-14-2005, 10:05 AM
    kexodusc
    The 40's or 20's should have enough bass for most people, especially if incorporating with a sub.
    I have a hard time recommending the 60's over the 40's....not at that price, and to be honest, I don't hear the same presentation from the 60's...just my opinion.
    If you're really fussy, and don't have a sub, the 60's are the way to go...

    If you really want to stretch your dollars, buy used.
  • 01-14-2005, 11:53 AM
    Woochifer
    The Monitors have a more aggressively tuned sound, and they're less linear across the frequency range. The Studio v.3 series is superbly balanced and the 20s and 40s that I heard have some of the best imaging that I've heard from a dynamic driver speaker. It is definitely a notable step up from the Monitor series overall with a more refined sound, but in specific applications you might like the Monitor series better depending on your preferences. The main thing that you lose by going to the Studio series is some bass extension if you opt for the 40 over the Monitor 11s. But, you gain a lot in other areas.

    If you plan to eventually get a subwoofer, then I think the Monitor series is a less attractive option.

    Which series you wind up with totally depends on what you're looking for.
  • 01-14-2005, 12:06 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    Only you can determine whether or not the extra money is worth to you or not. More expensivce does not necessarily mean the price justifies the improvement. Paradigm fans will tell you it;s a VAST improvement etc - I don't think it is.

    Vast improvement? Which Paradigm fans are you speaking on behalf of? You don't like either the Monitor or the Studio v.3 series (and that opinion seems entirely based on the 100 v.3, which is not on the poster's list), so you're not going to believe that either series is worth the money to begin with.
  • 01-14-2005, 04:15 PM
    Jimmy C
    Yeah, I suppose you're right...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    Dude, last time I looked the Monitor 11's and the Studio 60's were within $200 of each other. Personally though I felt the Studio 40's outperformed them both and they cost LESS than the Monitor 11's!

    ...I paid about $1K for my 60s, while my friend got his 11s for $899 minus a discount, IIRC. Maybe I was thinking about the 60s (v3) NEW price, not sure!

    I would definitely do the 60s over the 11s if pricing is THAT close. The 40s do sound a bit less "boxy", but you need stands, therein lies the rub.

    I stand (err... "sit") corrected :*)
  • 01-15-2005, 11:43 PM
    Silverbullet
    Thanks for all the great info
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BillB
    I've listened to everything from the Performance Series through the Signature Series. If I had to rank the difference in performance vs. price increase from most to least it'd go like this:

    1. Performance ---> Monitor
    2. Monitor ---> Studio
    3. Studio ---> Signature

    I think the Monitor line offers the best value if budget is of concern but I do think the performance difference between the Monitor line and Studio line warrants the price increase, especially if you factor in negotiation.

    The Studio 40 + stands comes rather close to the cost of the Studio 60 and has the easier knock-over factor the 60 does not. That would lead me to recommend the 60 even if you have a sub.

    If you plan on using a sub with all sources, I'd take the Monitor 7 over the 11. If you like to run your mains full-range with 2-ch sources like music the 11 will likely give you a little smoother bass with more weight.

    If you do decide to go with the Studio Series I recommend the CC-470 over the CC-570 with whichever model main you go with. I find it blends better with the entire Studio lineup than the 570, though the 570 does go lower if you run it full-range.

    As RGA mentioned, only you can decide where your point of diminishing returns comes in. If a home audition is not possible (as is the case for most people unfortunately) do some extensive listening on all speakers with gear as close to your as possible.

    Good luck and have fun!

    Bill

    I'm not sure about the ability to demo the speakers and i will be using a sub with them, this week my goal is to try to find a dealer that has everything so i can compare side by side, but i will ask about the Demo. I hear everyone talking about discounts, what is a fair discount i should be looking at, 10% or more.
  • 01-16-2005, 10:15 AM
    BillB
    10% is pretty standard. With a little negotiation on your part 155 is very doable with 20%+ not entirely out of the question.

    Bill
  • 01-16-2005, 01:48 PM
    RGA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Vast improvement? Which Paradigm fans are you speaking on behalf of? You don't like either the Monitor or the Studio v.3 series (and that opinion seems entirely based on the 100 v.3, which is not on the poster's list), so you're not going to believe that either series is worth the money to begin with.

    I find the monitor series about average for the money - I find the Studio 100V3 a bad value at the price - and I would recommend the v2 line depending on what a dealer was selling them for - if they have any left. I would personally go to something other than Paradigm - but this poster wants to know if spending more going to the next series will be worth it or not. Plusthe limitation of recommending home theater in boxes speakers.
  • 01-16-2005, 05:46 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    I find the monitor series about average for the money - I find the Studio 100V3 a bad value at the price - and I would recommend the v2 line depending on what a dealer was selling them for - if they have any left. I would personally go to something other than Paradigm - but this poster wants to know if spending more going to the next series will be worth it or not. Plusthe limitation of recommending home theater in boxes speakers.

