Need some advice on solid bookshelf speakers

LeRoy, right now I'm just using my Sonos system....

http://www.sonos.com/whattobuy/zonep...&LangType=1033

Nothing too fancy so that's why I can't wait for the power cable to arrive. That's the real test!

More to come.

How's everything now? Got the power cord yet?

Sorry it took so long to get back to you folks. I DID get the power cord and then I went out of town for a bit. Here is my bit on the Paradigm Cinema Micros and the MS 902i:...then Monitor 7s

The Mordaunt Short 902i have much more bass and low end but the high end does not beat out the Micros in any way at all. It may be my ear (and I have listened to plenty of live music and loud A$$ home stereo in my day to damage them) but here is what I hear....snare drum (weird...I know) , lead guitar (solos, high picking), etc, seem to be muffled and not nearly as prominant on the MSs as opposed to the Micros. The Micros "sing" much more in this area than that of the 902is. The 902i seem to provide a "stage" much more than that of the Micros. It just seems to fill the middle space much better so you have that feeling of the music being right in front of you more as opposed to stage left, stage right. Not sure if that makes sense to you all or not but that's what i'm going with on my description. :) sound stage maybe?? The 902s are much better for lower end music though, such as rock and roll or hip hop, much better and some really tight impressive bass for such a small cabinet. When listening to bluegrass or guitar music though the micros are better on the high end but definitely lack on the lower end and don't have that tight solid bass to them, no matter where you put them! They are cheap, made for cinema, and small. I didn't really expect much out of them but they will work well in my office when I beef that up. I'm choosing the MS 902i as beating out the Micros overall as the Micros fall way short in areas that the 902i only come in a close second to. Bottom line, both speakers are a grrrreat value for the cost, $139 Micros and $250 for MS 902i. With that being said, I'll bring up my room size again, 25' by 25' at largest but less square footage due to the dormers being on the second floor. 45 degree wall/celings etc...you get the point. Overall a larger room with some tough angles and poor acoustics. Bookshelf speakers at this level are not cutting it. Here is what I ended up doing....

Purchased a set of Paradigm Monitor 7 v4 off clist.org ($225) and put those out there this afternoon. Wow does that sound 10 times better than either of those bookshelf speakers! I had a hunch it may. :) It's doing a d@mn fine job of filling the room with quality sound even at high levels, which the others could not.

So what do I do with the other sets you may ask? Well I have moved the MS 902Is back to the Sonos in my upstairs living room (not my main listening area) and plan to use those until I get my new sub I ordered the other day. Should be here in a few more days, Paradimg PDR-10 V3....last Canuck made version before The China Man took over production. Once I receive the new sub I can hook them up to the bookshelf speaks and see how that goes.

LeRoy, sorry I can't do the side by side comparison on the Titans vs your mini monsters, aka 902i, but I'm done buying cheap speakers for a bit. I'm impressed with them though and I truly would recommend them to anyone looking for a great value in a bookshelf speaker using them in a smaller room but not a large room, as expected I'm sure. The floor standers are the way to go for a room that size but I'll let ya know where I end up after the sub gets here. I assume I can wire the MS 902is into the high posts and see what happens there. Not an option on the Micros but I'll keep ya posted on my testing once I receive it!

Take care and thanks for all the input folks!

T.BONE

Oh yeah, for anyone wondering about the Rotel RA-02. It's sweet for 40W per channel!!!! I would say it's just as loud and much more crisp at high volumes than my old Harmon Kardon AVRXXX that was running 100or125W/channel!

The Paradigm Monitor line are such efficient speakers. Especially with the Rotel (they match up well if you ask me) as it will get too loud in that 25x25 room with the RA-02 pushing the Monitor 7s, trust me.

Highly recommend the RA-02 amp for a cheap amp in a second listening area if you are on a budget and have effiecient speakers.....aka....no B+Ws or Paradigm Studio, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbonebrown

Sorry it took so long to get back to you folks. I DID get the power cord and then I went out of town for a bit. Here is my bit on the Paradigm Cinema Micros and the MS 902i:...then Monitor 7s

