Need some advice

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  • 01-16-2010, 11:35 AM
    cannon_dt
    Need some advice
    Hello all !!
    I currently own the foll set up:
    Marantz CD 7300
    Marantz PM 7200 amp
    Dyn 122s

    Somehow I am not happy and I am positive it is because of the amp. I think the speakers are far too honest for the bright marantz IMHO.

    Anyways I wanted to knock on the doors of you experts to check out the best match for the dyns - what in your opinion is a nice AMP for the 122s. I loved the NAD c372 with the 122s but unfortunately that amp is oop. My budget is around 700-800$. Please let me know your suggestions.

    Thanks,
    Ananth
  • 01-16-2010, 11:50 AM
    blackraven
    I've never heard of a Marantz amp being called bright. Isnt that amp supposed to be Class A up to 25wpc? You could look into separates. Look at this Vincent hybrid preamp http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VISA31

    Then I would look for a used amp, like a B&K reverence 125.2
  • 01-16-2010, 01:08 PM
    Mr Peabody
    Although I suspect you are right have you tried any other CDP's to make sure you are replacing the right piece? The Dyn's do like some current. What interconnects do you use between the CD and amp?

    I drove a set of Dynaudio Audience 60's hard with Adcom separates. A gtp-450 preamp and gfa-5400 125x2 and later a gfa-5500 200x2. I chose the Adcom for it's power and full sound for a system in a workout room. You can find Adcom crazy cheap on Audiogon.com. I'd recommend the 5500 or 555, the 5500 was a better sounding amp with smoother highs. My 60's just sat and smiled at the power while kicking out a great performance. Great bass.

    If the budget can stretch look at this baby:
    http://www.spearitsound.com/shanling/shanling_a3000.asp

    They also have some B&K 250 watt monoblocks for $1150 a pair but then you still need a preamp.

    Here's an awesome solution Krell kav-300i not to be confused with S300i. I drove my Contour with this 300i before going to a 500i. http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ntegrated-Ampl I just wanted to show you this amp and maybe you can see if others are around. This guy has no feedback and the 300i does not have a headphone jack so his comments about headphones threw up a big red flag.

    Any way to do it right you will need some power. It could be the Marantz isn't pushing them to their potential which is causing the perception of brightness. It's going to take more than a small NAD or Cambridge. Don't give up on those speakers though they are great.
  • 01-16-2010, 02:47 PM
    frenchmon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cannon_dt
    Hello all !!
    I currently own the foll set up:
    Marantz CD 7300
    Marantz PM 7200 amp
    Dyn 122s

    Somehow I am not happy and I am positive it is because of the amp. I think the speakers are far too honest for the bright marantz IMHO.

    Anyways I wanted to knock on the doors of you experts to check out the best match for the dyns - what in your opinion is a nice AMP for the 122s. I loved the NAD c372 with the 122s but unfortunately that amp is oop. My budget is around 700-800$. Please let me know your suggestions.

    Thanks,
    Ananth

    I dont know your amp to be bright at all. Just to make sure, I just checked a few reviews concerning your amp and no one discribed it as bright but warm. So it could be someting else in your audio chain. What cables are you using?

    frenchmon
  • 01-16-2010, 04:24 PM
    Mr Peabody
    Don't be offended by this, one can't tell another's level of experience until they get to know them and sometimes basic things get overlooked. Are the 122's in phase with your amp? red (+) on amp to red (+) on speaker and same with black.

    It warrants some experimentation before just dismissing the 7200, however, a set of speakers with a retail around $2k, two mid/woofer driver per cabinet, only 86 dB sensitive and 6 ohms, is a pretty big job for a $500.00 amp without a high current output stage. The Dyn drivers also sport one hefty voice coil. It could be the 7200 is just out of it's class.
  • 01-16-2010, 04:31 PM
    Mr Peabody
    I haven't read reviews that report Emotiva as "warm" but if it's a power issue they have some decent gear in your price range, you can buy a preamp and power amp in your budget and return within 30 days if not happy. www.emotiva.com
  • 01-16-2010, 09:37 PM
    cannon_dt
    Some clarifications
    @blackraven
    My bad - I was using warm and bright interchangeably - what I want is the straight sound of the dyns when I paired with the nad c372 - the marantz is too coloured. I hope that sums it up correctly.