    But, how does your opinion of the Studio 100 v.3 relate to the choices between the Monitor 7/11 vs the Studio 20/40? If the Studio 100 v.3's a poor value, then that's your opinion for that particular model. Says absolutely nothing about the Studio 20 and 40 v.3.

    We're talking about prices that are roughly comparable starting at $600 for the Monitor 7 and $800 for the Studio 20, up to $1,000 for the Monitor 11 and $1,100 for the Studio 40, not that $2,200 that the Studio 100 commands. Is the Studio series worth the extra $100 to $500 for the possible combinations of comparisons out there? Well, IMO yes, and I have heard all of the speakers in question. Not exactly a "VAST" difference in price, but possibly a worthwhile improvement in performance.

    Besides, you never answered my query about which Paradigm fans you were speaking on behalf of, since your generalization seemed aimed at all of us. We all know you would recommend something other than Paradigm, as you take shots at the Studio and Monitor series at every possible opportunity, even if you haven't heard the models in question. Oh and is your snide reference to "home theater in boxes speakers" an attempt to equate Paradigms with HTIB speakers? If you think they're one and the same, then you're not dealing in reality.
  • 02-02-2005, 10:14 PM
    mwheelerk
    Studios ALL THE WAY
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Silverbullet
    Help. I'm trying to start a HT and will start with the mains and center. For the Mains, i'm trying to decide between the Monitor 7 or 11 vs. the Studio 40 or 60. I know the stuidios are more expensive, but are they worth the money. I'm currently using a Yamaha RXV1300, room size is 13'x17' that opens up into the kitchen.


    I have owned and listened to several series of Paradigm speakers. First I would say they are one of the best values across their entire product line. My son is still using my old 7's and enjoys them everyday. I currently own Studio 60's and I am preparing to upgrade (mine are going on 7 years old and time and technology march on). I have compared my Studio 60's to current Monitors and my older units were distinctly better. I have compared my Studio 60's to the newer version 3 60's and 100's. Both blew me away. I have enjoyed mine for years but the new units are stunning. I also compared my old 60's to the new B&W 704's (they held their own) and the Gallo Reference 3's. Although the Gallo's are universally well like and I liked them in a solo audition, I cannot say they blew the old 60's away by any means.

    Spend the extra on the Studio 60's. You won't regret it. Several years from now you will reflect back on your decision with satisfaction.
  • 02-03-2005, 02:32 PM
    Calbob
    I compared the Studio 40's to 60's and went with the 60's, I never had a sub at the time, and liked the extra bass. Also there was no difference in price once you factor in the stands for the 40's.
    Now after living with them for a while I think they are great speakers, but a pain to move. I do not have the best listening setup, and every once in awhile I like to move one of the speakers, and the 60's are a pain to move. The 40's on stands might have been easier.
    But I am sure you cannot go wrong with Paradigm if you like the sound.
  • 02-03-2005, 10:28 PM
    RGA
    deleted - why bother
  • 02-04-2005, 01:53 PM
    zapr
    Wooch......
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Woochifer
    But, how does your opinion of the Studio 100 v.3 relate to the choices between the Monitor 7/11 vs the Studio 20/40? If the Studio 100 v.3's a poor value, then that's your opinion for that particular model. Says absolutely nothing about the Studio 20 and 40 v.3.

    We're talking about prices that are roughly comparable starting at $600 for the Monitor 7 and $800 for the Studio 20, up to $1,000 for the Monitor 11 and $1,100 for the Studio 40, not that $2,200 that the Studio 100 commands. Is the Studio series worth the extra $100 to $500 for the possible combinations of comparisons out there? Well, IMO yes, and I have heard all of the speakers in question. Not exactly a "VAST" difference in price, but possibly a worthwhile improvement in performance.

    Besides, you never answered my query about which Paradigm fans you were speaking on behalf of, since your generalization seemed aimed at all of us. We all know you would recommend something other than Paradigm, as you take shots at the Studio and Monitor series at every possible opportunity, even if you haven't heard the models in question. Oh and is your snide reference to "home theater in boxes speakers" an attempt to equate Paradigms with HTIB speakers? If you think they're one and the same, then you're not dealing in reality.

    ........I think he's been kicking himself for the audio notes for a long time because he really prefered the paradigms but for some reason he missed out on them, so he slams them and the people who own them