The Mordaunt Short 902i have much more bass and low end but the high end does not beat out the Micros in any way at all. It may be my ear (and I have listened to plenty of live music and loud A$$ home stereo in my day to damage them) but here is what I hear....snare drum (weird...I know) , lead guitar (solos, high picking), etc, seem to be muffled and not nearly as prominant on the MSs as opposed to the Micros. The Micros "sing" much more in this area than that of the 902is. The 902i seem to provide a "stage" much more than that of the Micros. It just seems to fill the middle space much better so you have that feeling of the music being right in front of you more as opposed to stage left, stage right. Not sure if that makes sense to you all or not but that's what i'm going with on my description. :) sound stage maybe?? The 902s are much better for lower end music though, such as rock and roll or hip hop, much better and some really tight impressive bass for such a small cabinet. When listening to bluegrass or guitar music though the micros are better on the high end but definitely lack on the lower end and don't have that tight solid bass to them, no matter where you put them! They are cheap, made for cinema, and small. I didn't really expect much out of them but they will work well in my office when I beef that up. I'm choosing the MS 902i as beating out the Micros overall as the Micros fall way short in areas that the 902i only come in a close second to. Bottom line, both speakers are a grrrreat value for the cost, $139 Micros and $250 for MS 902i. With that being said, I'll bring up my room size again, 25' by 25' at largest but less square footage due to the dormers being on the second floor. 45 degree wall/celings etc...you get the point. Overall a larger room with some tough angles and poor acoustics. Bookshelf speakers at this level are not cutting it. Here is what I ended up doing....

Purchased a set of Paradigm Monitor 7 v4 off clist.org ($225) and put those out there this afternoon. Wow does that sound 10 times better than either of those bookshelf speakers! I had a hunch it may. :) It's doing a d@mn fine job of filling the room with quality sound even at high levels, which the others could not.

So what do I do with the other sets you may ask? Well I have moved the MS 902Is back to the Sonos in my upstairs living room (not my main listening area) and plan to use those until I get my new sub I ordered the other day. Should be here in a few more days, Paradimg PDR-10 V3....last Canuck made version before The China Man took over production. Once I receive the new sub I can hook them up to the bookshelf speaks and see how that goes.

LeRoy, sorry I can't do the side by side comparison on the Titans vs your mini monsters, aka 902i, but I'm done buying cheap speakers for a bit. I'm impressed with them though and I truly would recommend them to anyone looking for a great value in a bookshelf speaker using them in a smaller room but not a large room, as expected I'm sure. The floor standers are the way to go for a room that size but I'll let ya know where I end up after the sub gets here. I assume I can wire the MS 902is into the high posts and see what happens there. Not an option on the Micros but I'll keep ya posted on my testing once I receive it!

Take care and thanks for all the input folks!

T.BONE

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I was wondering where you went and glad you came back to provide your findings. I am glad you found what you needed in the floor standers and wish the M.S. had fit your needs better.

Yes, the M.S. can be bi-wired and hopefully you will be better able to extract the HF that you are seeking. That's cool that you still find some value and use of the 902's even though they are not going to be primary speakers.

So, what is the config.. Rotel, Paradigm Monitors 7 v4, digital source?, speaker wire?, and interconnects?

Rotel RA-02
Monitor 7s connected with Python 10 gauge
iPod connected with iPod supplied headphone to RCA cable

I know it's pretty low budget but it's sounding pretty good. If you think the connects would make a large difference please let me know what you use or what you would recommend. Same on the speaker wire but I don't need to spend $100 on wire as I think the currrent Pythons are doing quite well. Thoughts?

I used to only use store purchased CDs kicking through my main stereo but with the digital world coming on so strong I had to go with the iPod and Apple Lossless compression. I had a coupld hundred CDs and a few others did too when we started out digital music library. We're up to 700+ full albums now and love the quick access to all the music...especially shuffle or genre shuffle! I have a pretty decent setup with nice Rotel and Paradigms in my main listening area and the other buddy has a nice Magnepan set connected to a high end separates system. We both agreed that although we can hear a difference we were impressed at the quality of sound coming out of the Apple Lossless files so we converted all our music many years ago.

I briefly looked into a DAC when I was at The Needle Doctor (remember roping me into getting those 902Is? :) ) and they said it would definitely improve your sound. Well I read later from an article or two that the iPod acutally uses one of the best manu. for their DAC. I'm wondering if if would acutally make much of a difference? Do you have any experience in this digital setup at all?....ANYONE? If so, please comment.

I'm now looking into somehow connecting those Micros to my PC...any experience with those cheap Pyle mini amps at all or would I be best looking for an older receiver amp to get what I need? I may start a new thread on this topic as I've looked on audioreview.com and didnt' see much under my search.

blah...blah....blah...LATER! :10:

If those Micros sound better with that new sub I may end up with those M.S. connected to my PC via some amp!

Quote:

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...last Canuck made version before The China Man took over production

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Did Paradigm start production in China?

frenchmon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Did Paradigm start production in China?

frenchmon

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Not the last I heard -- though I might have missed the email.

Certainly PSB has shifted all production to China, parts and assembly. A few months ago Paul Barton, in a TAS or 'Phile interview, (don't rememeber which), was ecstatic about doing business over there. He felt he could design, build, and deliver a better product with off-shore production; (up yours, NA workers). Judging by the recent, highly favorable reviews for PSB speakers in various price ranges, he has a point.