    @MrPreabody
    I thought the CD 7300 is the part of my setup that I dont need to change. I use CHORD cables between CD and amp.
    Also, I dont yet want to consider a pre/power combo or a bridged mode combination. I know they would be ideal for my DYns but if I invest in the now it would be a compromised solution (in terms of cost I mean!)
    One more imp thing - I am in India and I cannot get my hands on your recommendations easily - what I mean is that I would like to demo the Krell or anything else but I dont think that is even possible being in India right?
    Emotiva - India - same problem right?

    Lastly - phase matches, no offence taken. In fact, I went up and checked them out before I confirmed to you - so I have no misconception of know-it-all !!!

    As you said I just think the PM 7200 is operating out-of-class and I also know that the 122s are good. So I think I am doing the right thing searching for a replacement for my amp

    @frenchmon
    Sorry, as clarified above warmth is more likely my complaint. I use CHORD between CD and amp. As for amp to speaker - nothing noteworthy, something I got with the speakers.
  • 01-16-2010, 10:30 PM
    Mr Peabody
    Cannon, what brands do you have access to? It might help to narrow suggestions. What wall outlet voltage does India have? Krell would be what you are looking for. If just not in the budget look into what Adcom may be around. Adcom isn't Krell but it doesn't cost as much and still a strong performer for the money.

    Not sure on pricing in your area but you might check Arcam or Naim. Either would have smaller watt amps capable still of driving the Dyns. Primare would be another good one.
  • 01-17-2010, 02:44 AM
    RoadRunner6
    Within your $800 budget are:


    http://emotiva.com/usp1.shtm $399

    http://emotiva.com/upa2.shtm $299

    total: $698


    Slightly over your budget are:

    Same USP-1 pre-amp $399

    Two of the new UPA-1 mono-block amps $598 ($299 each)

    total: $997


    Emotiva is a relatively new US company that designs their own components that are then manufactured in China and sold direct to the end user (no wholesalers or dealers). They are extremely high quality and high performing products at amazingly low prices.

    Their products are not always in stock and the prices make it worth the wait when necessary. The new UPA-1 mono-block amp should be a huge seller that will be specified at 200 watts into 8 ohms and 300 watts into 4 ohms ($299!). They should be for sale within the month.

    They are very happy to talk to potential customers over the phone. Sometimes you will be actually talking to the president or the head design engineer. You can chat on their forum. Many Dynaudio owners use Emotiva separates.

    RR6 :biggrin5:
  • 01-17-2010, 03:19 AM
    cannon_dt
    @Mr Peabody
    Some of the brands that I have around are
    meridian, nad, primare, arcam
    I know primare is great but I am sure it is going to be way out of budget.
    I loved NAD C372 but it is not there any more - its replacement c375 is too expensive - $1700. Way out of budget

    Do let me know what brands are the best and I will hunt around

    @RoadRunner6
    Emotiva sounds good but how can I demo it?
    Pre amp and post amp should be ideal to drive the amps but how can I buy the emotiva without being able to audition with the dyns?
  • 01-17-2010, 03:50 AM
    RoadRunner6
    cannon_dt,

    Emotiva has a 30 day no questions asked return policy. You do have to pay the return freight, but that is a rather small depending on where you live. Emotiva ships from their headquarters in Franklin, Tennessee.

    A good idea would be to post a quick question at their forum (The Emotiva Lounge) under Emotiva Products/Amplifiers or Pro-Pre's. Be sure you list your current equipment, etc. in detail. You will most likely get lots of advice even perhaps from some with Dynaudio speakers. Be prepared for lots of complimentary feedback on the USP-1 (I should say raves, I don't own it but I do own the XPA-5 amp, ERC-1 and speakers). The amp choices for you depending on your budget would be the UPA-1 mono-blocks, the UPA-2 or the XPA-2. Since it is a dedicated forum there are lots of Emo fans but many knowledgeable and very helpful folks there.

