Musical Sub

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  • 03-03-2004, 05:19 PM
    92135011
    Musical Sub
    Most people seem to want subs for home theatre.
    So what's good for MUSIC? for maybe 500USD and less complementing B&W 601 s3
    I wanted to get a REL...but the price...well...you guys know...

    Thanks a bunch
  • 03-03-2004, 10:01 PM
    jamie_the_dude
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 92135011
    Most people seem to want subs for home theatre.
    So what's good for MUSIC? for maybe 500USD and less complementing B&W 601 s3
    I wanted to get a REL...but the price...well...you guys know...

    Thanks a bunch

    Alot of subs are probably more than $500. I have an old model Klipsch with a passive radiator. It works pretty good for the money. I saw some on ebay for only $100-$225 used of course. They were $550 or more dependant on size. I believe the model would be 8swkII, 10swkII, 12swkII

    The newer downward firing I was not a fan of. The Rel and new Martin Logan are the best I ever heard, but yeah.......... alot of money.
  • 03-03-2004, 10:01 PM
    Sealed
    sub
    For $500 the REL is no big deal...I owned one.

    Get yourself a 12" Dayton titanic MKIII from partsexpress.com or an adire Rava. Either one will slaughter any REL under $2k.

    I know that because I replaced my REL with a Dayton titanic.
  • 03-03-2004, 10:50 PM
    92135011
    Hey you guys know the difference between down firing and forward firing?
    What about closed cabinet and ported?
  • 03-03-2004, 11:16 PM
    Sealed
    All that
    Downfiring:
    Not recommended without cement floors. IMO, not great on most wood floors.

    Front firing: my preference... period

    Ported: high output, but IMO, better suited for HT, than music. It's a fact that ports do not control bass well below the resonant frequency of the port. If the port is tuned to 30hz, below that is "iffy" Most budget ported subs do not have much energy at 20hz anyway, and not very clean there either.

    Sealed: needs more power for high output, but IMO, these are generally superior for music all things being equal. They also do not load rooms as badly. Newest sealed designes are capable of 100db+ at 20hz.

    I suppose the points are moot if we are talking best of the best, but in this case, we are talking <$1000.
  • 03-04-2004, 10:46 AM
    Worf101
    I don't know Sealed...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sealed
    Downfiring:
    Not recommended without cement floors. IMO, not great on most wood floors.

    Front firing: my preference... period

    Ported: high output, but IMO, better suited for HT, than music. It's a fact that ports do not control bass well below the resonant frequency of the port. If the port is tuned to 30hz, below that is "iffy" Most budget ported subs do not have much energy at 20hz anyway, and not very clean there either.

    Sealed: needs more power for high output, but IMO, these are generally superior for music all things being equal. They also do not load rooms as badly. Newest sealed designes are capable of 100db+ at 20hz.

    I suppose the points are moot if we are talking best of the best, but in this case, we are talking <$1000.

    I've an older wooden frame house from the 1930's. I've a Hsu VTF-3 which is front firing AND the VTF-2 upstairs which is down firing. I think both have attributes that make one a better fit in a particular situation than the other. For example the listening area upstairs is quite small. The down firing 10 seems to fit well in there. I can hide it behind the TV stand and not worry about flecting surfaces. My hardwood floors seem fine. I don't think that one subwoofer style is inherently superior to the other, it depends on the specific application.

    Da Worfster
  • 03-04-2004, 12:44 PM
    Woochifer
    A lot of support on this board around the $500 price point for mail order models like the Adire Rava, Hsu VTF-2, and SVS offerings. After doing some research on subs, I decided that I would go with a sealed box design because the low end tapers off more gradually than a comparable ported design. You lose some output, but gain more low end extension. And subjectively, some people say that's more "musical" sounding than the steeper drop-off that you see with ported designs.

    At the time I bought my sub, the only option in that (my) price range was the Adire Rava, so I took a chance and bought one. It works very well and has great low end extension, with more than enough punch for home theater and tight sound. However, in order to get the bass to sound right, I had to use a parametric equalizer to eliminate severe room-induced peaks that made the unit sound unbearably boomy out of the box. Keep in mind that my room acoustics are such that any subwoofer would have had the same issues.

    Since I bought my sub, B&W has switched their entire subwoofer lineup over to a sealed box design, and Atlantic Technology has introduced some lower priced sealed subs as well. So, there are more options out there now if you decide to go with a sealed box. If you don't want to chance it with a mail order model, you should check these out. But, no matter what model you go with, the setup is essential -- identifying the crossover point (if you're not letting your receiver handle the bass management), placing the sub, setting the levels, deciding whether to high pass the speaker output or use the subwoofer output from the receiver, etc. And the room acoustics are equally vital. At the very least, you should get SPL meter and use low frequency test tones to flag any huge peaks that your room might be causing. If you can identify problem frequencies, then you should get a parametric equalizer like the Behringer Feedback Destroyer ($120) to correct those problems. In my case, the equalizer made the difference between keeping a sub that I'm happy with, and returning the unit.