Still kudos to Paradigm for holding for North American production, (assuming that is still indeed true). But for practical purposes we can kiss off production of all mass market and mid-range goods in North American and Europe. And entrepreneurs like Barton needn't be so smug: Chinese entrepreneurs abound and will are already promoting their own designs and brands -- at least some of which are highly compeditive in performance and quality with western-designed goods.

Chinese brands will have established a solid, popular reputation somewhat before NA and European workers' wages will have fallen enough to make production in these places feasible once again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbonebrown

Rotel RA-02
Monitor 7s connected with Python 10 gauge
iPod connected with iPod supplied headphone to RCA cable

I know it's pretty low budget but it's sounding pretty good. If you think the connects would make a large difference please let me know what you use or what you would recommend. Same on the speaker wire but I don't need to spend $100 on wire as I think the currrent Pythons are doing quite well. Thoughts?

I used to only use store purchased CDs kicking through my main stereo but with the digital world coming on so strong I had to go with the iPod and Apple Lossless compression. I had a coupld hundred CDs and a few others did too when we started out digital music library. We're up to 700+ full albums now and love the quick access to all the music...especially shuffle or genre shuffle! I have a pretty decent setup with nice Rotel and Paradigms in my main listening area and the other buddy has a nice Magnepan set connected to a high end separates system. We both agreed that although we can hear a difference we were impressed at the quality of sound coming out of the Apple Lossless files so we converted all our music many years ago.

I briefly looked into a DAC when I was at The Needle Doctor (remember roping me into getting those 902Is? :) ) and they said it would definitely improve your sound. Well I read later from an article or two that the iPod acutally uses one of the best manu. for their DAC. I'm wondering if if would acutally make much of a difference? Do you have any experience in this digital setup at all?....ANYONE? If so, please comment.

I'm now looking into somehow connecting those Micros to my PC...any experience with those cheap Pyle mini amps at all or would I be best looking for an older receiver amp to get what I need? I may start a new thread on this topic as I've looked on audioreview.com and didnt' see much under my search.

blah...blah....blah...LATER! :10:

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I am not familiar with Ipod's, Ipod connectivity, or Ipod sound quality. Somewhat recently I had purchased a Musical Fidelity V-DAC $299.00 and thought it might improve the sound of my M.F. X-RAY CDP and as it turned out the DAC in the X-RAY produced SQ that was more favorable than the V-DAC so that experiment did not go as hoped for. However, the V-DAC was a definite improvement over the Toshiba Laptop DAC connected to the Evolved Sonic amp/transmitter. Real recently I had an opportunity to get really acquainted with the Naim DAC and that is state of the art, $4K. No way I can afford that kind of audio SQ.

I will have to ask my audio buddy who is also a cable builder how Ipod connectivity and SQ can be improved or tweaked. I'll have to get back to you on that. For speaker wire I currently use Chord Carnival Silver Screen, 8ft, and I have two sets, one bi-wire, and one set only that is 2-conductor. I will be replacing the CCSC 2-conductor speaker wire with Blue Marble Audio speaker wire (and the only reason I am doing that is because the MBA wire was a gift). The BMA wire is excellent, worth the $$, but pricey.

As far as system building goes....everything piece makes a difference...IC's, speaker wire, power cord, amp, speakers, source....all of comes together to produce the final sound.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feanor

Not the last I heard -- though I might have missed the email.

Certainly PSB has shifted all production to China, parts and assembly. A few months ago Paul Barton, in a TAS or 'Phile interview, (don't rememeber which), was ecstatic about doing business over there. He felt he could design, build, and deliver a better product with off-shore production; (up yours, NA workers). Judging by the recent, highly favorable reviews for PSB speakers in various price ranges, he has a point.

Still kudos to Paradigm for holding for North American production, (assuming that is still indeed true). But for practical purposes we can kiss off production of all mass market and mid-range goods in North American and Europe. And entrepreneurs like Barton needn't be so smug: Chinese entrepreneurs abound and will are already promoting their own designs and brands -- at least some of which are highly compeditive in performance and quality with western-designed goods.

Chinese brands will have established a solid, popular reputation somewhat before NA and European workers' wages will have fallen enough to make production in these places feasible once again.

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Its just to bad eveythings being built overseas when we need work here in the states.

frenchmon

I spoke with my audio dealer buddy who has a couple of Ipods of his own. My buddy said unless you get an Ipod dock like Wadia or Naim that allows you to bypass the DAC of the Ipod then your Ipod DAC will be the only DAC you will be able to use. As I understand it, Bel Canto is also working to get a license for their own Ipod dock too.