    You also could consider ordering the amp first and then the preamp later. You will be amazed at the build quality and probably the sound quality.

    RR6: biggrin5:
  • 01-17-2010, 07:32 AM
    cannon_dt
    Here you go
    @RoadRunner
    I will go ahead and post there but I am still worried about the freight - shipping 10 odd kgs from US to India - I am suspecting that would be hugggggggggge
  • 01-17-2010, 07:39 AM
    cannon_dt
    @RoadRunner
    Where is UPA-1 - I dont see it in the products section?
    Also when you mean buy the amp - which one do you refer to? I see only pre-power at Emo?
  • 01-17-2010, 12:00 PM
    RoadRunner6
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cannon_dt
    @RoadRunner
    Where is UPA-1 - I dont see it in the products section?
    Also when you mean buy the amp - which one do you refer to? I see only pre-power at Emo?

    Note that I wrote about the new UPA-1 mono-block: "They should be for sale within the month." It is brand new and not in stock quite yet. It has been discussed in the forum and should be a huge seller. The power and price is a great combination. It will not be shown on the product page until available for sale. You will have to wait for this amp, maybe a month or so. As far as being able to demo any amp with your Dyns, your own room is the only accurate place to demo with your components. A demo in a dealers showroom will not give you an accurate example of how it will sound in your room.

    Emotiva sells internationally and has a special International order section.

    http://emotiva.com/international_orders.shtm

    In your post at the Emotiva forum I would mention that you are in India. All the amps in their current product lineup are here. http://emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm (see left column) Those that are in stock are on the online store page. As I mentioned, sometimes you have to wait for a shipment and the item to be in stock. That might sound like a negative until you consider the price. I bought the XPA-5 for $799 which compares very closely to a well known amp that sells for $2749.

    The preamp is the USP-1:

    http://emotiva.com/usp1.shtm

    Your choice of amps are the UPA-2, XPA-2 and UPA-1 (there is no product page yet for the UPA-1).

    http://emotiva.com/upa2.shtm

    http://emotiva.com/xpa2.shtm

    RR6 :biggrin5:

    (I presume that you understand that the Marantz 7200 is an integrated amp. An integrated amp consists of an amp (power amp) and a preamp. In the Emotiva line there are only separate amps and preamps which are almost always superior to integrated amps.)
  • 01-17-2010, 12:05 PM
    cannon_dt
    Thanks RoadRunner
    I already registered at their forums but I am pending activation. I also contacted them via their online form.

    I would like to test at my premises too but then if I have to bear the freight to and fro in case I dont like it - that in itself can buy me a decent amp I think :(
  • 01-17-2010, 12:22 PM
    Mr Peabody
    I think on a budget the Emotiva combo will be your best bet, don't count it out for freight until you get a quote from Emo. If I remember correctly, if you decide to return the gear you will get a full refund of your initial purchase which will include shipping charge, so all you pay is the shipping back. I hope shipping isn't bad, Emo will give you the most power for your money.

    The Arcam will drive the Dyn's and may be your best bet for your budget if the Emo doesn't work out. Unless there is some way to buy used gear there. I talked to some one else in India before who had JoLida. They have some budget priced gear but you may find it warm as well, so may not fit what you want.
  • 01-17-2010, 12:30 PM
    blackraven
    I would look at Jolida, Vincent Audio and Harman Kardon integrated amps-

    http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-GB/Pr...ctCompare.aspx

    HK is trying to remake its name and is coming out with some nice equipment.
  • 01-17-2010, 02:55 PM
    Mr Peabody
    HK would have to improve a good deal to be an improvement over the Marantz and to drive Dyn's. Back in the day when they were still doing a true high current amp it wouldn't have been a problem. It would be nice if the parent corp brought the line back up, I'd like to see it. Before they wandered off into HT their stereo receivers were excellent. Not a single problem and the power rating was so conservative they were a joke. People must have hung on to them as well, I don't see them on the used websites.
  • 01-17-2010, 03:48 PM
    kexodusc
    I agree with Mr. P...the HK won't be an upgrade in sound quality over the Marantz. I would endorse any of the Adcom, Arcam or Emotiva options he's suggested. I've heard Adcom and Arcam with rather current hungry Dynaudio's in the past and they sounded pretty good.

