Magnepan MMG

[vr6ofpain]

I was intrigued by these factory direct speakers several years ago, and still haven't shaken the interest. I have never heard a single planar speaker in my life, and can't seem to find a local shop that carries them. (I am aware that the MMG is actually a "quasi-ribbon" speaker.) The dipole speaker idea does seem to have some relavance, but I am more interested in hearing a speaker with such a large radiating surface.

How much validity is there in such claims as Dick Olsher's, "The impossible problem for a conventional speaker, then, is this: how to convince you it's a grand piano when the instrument's full acoustic power is being squeezed through an 8" woofer."

One other reason why I'm considering them is their money back guarantee. Plus $550 isn't out of my budget.

Has anyone personally listened to the MMG, other Magnepan products? I have read good things about Quad's electrostatic speakers. Are these similar?

[RGA]

I have heard the SMG and Quad, ML panels. They have a certain appeal. All speakers have certain trade-offs and it will largely depend on which you are willing to give up for the gain you may get. For instance if the MMG sounds similar to the more expensive SMG then you will have a very hoographic midrange in that there seems to be a great amount of space and breadth to everything which is quite interesting. Bass dynamics are truly abysmal though and they don;t do any credible justice to amplified music. Martin Logan SAW this problem with panels/planars so they put a subwoofer under their panels - prolem is they don't integrate very well so there is a hick-up to the sound - a bit discordant.

It is nonsense to suggest that "how to convince you it's a grand piano when the instrument's full acoustic power is being squeezed through an 8" woofer." One could argue that how do you create the sound of a reverberant boxed instrument like a piano without a boxed speaker. Both statements are silly. Though I grant that the SMG does a better job than most boxed speakers under $1k I've heard on acoustic instruments.

Hell for $550.00 and you can return them anyway - what the hell give it a try. Especially if Rock/Dance/Pop ain't your thing anyway

Why not find a dealer carrying the bigger models so you can at least get an idea of what you're in for.

[vr6ofpain]

Well I have a small sub that could possibly deal with the lower frequencies, a Velodyne VA-907.2. It isn't gonna produce the lowest frequencies, but it does the job of the low end with my current bookshelves(which I have highpassed at 80hz out of my Lexicon).

My music preference does vary, but it actually centers around older Jazz when I'm listening on my good system. I have a lower quality system that I play movies and rock/pop through.


Would you say that these types of speakers are more sensitive to placement and environment than non-dipole, "boxed" speakers?

[Geoffcin]

Well I have a small sub that could possibly deal with the lower frequencies, a Velodyne VA-907.2. It isn't gonna produce the lowest frequencies, but it does the job of the low end with my current bookshelves(which I have highpassed at 80hz out of my Lexicon).

My music preference does vary, but it actually centers around older Jazz when I'm listening on my good system. I have a lower quality system that I play movies and rock/pop through.


Would you say that these types of speakers are more sensitive to placement and environment than non-dipole, "boxed" speakers?

Then I would definitely recommend trying a pair of MMG's. The MMG's bass is fine until ~50hz or so, and then the response drops off. The SMG is the OLDER version of the MMG, and the MMG's are BETTER, in that they have a Quasi-ribbon tweeter that is capable of more extended response, and also the bass panels have been tweaked to go lower, and LOUDER given the proper amplification.

Planars can be phenomenal with certain music, and Jazz is one that it hits right on. Once you hear the clear UN-boxed sound of planars in your OWN house then you will be hooked. On caveat is that the bass panel MUST be broken in for the speakers to sound correct top to bottom. This is as simple as playing the speaker with a bass heavy track for a few days. You'll notice the bass will really open up once the panel is broken in.

[vr6ofpain]

Then I would definitely recommend trying a pair of MMG's. The MMG's bass is fine until ~50hz or so, and then the response drops off. The SMG is the OLDER version of the MMG, and the MMG's are BETTER, in that they have a Quasi-ribbon tweeter that is capable of more extended response, and also the bass panels have been tweaked to go lower, and LOUDER given the proper amplification.