    I've also heard NAD do a fair job with them - I'm not a big fan of that sound combination personally - NAD is a decent product just not to my preference, especially with Dynaudio, but the guy I know who paired the two really liked them....might be another option for you to consider.
  • 01-17-2010, 03:56 PM
    Mr Peabody
    I feel when using Dyn's you have to like the sound of the electronics because that is what the Dyn's will let you hear.
  • 01-17-2010, 04:32 PM
    RoadRunner6
    Just to let you know you are not alone. This is a list of international quotes from a week in November from the president's wife Cathy. Emotiva is selling lots of products world wide. BTW, Mr. P is correct. If you don't like it you pay return freight only.


    ".....Today's most unusual countries, Kuwait and Guadaloupe, Netherlands Antilles ( I had to look this one up on the map). I hope both countries join the Emotiva family.

    We welcome new countries of Greece and Japan, we shipped to both countries for the first time this week
    .
    I have also received phone calls this week from Seoul, Korea, Germany, several customers in Australia and Morten called from here in the States . During his visit, he picked up a usp-1 to take home with him, nice souvenier

    I don't want to leave anyone out this week so here are most of the countries we quoted:

    India
    Pakistan
    Israel
    Greece several
    italy
    France several
    Spain
    Denmark several
    Sweden
    Nethlands
    Germany lots of new ones!
    Slovakia
    Portugal
    Malaysia is hot right now
    South Korea several
    Australia tons
    Canada
    Brazil
    Uraguay NEW
    Hong Kong
    Singapore is hot too!
    Dubai
    Mexico
    Ireland
    Uk
    Switzerland
    and of course we always receive the most from Norway!

    Cathy....."
  • 01-17-2010, 06:43 PM
    blackraven
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    HK would have to improve a good deal to be an improvement over the Marantz and to drive Dyn's. .


    Where did you get your info- The HK 990 has plenty of power and high current too. it's able to double its power from 8 ohms to 4ohms (150wpc-300wpc) and 100peak amps. Something I doubt the Marantz can do. It takes an awfully good amp to double its power. I would not hesitate to add this integrated amp into my system. While I have not heard this amp or even seen it in the U.S., its specs on paper blow the Marantz away and it should for over double the cost.

    http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-GB/Pr...D=HK%20990/230

    And the smaller HK 980 rated at 80wpc at 8ohms peaks at 80amps, that's not chopped liver!

    http://www.e-hifi.com.au/news/Harman...eeandHear.aspx

    Like I said before, HK is trying to regain its reputation and their new equipment looks pretty good at least on paper.

    http://www.testfreaks.com/stereo-amp...kardon-hk-990/
  • 01-17-2010, 08:30 PM
    cannon_dt
    @Mr Peabody
    I am on the emotiva forum and have also filled their form - if they are serious then I guess I should get a call in the next couple of days, will keep this post updated with that.

    @RoadRunner6
    Thanks!

    @blackraven
    Is a pre-power combo not better than a integ amp? Would you still suggest the HK over Emotiva?
    Honestly - I have never heard of Emotiva before I started this post. Reading them up on the internet did show they do have quite a following
  • 01-17-2010, 08:46 PM
    blackraven
    Separates are the way to go but if your considering Emotiva, I would give the HK 990 a look. It comes with a phono preamp and it looks great on paper and probably has the warmer HK sound. Emotiva gives a lot of bang for the buck but it appears that the HK integrated amps do as well. I guess it boils down to what you can get an Emotiva amp shipped to you for. You will then need a preamp. I would take a look at Vincent Audio too and see if it cheaper by you since its coming out of China.
  • 01-17-2010, 08:52 PM
    RoadRunner6
    The HK 990 should be good for about $3000 US.

    For those bucks in the US one can get the Emo UMC-1 pre-pro and one XPA-2 power amp that has 250 watts into 8 ohms and 500 watts into 4 ohms per channel and still have $1500 left over.


    http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/a.../emotiva-xpa-2

    http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/a...ereo-amplifier

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/pream...r.html?start=1