Planars can be phenomenal with certain music, and Jazz is one that it hits right on. Once you hear the clear UN-boxed sound of planars in your OWN house then you will be hooked. On caveat is that the bass panel MUST be broken in for the speakers to sound correct top to bottom. This is as simple as playing the speaker with a bass heavy track for a few days. You'll notice the bass will really open up once the panel is broken in.

Thank you for the info. I assume my Adcom GFA-545 can handle them, right? It delivers 100watts per channel into 8 ohms, and supposedly can handle very low impedences. The manual doesn't saw what they put out at 4 ohms, but I have beem driving some 4 ohm MB Quart bookshelves no problem. Do you think a 4 ohm planar with a 86dB sensitivity would be a tough load? I really don't know much about these planar/electrostatic(non "box") speakers.

[markw]

Depending on your listening levels, the fact that a powered sub will be handling the bass sucking lows, I'd say you should at least give the MMG's a try. All this talk isn't gonna settle anything and if you don't like 'em, you can simply return 'em. What more could you ask for?

[E-Stat]

I have never heard a single planar speaker in my life, and can't seem to find a local shop that carries them.

Never? I heartily recommend doing so. While not for everyone, I have been a planar fan since I first heard a pair of Tympani I-Us thirty years ago.

Has anyone personally listened to the MMG, other Magnepan products? I have read good things about Quad's electrostatic speakers. Are these similar?

I've heard many a Magneplanar over the years, although not the MMG. What I particularly like about the larger Magneplanars and electrostats is their ability to reproduce a large acoustic space (if on the recording, naturally), laterally, vertically, and depthwise. I never find myself listening "down" at the image. Electrostats like the Quad operate in a fundamentally different way. While Magneplanars employ voice coils and magnets in their drivers, electrostats use a high voltage, yet low amperage charge on the panels to move the diaphragms. Since there is no "iron" in the moving parts, the mass is significantly lower than that of conventional speakers. The Quad, like other electrostats is also of the full range design. There are no woofer or tweeter panels per se. The full frequency range is reproduced over the entire surface. Which is why most full range 'stats are quite large. While the exceptionally low mass is great for high frequencies, they require large surface areas to reproduce the low frequencies. My Acoustats, for example, have about 50 square feet of radiating area for that reason.

Magneplanar design

Electrostatic design

rw

[vr6ofpain]

Electrostatic design

I'm learning.

Hey thanks for the good info guys.

[Geoffcin]

Thank you for the info. I assume my Adcom GFA-545 can handle them, right? It delivers 100watts per channel into 8 ohms, and supposedly can handle very low impedences. The manual doesn't saw what they put out at 4 ohms, but I have beem driving some 4 ohm MB Quart bookshelves no problem. Do you think a 4 ohm planar with a 86dB sensitivity would be a tough load? I really don't know much about these planar/electrostatic(non "box") speakers.

Your ADCOM amp is perfect for the MMG's. I've heard the larger 3.6r Manepans driven by ADCOM power and it worked really well. Magnepans, although 4ohm, are in all other respects pretty easy to drive. 200 watts @ 4 ohms is just about what I'm using, and it's more than enough to get you where you want to go.

[Lord_Magnepan]

The Magnepan MMG is a great way to start. Of course dont expect any bass wonders etc.. I heard all current modells and own a MG 3.6 My smaller 1.6s have exellent bass and slam. They are quite critical to placement, and need 2 month of break in. After having heard Kharma, Audio Physics etc...i can honestly say that the Maggies are the most honest speakers i have ever heard and i will never buy a box again in my life.

The MMG are great, but there is a huge difference between a MMG a MG12 and a even bigger jump to a 1.6 I am sure you will not regret it if you take your time with these.

Cheers

PS: Dont let those "paper specs" like 20Hz fool you !! First there are only a very very very few recordings that go that deep. And most(have yet to hear one that does) box speakers cannot play remotely close to 20Hz flat 4 or more meters in the room.

[Feanor]

[QUOTE=vr6ofpain]... Has anyone personally listened to the MMG, other Magnepan products? ...QUOTE]

It depends on your listening tastes. If you are mainly into accoustic music especially small-scale classical, (chamber music), and jazz, the MMGs can provide fabulous results: wide & deep soundstage; excellent detail; greate tonal accuracy. But if you're into rock you might be disappointed.

As RGA points implies, MMG dynamics leave something to be desired in the bass region. Bass extension, (how deep it can go), is at least as good as the typical "bookshelf" speaker, but at higher volume it can't play the bass as loud as the rest of the music in the case of rock.

The way to get around MMG's lacking bass dynamics is to use a subwoofer with the cross-over at 80Hz . This will pretty much fully compensate for the dynamics, (though you loose the greater precision that the MMG can provide). Personally I'm a chamber music fan so I set my sub cross-over at about 55Hz. Larger Magneplanars have less of a problem with bass dynamics provided you use a sufficient powerful amp.

The other issue with Magneplanars is placement. It's not difficult, but you keep then at least 4 feet from the wall behind and a couple of feet from side walls. Also they have a small "sweet spot", i.e. the area where you need to sit for absolutely best sound is rather narrow.

[Geoffcin]

[QUOTE=Feanor]

... Has anyone personally listened to the MMG, other Magnepan products? ...QUOTE]

It depends on your listening tastes. If you are mainly into accoustic music especially small-scale classical, (chamber music), and jazz, the MMGs can provide fabulous results: wide & deep soundstage; excellent detail; greate tonal accuracy. But if you're into rock you might be disappointed.

The other issue with Magneplanars is placement. It's not difficult, but you keep then at least 4 feet from the wall behind and a couple of feet from side walls. Also they have a small "sweet spot", i.e. the area where you need to sit for absolutely best sound is rather narrow.

But then again the accuracy needed to correctly reproduce classical, jazz, and acoustic music is wasted on "wall of sound" type music anyway. If your into blaring rock @ 110db, you don't need to bother with Maggies.

Unfortunately you've pointed out my second issue with Maggies. The "sweet spot" is small for such a large speaker, and it does require you to work to get it perfect, although this is an issue with many quality speakers, with the notable exception of Ohm Walshes.

[Lord_Magnepan]

The placement is a pain in the butt. I moved my 1.6 around for over half a year to get right. They need good electronics (denon, marantz, onkyo <-doesnt work here). A very very critical thing is the room acoustics. Flapping echos etc.... If you set them up right you will be in heaven. Also maybe save up some more money and buy a MG 12 or a 1.6 The MMG doesnt really compare to the 12 as the MMG is a "-->sorry to say this" ....a waste products of the MG 12.

Cheers

[Feanor]

First, Magneplanars needs good amplification. I wouldn't to so far as to say that a receiver won't work but it had better be specified for 4 ohms. Beyond that, all improvements are beneficial. With my MMGs I noticed a huge improvement going from the NAD C270, (Stereophile Class 'C'), to a Bel Canto eVo2i integrated, (the eVo2 power amp is Class 'A'). With the latter the general detail and spatial detail -- imaging, width, depth, and height -- became amazing. The Bel Canto integrated is more than 5 time the price of the MMGs but still not over-kill for the latter's capability. Even my CDs sounded different and better! What previously sounded like digital "hash" was revealed, in many cases, to be instrument harmonics and spatial information.

Secondly, a bigger Magneplanar would help the "loudness" problem with, say, classical orchestral crescendos. A subwoofer would become redundant except for the deepest bass. My next major upgrade will be to the 1.6's.

[Lord_Magnepan]

Well not only does the "volume" go up with the higher modells. The higher the mdell the more resolution, transparency, depth, precision, staging etc.. you get. They dont need "Watts" they need stable power and a AMP that doesnt know the word clipping

[Geoffcin]

Well not only does the "volume" go up with the higher modells. The higher the mdell the more resolution, transparency, depth, precision, staging etc.. you get. They dont need "Watts" they need stable power and a AMP that doesnt know the word clipping

With the MMG/12/1.6 line the technology is basically the same, hence the similar resulting timber. Obviously the stage gets larger as the speakers do, and the bass panel can produce more, and lower bass, but I don't think they become any more transparent, or have greater resolution until you get to the 3.6r which uses the true ribbon tweeter.

[Lord_Magnepan]

Well i own a 0.5 a 1.6 and a 3.6 :-) And to my ears all that changes !!